Logo

Sooz Pascale · 01-29-2009, 05:46 PM

What is the general consensus on whether or not to tell people who are friends, but not likely romantic partners? If they are to be told when and how much?

In SL generally [not SLU that I can see] some people would like us to go through SL with the equivilant of the infamous pink triangle pinned permanently to our profiles and others don't think its ANYONE's business.

Of course just about every frequent reader of SLU knows about me. However, when I make a new friend in world and our friendship gets close enough to exchange personal or intimate information, I usually tell the other person. I haven't had too many problems by this. By that time they usually realize that I am not jusst some game playing guy trying to bamboozle someone.

What are your opinions?

Sooz

Ingrid N · 01-29-2009, 05:53 PM

RL info should be given out whenever you feel comfortable about it. If someone thinks you were lying by omission because you didn't immediately disclose your RL status, well, that's their problem. They're probably not hot, 20 and 8 feet tall in RL, either.

But I think your situation is very different from some guy playing a female avatar anyway.

Sooz Pascale · 01-29-2009, 06:22 PM

Thanks, Ingrid.

My situation IS different and most people who think about a bit realize it. However, not everyone feels the same way.

My new g/f and I were talking last night, she is attracted to transgendered women. She told me that when we first met, I was NOT what she expected, that the tg people she met or at least the ones who self identified as such were VERY eager to "jump her" and get her into bed almost immediately. I was very reticent and it took about a week of seduction for her to get me there.

Sooz

Lewis Luminos · 01-29-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sooz Pascale

What is the general consensus on whether or not to tell people who are friends, but not likely romantic partners? If they are to be told when and how much?

Everyone on SLU already knows about me I guess. As for anyone else, it depends on the circumstances I meet them. If I'm at the TRC or some similar place I'll be upfront about it (otherwise why would I even be there?) but in a regular place, I don't think it's necessary to broach the subject. If they read my profile properly they'll see it. If they don't, it's their loss.

Sooz Pascale · 01-29-2009, 06:27 PM

Yes, good point Lewis. I don't have anything about it in my profile generally. The night I met my girlfriend we were at a speed dating event where you change dance partners every 15 minutes. Just for that event I put it in just to save time on the disclosure problem if someone wasn't interested in anyone like me, which is fine.

The second person I danced with liked transgendered women and said so in her profile. We've been dating, now exclusively, ever since.

Sooz

**Io Zeno** · 01-29-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceres Eilde

*raises hand*

That was me.

My 15 minutes of net.fame.

No way. You wrote that?

**Io Zeno** · 01-29-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

HOUSEPLANTS OF GOR

The spider plant cringed as its owner brought forth the watering can. "I am a spider plant!" it cried indignantly. "How dare you water me before my time! Guards!" it called. "Guards!"

Borin, its owner, placed the watering can on the table and looked at it. "You will be watered," he said.

"You do not dare to water me!" laughed the plant.

"You will be watered," said Borin.

"Do not water me!" wept the plant.

"You will be watered," said Borin.

I watched this exchange. Truly, I believed the plant would be watered. It was plant, and on Gor it had no rights. Perhaps on Earth, in its permissive society, which distorts the true roles of all beings, which forces both plant and waterer to go unhappy and constrained, which forbids the fulfillment of owner and houseplant, such might not happen. Perhaps there, it would not be watered. But it was on Gor now, and would undoubtedly feel its true place, that of houseplant. It was plant. It would be watered at will. Such is the way with plants.

Borin picked up the watering can, and muchly watered the plant. The plant cried out. "No, Master! Do not water me!" The master continued to water the plant. "Please, Master," begged the plant, "do not water me!" The master continued to water the plant. It was plant. It could be watered at will.

The plant sobbed muchly as Borin laid down the watering can. It was not pleased. Too, it was wet. But this did not matter. It was plant.

"You have been well watered," said Borin.

"Yes," said the plant, "I have been well watered." Of course, it could be watered by its master at will.

"I have watered you well," said Borin.

"Yes, master," said the plant. "You have watered your plant well. I am plant, and as such I should be watered by my master."

The cactus plant next to the spider plant shuddered. It attempted to cover its small form with its small arms and small needles. "I am plant," it said wonderingly. "I am of Earth, but for the first time, I feel myself truly plantlike. On Earth, I was able to control my watering. I often scorned those who would water me. But they were weak, and did not see my scorn for what it was, the weak attempt of a small plant to protect itself. Not one of the weak Earth waterers would dare to water a plant if it did not wish it. But on Gor," it shuddered, "on Gor it is different. Here, those who wish to water will water their plants as they wish. But strangely, I feel myself most plantlike when I am at the mercy of a strong Gorean master, who may water m e as he pleases."

