Beebo Brink

My neighborhood is a mix of older, house-proud home owners and slum lord/absentee landlords who will rent to just about anyone who is breathing. This is an uneasy mix at best, as you can imagine.

Within the last few months two rental houses on our street have gone through a tenant change and both new tenants have a large brood of young children who run about pretty much unsupervised. Mrs. Beebo has been cleaning up wrappers and bottles and broken toys off our sidewalk and street almost daily, she's been chasing them off when they throw rocks at the side of our house or practice skateboard stunts off our cement risers. Today she found a few of them actually IN our front yard -- which is fenced and gated -- tearing up a flowering plant that she was growing for seed.

Attempts to discuss these intrusions with one mother have ended up in Mrs. Beebo and said woman yelling at each other from opposite sides of the street, to no avail. And now the fight has moved indoors because Mrs. Beebo feels that my tone is not "sufficiently supportive" when we discuss this issue.

I will be the first to admit that I do not like confrontations with virtual strangers and that I'm not going to look enthusiastically blood-thirsty during a conversation in which we discuss possible ways to deal with Destructive Spawn running rampant through our neighborhood, but I must point out in my defense that I rammed down my own instinct to simply ignore the entire issue (apparently not well enough). On the other hand, I did argue quite vehemently that calling Social Services was not appropriate since the mother's inattention did not qualify as "neglect" despite Mrs. Beebo's own standards in that regard.

I'm at the "this is annoying" end of the spectrum. Granted, I don't pick up the trash and I don't have a vested interest in a dead nasturtium. But even if I were over on Mrs. Beebo's "call the police!!" side of the scale, I have no solutions to offer short of waiting this out until they move.

So does anyone have any ideas for me to offer up (possibly without attribution, if they're really good ideas) to make me seem more supportive?

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Kokoro Fasching

Once they come into the yard and start messing with things, it is a small step to mess with inside the house. Contact the police for trespassing, and if it continues, then yes, contact social services.

Also contact the landlord, and let them know what is happening, and remind them that they can be held legally liable for any damage their renters do to your property.

Fluttercat

I admit. I'm a horrible person. My first instinct was bb gun loaded with salt pellets. Kokoro's idea sounds like a better idea though.

Darkley

Wait until the dust settles, and try and talk to the parents quietly and calmly first

If that fails, go to landlord and destroy them

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Eliza Wrigglesworth

What Kodoro said seems like the only way to go really.

I'd call the landlord first and let them know that you'll be reporting all trespassing, damages, and litter staring on a certain date if he/she doesn't do something about it. Then I'd follow through and really do it.

I've had neighbors like that too, and I can tell you from experience that it'll only get worse. Plus Mrs. Beebo's sanity is probably on the line.

Good luck!

*eta: Plus, if you can find some like-minded neighbors for backup that'd be even better.

Beebo Brink

Apparently I'm terminally naive for thinking that is a disproportionate response to a couple of 7 year old girls picking flowers a bit too enthusiastically.

This might have somewhat more chance of success if the landlord obviously didn't give a crap, but if the legal liability is valid, that could provide some leverage.

Darkley

I've found in life, to avoid having neighbours from hell is to BE the neighbour from hell

true story

Anya Ristow

Even if you can get the mothers on your side, will the kids obey their mothers' orders? You might have better luck being the cool neighbors they have no desire to annoy than the crazy old farts who have laid down the law.

bronxelf

Beebo-

The actual problem isn't how annoying the kids are or aren't.
It's not even that the parents are terminal douchewookies.

The problem *ACTUALLY* is, if one of the kids gets HURT whilst on your property, they can at least make an attempt to sue your ass to kingdom come, and given what you've said about the adults in this situation, they would no doubt do exactly that.

I get that your yard is fenced and gated. Doesn't matter- you'd still be embroiled in a legal fiasco you can ill afford. I agree- the kids MUST stay off your property.

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Galen McGinnis

I have thought of and dismissed many ideas as most, strike that, all would most likely be illegal outside of Texas. Not sure about their landlord being responsible for any of their actions, much less those of a seven year olds, hell parents aren't held accountable for their own progeny.

I'd suggest hiring this guy to sit on the porch and look menacing, and repeating "get off my lawn"



I imagine he's looking for work.

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"When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout." Marcus in Doctorows' Homeland.

Beebo Brink

This much I agree with completely. The question is how?

This time Mrs. Beebo (who is very gentle with the kids themselves) simply told them they had to go play in their own yard. Next time, I suppose we need to go together to the mother in question and state adamantly that her children must not come into our yard.

That still won't keep them out if she 1) doesn't care, or 2) has no authority over them.

Escalation point #2: Their landlord.

I guess we'll go that far and then see what happens.

bronxelf

Document. Everything.

Gabriell Anatra

I recall, growing up, that we had at one time a tall thorn hedge, an electric fence, and a razorwire fence bordering our property.

Why yes, we did have a bad reputation too.

And on occasion we actually deserved it. I'd go with Kokoro's suggestion too. The razorwire may be a later option if needed.

Nika Talaj

lol. "Get off my lawn" is a joke for a reason - it's so futile. Think about it, DICKENS wrote about this!

If Mrs. Beebo is willing to play along and be a bit of a villain you could "good cop/bad cop" and possibly make your household less of a target. Say, you take over some cupcakes and explain to them that Mrs. Beebo is not only a gardener, but in a fragile state of health (whatever! make something up!) and so is liable to get upset when her peaceful yard is disrupted. Apologize for this sad fact, and then let them know that therefore you'll and she be asking their adorable daughters to go elsewhere whenever you see them on your property. But you hope they'll be by to trick-or-treat. And be sure you have good treats.

