Beebo Brink

When I built the Duchess, my SL homage to lesbian bars, I didn't really have a long-term goal in mind. It was meant as more of a social/political statement than the start of a business venture. The growing popularity of the place has been a steep learning curve for me because I've never been a club person, much less had any experience in running one. (The irony of this situation is pretty amusing...)

Currently, the most pressing issue I'm facing is how to deal with disruptive personalities. Griefers are fairly easy to spot and they earn a swift kick/ban off the island. But there are some customers who aren't griefers, it's not their intention to create trouble, they just have abrasive personalities. I'm loathe to ban someone just because they can't seem to get along with everyone in the room, but I've lost people I really like due to people I'm not so very fond of continuing to visit the bar.

Where do you draw the line? How do you draw it?

If I hear that one of my problematic customers has been banned from other clubs, is that enough grounds for my bannning them? I really don't want to have to dig through "she said/she said" drama at other locations to make decisions for my place. On the other hand, it does point to a continued pattern of behavior that might escalate.

Comments, insights, and advice would be most welcome.

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Christina Arriaga

I've posted a strict "Code of Conduct" which is automatically handed out to anyone new to the place. If it is violated, they get banned.

It may seem harsh, but I've learned the little things can escalate very, very quickly so better to stop something early than to let it get out of control and turn patrons away.

Dancien Graves

Now that you have started to gain popularity. It may be time to sit and think about a long term goal. Everything has a beginning, middle, and possible end.


Working and running SL Clubs is like Bizarro land. Everything you'd do to run a real life club does not apply here and it usually the opposite. The best advice I can give you is do what feels right. It's your place, you pay the bills. Everybody else is just visiting.

Your last sentence answered your question for you. Keep the people you like, to hell with the other ones.

The line is exactly where you need it to be at the time, and you need to be vocal about it.

Yes. it indicates a pattern of behavior that is unlikely to change. Also, it's your place. You can ban somebody because you hate their shoes.

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Lucifer Baphomet

In my eyes the best SL "Clubs" are like the owners houses in a way....

It's more like going to a friends party than a club.

So my answer Beebs, is treat it as your house.

Think of what you'd tolerate in your living room, and use that as your guide.

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Kyllie Wylie

Trouble makers come in a lot of shapes and sizes. some dont *think* they are but like you say are just contrary personalities.

Best thing to do in my opinion is take them aside and explain to them they are upsetting people and to stop it... give them a chance... let them know they are "on report" and if you get another complaint they will be banned.

Some dont even realize what they are doing is upsetting and change, others will laugh in your face and disapear, others will get worse and then you have to ban them.

I would never go on what happened in another club, often this sort of thing can be a simple clash of personalities that will not be present in your club.

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Cindy Claveau

Welcome to the cruel world of club management, Beebo.

You've hit upon the most difficult aspect among all the difficult aspects - how to mold the club's personality the way you envision it without limiting growth or alienating people.

I won't try to claim that I know the answer - my own efforts in this area were, frankly, a mixed success. I tried to remind my managers that I wanted them to enforce our rules of conduct, but to do so courteously.

What you're really after here isn't enforcement as much as behavior modification. A gentle approach to correction (keeping cautions in IMs, for example), having you and your staff act as behavior models, and generally encouraging positive behavior rather than stressing negative discouragement of other behaviors is the ideal I always tried to emulate.

But it doesn't always work. The reality of it is that you're going to alienate some people and make enemies of others, and that's part of the territory. If you can manage to retain a good core of well-behaved members who don't need coaching to fit your vision, that goes a long way toward setting the tone of the club. At some point the immature ones tend to leave.

Envoy Costagravas

Aw, for craps sake, I've only been there a couple times. Get off my case, Beebo!








I loved Dan's line about the shoes...

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"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin

Beebo Brink

Yes, that was one of my first changes when the first drama hit me. I have a bar policy posted now that makes the principles clear. But there's no way I can write a policy that maintains "Don't get upset when you think you've been subjected to racial insults, even though you're so hypersentive that people just don't like you for who you are."

Beebo Brink

Yes, that's the core problem I'm grappling with now. Policy enforcement is fairly straightfoward, but there's such a wide range of behaviors that aren't as easily regulated. Behaviors I may find obnoxious or wearisome aren't really "wrong". I can't justify banning someone for excessive simpering or vulgar taste in clothing, for instance.

One of the strains is that I've bent over backwards trying to be impartial and not play favorites, so I do apply a different set of standards than I would to having visitors in my home. At home, I feel I have the right to be subjective about who can come into my personal space. At the bar I try to be as inclusive as possible, beyond the limits of my own preferences.

But based on many of the answers here, there may be more leeway for being capricious than I have allowed myself.

CoyoteMomiji

Beebs,

I trust your judgement implicitly. The people who you like who go to your club should, too.

Pull the asshats aside. Say, "this is what I see, this is what I perceive as your part in it, and these are my options. What do you think?"

See what they say. It's quite possible that they don't realize how they come off, even though it's PATENTLY FUCKING OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE ELSE.

Hope this helped at all.

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Slick closed until further notice.