"I will now water you," said Borin, the cactus's Gorean master.

The cactus did not resist being watered. Perhaps it was realizing that such watering was its master's to control. Too, perhaps it knew that this master was far superior to those of Earth, who would not water it if it did not wish to be watered.

The cactus's watering had been finished. The spider plant looked at it.

"I have been well watered," it said.

"I, too, have been well watered," said the cactus.

"My master has watered me well," said the spider plant.

"My master, too, has watered me well," said the cactus.

"I am to be placed in a hanging basket on the porch," said the spider plant.

"I, too, am to be placed in a hanging basket on the porch," said the cactus.

"I wish you well," said the spider plant.

"I, too, wish you well," said the cactus.

"Tal," said the spider plant.

"Tal, too," said the cactus.

I did not think that the spider plant would object to being watered by its master again. For it realized that it was plant, and that here, unlike on Earth, it was likely to be owned and watered by many masters.

Brenda Connolly · 01-29-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sooz Pascale

What is the general consensus on whether or not to tell people who are friends, but not likely romantic partners? If they are to be told when and how much?

In SL generally [not SLU that I can see] some people would like us to go through SL with the equivilant of the infamous pink triangle pinned permanently to our profiles and others don't think its ANYONE's business.

Of course just about every frequent reader of SLU knows about me. However, when I make a new friend in world and our friendship gets close enough to exchange personal or intimate information, I usually tell the other person. I haven't had too many problems by this. By that time they usually realize that I am not jusst some game playing guy trying to bamboozle someone.

What are your opinions?

Sooz

I don't ask for any personal information, most of it is unimportant to me. Some will be revealed in due time just through conversation in most cases, but if not fine. And I take whatever is given at face value. A far as I am concerned you are what you say you are.

Ned Easterwood · 01-30-2009, 06:52 AM

This is SL, not Facebook. It's not a dating service. Why should it matter?

Lewis Luminos · 01-30-2009, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned Easterwood

This is SL, not Facebook. It's not a dating service. Why should it matter?

The trouble is, for a lot of people (obviously not most of us), SL IS a dating service and nothing else. The rate at which some people leap into partnerships is evidence of that.

**Beebo Brink** · 01-30-2009, 07:10 AM

There isn't any general consensus, which is what makes SL relationships so perilous.

The conflicting assumptions and expectations are a minefield to be navigated and to be negotiated. I've found it very useful to never assume anything about the typist behind an avatar, and to take any statements about who they are as suggestions rather than absolute truth.

As a new acquaintanceship begins to form, I do my best to figure out how that particular person uses SL. Sometimes they see it as I do -- an immersion into a shared creative narrative -- and at other times it's just a 3D version of Facebook. For people I like, I will do my best accommodate either view.

Chalice Yao · 01-30-2009, 07:10 AM

21 pages? Oo This is still going on. Oh boy.

* SL info is SL info, RL info is RL info.
* The avatar is a display of mind, not the body.
* It's up to each person to reveal, or not to reveal any RL information.
* If a person does not want to reveal any RL info upon being asked, it should be respected.
* Nobody has an obligation to tell anybody about their RL info. Not friends, not even partners.
* If one gets angry for not getting any RL info, they should take a step back and ponder why it is so important to them. No matter if they aquire it or not, it will still be the same person interacting with them in the virtual world.
* If one gets angry about the RL info they hear, they shouldn't have asked. They probably projected completely false hopes into the other. Which also means they don't care about the actual person much.
* The only situation where the RL revealing person is to blame, is when they blatantly lied about it before.
* When they lied about it, be aware that they might just have been scared shitless of revealing a condition, gender, etc. due to closeminded people, and losing friends in the first place. Bad move, but fear is a great motivator to do dumb stuff.
* Learn to like and love what you get, not what you want.
* Are there really any questions left about this?

Lewis Luminos · 01-30-2009, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chalice Yao

21 pages? Oo This is still going on. Oh boy.

* SL info is SL info, RL info is RL info.
* The avatar is a display of mind, not the body.
* It's up to each person to reveal, or not to reveal any RL information.
* If a person does not want to reveal any RL info upon being asked, it should be respected.
* Nobody has an obligation to tell anybody about their RL info. Not friends, not even partners.
* If one gets angry for not getting any RL info, they should take a step back and ponder why it is so important to them. No matter if they aquire it or not, it will still be the same person interacting with them in the virtual world.
* If one gets angry about the RL info they hear, they shouldn't have asked. They probably projected completely false hopes into the other. Which also means they don't care about the actual person much.
* The only situation where the RL revealing person is to blame, is when they blatantly lied about it before.
* When they lied about it, be aware that they might just have been scared shitless of revealing a condition, gender, etc. due to closeminded people, and losing friends in the first place. Bad move, but fear is a great motivator to do dumb stuff.
* Learn to like and love what you get, not what you want.
* Are there really any questions left about this?