The landlord is not going to be interested in disrupting relations with his tenant unless they set a fire or something. Nevertheless, it would be good to start a paper trail on this, so I'd also send him a letter letting him know that you are concerned that his tenant's kids are trespassing and may be endangering themselves by doing so. Plus they are messing up other's yards.

Make sure your neighbors know the landlords' name and address.

Brianna Ort

With pictures. Little heathens don't know enough to avoid such evidence, even to the point of posing.

Nephilaine Protagonist

i'm seconding the good cop/bad cop routine. i'm looking forward to my first opportunity to deploy this technique.

"See, I don't mind so much, but my husband? that six ft 5 giant with shoulders a yard wide? HE minds. a lot."

Nevermind that I am the one more likely to lose my shit and get confrontational with a bad neighbor, he LOOKS more intimidating!

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Kira Zobel

Cameras and embarrassing traps laid out to capture and stick it on youtube!

No, really though, best bet is the police. Good luck with everything.

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Moo.

Beebo Brink

I started with bronxelf's excellent suggestion* that we must document everything that happens and this has been received very well indeed. For one thing, it gives Mrs. Beebo something to DO about the situation, which appeals her natural inclination to always stay in motion. It also lets me off the hook for a few days as she builds the documentation.











* I totally passed this off as my own idea. Many thanks for making me look good; I need it more than you do.

Robert Jung

At first it sounded like you were dealing with juvenile delinquent punks ;-) but I think it's a bit diffrent with 7 year olds, although it still needs to stop.

Is there a "neighborhood arbitration group" in your city? They may be able to help

Void

since there's already been a yelling match, talking isn't going to work, because even if you could get to a calm discussion, you'd be in a position of contrition, even though you were the wronged party. a polite letter asking for some changes might work. I suggest you write it, since you're less likely to at this point to write something demanding or inflamatory...

If not, escalate... if they tear up your property, it's obvious they aren't going to treat the landlords any better... so inform the landlord (and let the neighors know you are doing so), and let them know that several other local residents are considering legal options. no joy there? next step is police... better if it's some you know that can by unofficially and have a word. Social services is a last resort, and requires strong evidence, otherwise if they come out and find nothing wrong, they'll likely blow off any future complaints. simply running around the neighborhood unsupervised isn't likely to get their attention... that's what kids are supposed to do.

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- These eyes can do more than see

Beebo Brink

I said "young children" in my OP and that seems to have been overlooked. I think the oldest in these marauding bands is all of 9 years old, and most of them are in the 6-7 year old range, if not younger. Personally, I think they're messy, self-absorbed and inconsiderate in the way all rambunctious children tend to be. They are not (yet) JDs.

The mothers let them run wild in the way a lot of children do around here. I'm more concerned that some toddler is going to get injured or killed because of darting out into the street or mauled by a pit bull that breaks loose from someone's back yard.



Sorry, but we're talking a working class neighborhood in West Virginia, the poor one where the city dumps their methadone clinic and other "outreach" programs that they wouldn't dare locate in "good" neighborhoods. We don't have fancy big-city innovations like arbitration groups.

Beebo Brink

The last tenants who lived across the street stuffed about 20 people (2 on the lease) into the apartment and tore holes in the porch and smashed beer bottles in the yard during their drunken weekend benders. Personally, I think we're better off with the mother and kids, even though the kids litter our sidewalk and the drunks stayed on their side of the street. I suspect the landlord also considers this a step up.

I'm not sure I consider one dead nasturtium as "torn up property" and although I share Mrs. Beebo's concern for our sidewalk integrity, so far it's not been chipped by the skateboards, so that also falls short of the mark in my estimation.

Before we threaten legal action, I would want to discuss that option with a town lawyer. Not quite there yet, and I hope we can stop short of that point.

Aliselia Aeon

Personally, my primary concern would be liability (other than the irritation factor). What if one of the kids gets hurt on your property.

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"Push 100cc of Social Skills, stat!" ~Casey Pelous

Beebo Brink

Other than the liability issue (which is a very good reason to keep the kids out of our yard), I'm obviously not taking the other transgressions with the appropriate degree of seriousness. I can't say that everyone siding with Mrs. Beebo's perspective has appreciably sobered me up, but at the very least you have convinced me that I'm the one stepping to the tune of a different drummer and that Mrs. Beebo's reaction falls within the norm of contemporary standards.

The feedback is very much appreciated. But Ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh, don't tell Mrs. Beebo I was never really onboard....

Myradyl

As liability issues, behavioural limits, and landlord/legal channels were addressed, this may sound a tad kooky but I thought of some community building exercises. Sounds like the children have boundless energy. Maybe the moms could also use moments of respite to redirect said energy levels. As it's said, it takes a village.

Might not be feasible in your area or with the population there, but for what it's worth:

-in some neighbourhoods, regular community events are organized between neighbours, like shutting down the street to have a street dance/picnic/plant a flower/neighbourly pot luck/ insert other fun activity
- joint community beautification (small fun projects like everybody plants a flower, or small groups organize to pick up discarded trash on the street, wearing gloves and having pickup tools or a shovel to nab stray flotsam)
- organizing neighbourhood watch, to help all families, look out for the innocents, and band together as communities (could also incorporate street safety tips for the kids and moms, via community police liaisons presenting educational info to neighbourhoods)

This certainly isn't all inclusive and is merely a starting point at best.

I don't know what sort of neighbourhood activities, community watch, or 'how do we all squeeze in one more responsibility onto our overloaded platters!' events you may already have. Hope this might offer a kooky idea or two.