Recidivist Sideways: YOU'LL TAKE MY ROUGH, BUTTERY FRIENDSHIP, AND YOU'LL LIKE IT

Cindy Claveau

Simpering, no. But there's just no excuse for vulgar clothing

Knowing you, Beebo, you probably err on the side of caution. And that's a good thing, I think. Uninvolved members are watching how you handle situations, for better or worse. If they see you banning folks for silly things they start to get uncomfortable. If they see you tolerating abrasive assholes, they generally just leave. It's easy to say there's a line to tow here, but that line is invisible and very subjective.

Maybe your role model should be Cris. He puts up with a lot here but still manages to come across as level-headed, fair and slow to anger.

Then once someone crosses the line, they're thrown into the Giant Pit Of Doom to burn for all eternity

Jessica Robertson

Beebo, it's YOUR house.

You're essentially asking, is X enough to throw someone out of my house? My friends and I don't like them.

In my opinion, you aren't running a business really, you have a hobby that you truly enjoy doing because of the strong social connections to your friends through that environment. It's not a business club... it's a social club. You, and your long time friends get to say who comes and who goes. If you're all pretty much in agreement that z doesn't really fit in and is driving long time members away, you have all the information you need to know about z.

Beebo Brink

Thank you, that is a different perspective than I've had, but probably a much more accurate one. And keeping that approach in mind will defintely help me sort through the next drama, because there alway will be a next one....

Isablan Neva

I agree with most everyone else. What keeps people coming back is other people and an enjoyable social atmosphere. If you are losing good people because of one person who can't play nice, that person has to go. Don't sacrifice good people in an attempt to be "fair" to the disruptive person. The disruptive person will not only run off good people, but they will also change the social dynamic because disruptive behavior is now condoned by management, which means other people will follow suit. If you have to ask someone to leave, then that's what you gotta do.

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SLU: I came for the community. I stayed for the derails.

Rosie Barthelmess

I agree with most of what's been said here too, Beebo. I pretty much insist on a drama-free environment, but there are people who are sort of attentionwhores and have a small dose of the crazy even though they aren't directly inflicting drama on people.

And what I'm finding lately is, people like that who need the focus on themselves all the time also tend to mistake being "nice" for being "dumb." That is to say, whether they choose to admit it or not they're sort of testing where the line is with you -- and you give them an inch, eventually they'll end up taking a mile.

I had one abrasive personality regular coming up to LoD for a while. I had multiple complaints from staff and guests about the person's rudeness. Just complete, oblivious, rudeness. Rude to staff, condescending to other guests, would throw a semi-hissy if things didn't go exactyl as they thought they should go -- I had a talk with her and she insisted she had NO idea what she was doing. So I was very, very clear with her what *I* perceived her actions were, and she kept doing them. Then she applied to work for me, and I told her that no, I couldn't hire her because she berated staff and dragged down the mood in the club even after she'd been asked to stop. She KEPT coming back and eventually was banned because she decided she'd only throw snits when I wasn't there, thinking I wouldn't 'find out.'

I wouldn't risk losing people who contribute to the atmosphere of your place just to try to be kind to someone who apparently has no problem with going aganist that grain. I think the best thing to do is talk to them, be clear of expectations, give them a chance to get with the program and then do what's best for you and your regulars.

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Owner/Designer, Sable Rose Jewelry
Gallinas (near The Shelter): http://slurl.com/secondlife/Gallinas/198/11/59
Filataponic @ Subtle Submission: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Filataponic/209/198/50

Manager & House DJ, Lounge of Dreams

http://skatoolaki.com/sablerose -- Sable Rose Jewelry's blog.
http://rosiebarthelmess.com-- my blog.

Trout Rated: 7.0
"You are evidence that a woman who is comfortable in her own skin has a definite advantage over those who are not."

Cindy Claveau

At least you own the place, Beebo. So the reins are in your hands.

As "Head Manager", I had a pair of my managers get into a junior high argument one night over one male guest's behavior. They started ejecting/banning each other, back and forth right in front of the rest of the members. I wasn't there or I might have acted unilaterally to make sure neither of them ever came back.

I was so incensed by that sort of unprofessional shennanigans I told the owner I wanted to fire them both. He declined because he didn't want to upset anybody (Even though *I* was pissed as hell).

That was about the time I realized that the stress level probably wasn't worth the return.

Sooz Pascale

I'm not nor ever been a bar/nightclub owner. I have many friends that are and, of course I frequent them.

You're got some excellent answers and comments here, but Isablan reall hit it in the "10 ring." I put in bold the BEST comment about this, IMHO, of this entire thread.

I have been a frequent visitor to the Duchess ans enjoy the atmosphere and the compant immensely. I've been remiss in the last two weeks or so due to....another interest. We will have to pay you a visit soon!!

I have only one ontoward incident there and it was quite sometime ago. You were there and you handled it swiftly, firmly and appropriately

Set a good example, hire good people who are on the same page with you and don't tolerate stupid, rude behavior. As the others have said, its your place, you pay for it, you make the rules.

See you soon!!!!

Sooz

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Nothing sickens me more than the closed door of a library - Barbara Tuchman

Willow Matthews

The only complaint I have about the Duchess of late is that every time I get there someone is ALREADY DANCING WITH BEEBS!!!!!



There. That made me feel better.

Sooz Pascale

Hint: Short skirts and fashionable attire usually get her attention, but you already DO that!!!

Sooz