That should be in the TOS...

Its a pity not everyone agrees.

**Beebo Brink** · 01-30-2009, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chalice Yao

* The avatar is a display of mind, not the body.
....
* The only situation where the RL revealing person is to blame, is when they blatantly lied about it before.
* When they lied about it, be aware that they might just have been scared shitless of revealing a condition, gender, etc. due to closeminded people, and losing friends in the first place. Bad move, but fear is a great motivator to do dumb stuff.

Fervent agreement to every single point Chalice listed, but these especially.

I find it so sad when I hear that people have cut off friends for "lying" without any regard for the motivations behind that action. Malicious deception is not the same as someone who is reluctant to break their own immersion or is fearful of reactions.

One TG friend of mine eventually, tearfully, confessed that she was male in RL even though she had implied otherwise. As far as I'm concerned, it was an act of courage to finally reveal that part of herself. She risked not only the loss of the friendship, but a loss of her own sense of being a woman in SL. If the way I reacted to her had changed after that revelation, her fears would have been confirmed.

Polymorphous · 01-30-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sooz Pascale

What is the general consensus on whether or not to tell people who are friends, but not likely romantic partners? If they are to be told when and how much?

In SL generally [not SLU that I can see] some people would like us to go through SL with the equivilant of the infamous pink triangle pinned permanently to our profiles and others don't think its ANYONE's business.

Of course just about every frequent reader of SLU knows about me. However, when I make a new friend in world and our friendship gets close enough to exchange personal or intimate information, I usually tell the other person. I haven't had too many problems by this. By that time they usually realize that I am not jusst some game playing guy trying to bamboozle someone.

What are your opinions?

Sooz

i eventually settled in to a similiar approach. if i thought i would be getting close to somebody, i disclosed. it turned out to be a non-issue in many instances, and the once when somebody said it mattered, was no big deal either.

but i tended to hang out with groups of people where tg is more common.

if i am ever back in sl more regularly meeting new people, i would probably disclose more up front and just be done with the truth and not waste time wondering if people would accept me as tg. i am tired of being afraid of what people might think, and in sl there are not the same risks like getting beat up by transphobic and homophobic assholes.

Solanghe Sarlo · 01-30-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned Easterwood

This is SL, not Facebook. It's not a dating service. Why should it matter?

Right. But sometimes these situations just happen. I managed to get through almost 3 years in SL without "dating" another typist and then all of sudden, there it was. You know this Ned as well as anybody.

Referencing the question posed by Sooz, the only info I care about when I meet a new friend is time zone. Whatever pixel representation they present to me is what I am happy to accept.

But now that something deeper (romantic) is happening between me and another typist, I prefer that this person is female, lesbian (and single cause imho even it it's online, it's still cheating) as that's what I personally am comfortable with. Different strokes for different folks.

I don't want to review the last 10 years of her tax return. Geez.

**Beebo Brink** · 01-30-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solanghe Sarlo

But now that something deeper is happening between me and another typist, I prefer that this person is female, lesbian (and single cause imho even it it's online, it's still cheating) as that's what I personally am comfortable with. Different strokes for different folks.

That is a perfectly valid preference. It may not mirrior my own approach to SL, but as I stated above I recognize that there are many different ways in which we all deal with the smoke and mirrors of SL. The key is knowing our own boundaries and those with whom we interact.

Ceres Eilde · 01-30-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno

No way. You wrote that?

I did. It was after finals in December of 1994. I was goofing with friends on IRC, who knew I'd read a bunch of the Gor books, and we were talking about how the titles were all "_____ of Gor." Then one of them said she had to water her houseplants, and I took that and ran with it.

I read the books because I saw a Boris Vallejo cover, and it was hawt, so I had to see what inspired it. The books were cheap as hell at the used bookstore, and I was too shy to buy actual porn, so...

Reading them went like this:

Blah blah blah all women want to be slaves omg this guy is an asshole blah blah blah he just doesn't shut UP blah blah this is some of the worst writing I've ever seen blah blah a single sentence shouldn't go a page and a half unless you're Tom Wolfe blah OH HEY HOT SCENE.

It was like a trainwreck. A long, long trainwreck.

I ended up tossing most of the books, but I still have "Dancer of Gor," because the POV char is a librarian and so am I.

ETA: I created a Houseplants costume for a convention and won a prize. I performed again at a con, where my sweetie was sitting directly in front of John Norman. Apparently he didn't react. I thought there might be a pic somewhere online, but I can't find one.

Ned Easterwood · 01-30-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solanghe Sarlo

Right. But sometimes these situations just happen. I managed to get through almost 3 years in SL without "dating" another typist and then all of sudden, there it was. You know this Ned as well as anybody.

Referencing the question posed by Sooz, the only info I care about when I meet a new friend is time zone. Whatever pixel representation they present to me is what I am happy to accept.

But now that something deeper (romantic) is happening between me and another typist, I prefer that this person is female, lesbian (and single cause imho even it it's online, it's still cheating) as that's what I personally am comfortable with. Different strokes for different folks.

I don't want to review the last 10 years of her tax return. Geez.

Yeah - I know - it happens. And that's when decisions are made - and sometimes it comes out badly.

My Facebook comment was really in response to Sooz, and the idea that RL information must be revealed up front. I have logged on as Bea, and gone out and about, to see what would happen. I've had guys ask about RL boyfriends right away, and want to know other, less personal, RL stuff.

It hasn't happened to me as Ned - but the women seem to be much less liable to ask that up front. They seem to be perfectly happy to dance and chat for an hour, without wanting to know RL info.

Solanghe Sarlo · 01-30-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned Easterwood

Yeah - I know - it happens. And that's when decisions are made - and sometimes it comes out badly.

My Facebook comment was really in response to Sooz, and the idea that RL information must be revealed up front. I have logged on as Bea, and gone out and about, to see what would happen. I've had guys ask about RL boyfriends right away, and want to know other, less personal, RL stuff.

It hasn't happened to me as Ned - but the women seem to be much less liable to ask that up front. They seem to be perfectly happy to dance and chat for an hour, without wanting to know RL info.

If you're just dancing and chatting, I'm not sure why anything personal would need to come up.

I've noticed that too though. Guys seem to ask personal stuff rather quickly. Why is that I wonder...

**Beebo Brink** · 01-30-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solanghe Sarlo

I've noticed that too though. Guys seem to ask personal stuff rather quickly. Why is that I wonder...

An impatience to get laid colliding violently with their fear of sexxoring another guy.

**Io Zeno** · 01-30-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceres Eilde

I did. It was after finals in December of 1994. I was goofing with friends on IRC, who knew I'd read a bunch of the Gor books, and we were talking about how the titles were all "_____ of Gor." Then one of them said she had to water her houseplants, and I took that and ran with it.

I read the books because I saw a Boris Vallejo cover, and it was hawt, so I had to see what inspired it. The books were cheap as hell at the used bookstore, and I was too shy to buy actual porn, so...

Reading them went like this:

Blah blah blah all women want to be slaves omg this guy is an asshole blah blah blah he just doesn't shut UP blah blah this is some of the worst writing I've ever seen blah blah a single sentence shouldn't go a page and a half unless you're Tom Wolfe blah OH HEY HOT SCENE.

It was like a trainwreck. A long, long trainwreck.

I ended up tossing most of the books, but I still have "Dancer of Gor," because the POV char is a librarian and so am I.

ETA: I created a Houseplants costume for a convention and won a prize. I performed again at a con, where my sweetie was sitting directly in front of John Norman. Apparently he didn't react. I thought there might be a pic somewhere online, but I can't find one.

That is only the most famous Gorean parody ever, I am honored by your presence.

Polymorphous · 01-30-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beebo Brink

An impatience to get laid colliding violently with their fear of sexxoring another guy.

wonderfully succinct summary!

Asher Bertrand · 01-30-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno

That is only the most famous Gorean parody ever, I am honored by your presence.

I think of it every time I water my plants. Which, sadly for my plants, is not very often.

Cincia Singh · 01-30-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brenda Connolly

... I take whatever is given at face value. A far as I am concerned you are what you say you are.

Exactly. My perspective is probably skewed because I'm bi, but someone's RL particulars really don't interest me. What interests me is how you behave and how much fun you are in SL. And while flirting is fun and I suppose I do it more than most as a matter of course, SL sex for me is quite rare, and becoming rarer over time.

01-29-2009, 05:46 PM	#501 (permalink)
Sooz Pascale Long Distance Sailor Ribald Lewdness Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,751 My Mood: SL Join Date: January 27, 2007	What is the general consensus on whether or not to tell people who are friends, but not likely romantic partners? If they are to be told when and how much? In SL generally [not SLU that I can see] some people would like us to go through SL with the equivilant of the infamous pink triangle pinned permanently to our profiles and others don't think its ANYONE's business. Of course just about every frequent reader of SLU knows about me. However, when I make a new friend in world and our friendship gets close enough to exchange personal or intimate information, I usually tell the other person. I haven't had too many problems by this. By that time they usually realize that I am not jusst some game playing guy trying to bamboozle someone. What are your opinions? Sooz __________________ Nothing sickens me more than the closed door of a library - Barbara Tuchman

01-29-2009, 05:53 PM	#502 (permalink)
Ingrid N Undercompensating 4 ears to hear you better Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,214 My Mood: Business: liminal. Blog Entries: 1	RL info should be given out whenever you feel comfortable about it. If someone thinks you were lying by omission because you didn't immediately disclose your RL status, well, that's their problem. They're probably not hot, 20 and 8 feet tall in RL, either. But I think your situation is very different from some guy playing a female avatar anyway. __________________ liminal.: Skins & AOs! More fun than a subincision!

01-30-2009, 06:52 AM	#509 (permalink)
Ned Easterwood Just trying to get by Milana's dom and Rhonda's babydoll Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Detroit, Mi. Posts: 16,795 My Mood: SL Join Date: 5/4/2007 Blog Entries: 15	This is SL, not Facebook. It's not a dating service. Why should it matter? __________________ Ned

01-30-2009, 07:10 AM	#511 (permalink)
Beebo Brink Uppity Alt SLU Supporter I'm the woman your mother warned you about. Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,875 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 19 SL Join Date: October 2006 Business: Brazen Women Shapes and Skins	There isn't any general consensus, which is what makes SL relationships so perilous. The conflicting assumptions and expectations are a minefield to be navigated and to be negotiated. I've found it very useful to never assume anything about the typist behind an avatar, and to take any statements about who they are as suggestions rather than absolute truth. As a new acquaintanceship begins to form, I do my best to figure out how that particular person uses SL. Sometimes they see it as I do -- an immersion into a shared creative narrative -- and at other times it's just a 3D version of Facebook. For people I like, I will do my best accommodate either view. __________________ Browse http://www.BrazenWomen.com

01-30-2009, 07:10 AM	#512 (permalink)
Chalice Yao The Purple Kinda at work. Somewhat. Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Somewhere purple, Germany Posts: 3,096 My Mood:	21 pages? Oo This is still going on. Oh boy. * SL info is SL info, RL info is RL info. * The avatar is a display of mind, not the body. * It's up to each person to reveal, or not to reveal any RL information. * If a person does not want to reveal any RL info upon being asked, it should be respected. * Nobody has an obligation to tell anybody about their RL info. Not friends, not even partners. * If one gets angry for not getting any RL info, they should take a step back and ponder why it is so important to them. No matter if they aquire it or not, it will still be the same person interacting with them in the virtual world. * If one gets angry about the RL info they hear, they shouldn't have asked. They probably projected completely false hopes into the other. Which also means they don't care about the actual person much. * The only situation where the RL revealing person is to blame, is when they blatantly lied about it before. * When they lied about it, be aware that they might just have been scared shitless of revealing a condition, gender, etc. due to closeminded people, and losing friends in the first place. Bad move, but fear is a great motivator to do dumb stuff. * Learn to like and love what you get, not what you want. * Are there really any questions left about this? __________________ "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" - George Carlin

01-29-2009, 06:22 PM	#503 (permalink)
Sooz Pascale Long Distance Sailor Ribald Lewdness Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,751 My Mood: SL Join Date: January 27, 2007	Thanks, Ingrid. My situation IS different and most people who think about a bit realize it. However, not everyone feels the same way. My new g/f and I were talking last night, she is attracted to transgendered women. She told me that when we first met, I was NOT what she expected, that the tg people she met or at least the ones who self identified as such were VERY eager to "jump her" and get her into bed almost immediately. I was very reticent and it took about a week of seduction for her to get me there. Sooz

01-29-2009, 06:27 PM	#505 (permalink)
Sooz Pascale Long Distance Sailor Ribald Lewdness Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,751 My Mood: SL Join Date: January 27, 2007	Yes, good point Lewis. I don't have anything about it in my profile generally. The night I met my girlfriend we were at a speed dating event where you change dance partners every 15 minutes. Just for that event I put it in just to save time on the disclosure problem if someone wasn't interested in anyone like me, which is fine. The second person I danced with liked transgendered women and said so in her profile. We've been dating, now exclusively, ever since. Sooz

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Logo

Site Navigation