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**Stroker Serpentine** · 08-30-2008, 01:19 AM

Marketing 101..listen to your cutomers.

I see this more and more. Unsuspecting sub-lessors packing every single scripted prim they can onto an OS sim. I get at least 3-4 calls a week for "My bed is broke". Only to readily recognize their issue.

When I try to explain to the tenant that their sim wont handle the resources that a full CPU sim will...the first thing they ALL say is "What is an Open Space Sim?"

Did LL really believe that people would take it upon themselves to be miserly with these parcels? Did they TRULY think that landlords would put in their charters "These parcels are cheaper because you cant put anything scripted on them"

So, I may not be a marketing guru, but I do know what the typical reaction is from the unsuspecting renter. It is not one of congeniatlity I can assure you. Just how long will this new resident stick around in SL when they find out they have been diddled?
(And not in a GOOD way)

I often wonder what the other connected (15) sim owners must feel when their 20 prim shack and 24 scripts lag like January molasses. Who do they turn to? Where is their angst directed.

How does this one bottlenecked OS server affect others? How do 2000 bottlenecked OS servers affect the grid?

This is the answer to affordable land? I am continually reminded of that Arizona oceanfont. Smoke and mirrors folks.

Brilliant..just f*ckin brilliant LL

=shakes head=

Colette Meiji · 08-30-2008, 01:24 AM

What are the effects of Scripts recompiled with the Mono in place?

Colette Meiji · 08-30-2008, 01:27 AM

3 clubs on an openspsce seems insane also.

Macphisto Angelus · 08-30-2008, 01:29 AM

One club on an open space is asking for it.

**Stroker Serpentine** · 08-30-2008, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

What are the effects of Scripts recompiled with the Mono in place?

Damned if I am going to sit and explain to an OS owner how to recompile every script on their sim to optimize for Mono.

These are accounts that are less than 90 days old. They are buying a piece of the "SL Dream".

As I noted above, the typical response is:

"What is an Open Space sim?"

Stephanie Misfit · 08-30-2008, 01:29 AM

Jesus.

I live on an open space. It's just me, a little house, a few plants and trees, a heap of spare prims and a handful of scripts. I would HATE to be sharing a server with sims like that.

Colette Meiji · 08-30-2008, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stroker Serpentine

Damned if I am going to sit and explain to an OS owner how to recompile every script on their sim to optimize for Mono.

These are accounts that are less than 90 days old. They are buying a piece of the "SL Dream".

As I noted above, the typical response is:

"What is an Open Space sim?"

Yes I am just wondering whats the future going to be like

If say all the scripts, including your beds were Mono --- would the performance improvement be enough to offset the fact that its Openspace?

Just having them change your bed over wouldn't solve their problem I am sure .. it would have to be Most/all of the sim's scripts.

**Stroker Serpentine** · 08-30-2008, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanie Misfit

Jesus.

I live on an open space. It's just me, a little house, a few plants and trees, a heap of spare prims and a handful of scripts. I would HATE to be sharing a server with sims like that.

Ahhh..but you are Stephanie.

So is everyone else in SL.

Colette Meiji · 08-30-2008, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanie Misfit

Jesus.

I live on an open space. It's just me, a little house, a few plants and trees, a heap of spare prims and a handful of scripts. I would HATE to be sharing a server with sims like that.

You might be ..

Remember its 4 to a core ..

Joshua Nightshade · 08-30-2008, 01:34 AM

It's 4 to a core, and 4 cores to a machine, so 16 sims on one.

However they're really good about segmenting them, that's improved astonishingly.

And prims are really not impacting on performance at all. The prim caps are arbitrary simply for making LL money in sales.

The only things that are bad on sims, open space or otherwise, are scripts and avatars.

**Stroker Serpentine** · 08-30-2008, 01:38 AM

Are there any prim worth having that aren't scripted?

/me *ducks*

Colette Meiji · 08-30-2008, 01:38 AM

3407 scripts isn't that a full sim's worth?

Joshua Nightshade · 08-30-2008, 01:47 AM

3047 is the number of scripted objects; an object can have more than one script in it though so it could be potentially higher.

I'm a shit scripter so I don't have many on my sim at all. 228 scripted objects, and that's probably one script per object. Most of those are a simple rotating script.

I personally haven't had much trouble on my open space. I was worried about it, and told that they had gotten much better at VMing them off, but still expected it to run like shit once they got popular.

My performance hasn't changed at all since I first got it, so either I'm somehow lucky enough to end up in clusters each time I reboot that are always low use or they really have split them off effectively.

Colette Meiji · 08-30-2008, 01:51 AM

so 3407 is a lot of scripted objects though

I mean how many prims does a OS sim even hold?

Joshua Nightshade · 08-30-2008, 01:51 AM

3750 prims total.

I don't think there's a limit on scripts though.

Colette Meiji · 08-30-2008, 01:55 AM

so by Strokers pictures .. 71 of the prims in the sim didn't have scripts.

Wildefire Walcott · 08-30-2008, 03:04 AM

Yah it's pretty nasty. The great majority of these folks cutting up openspaces aren't even hinting that there's anything different about their sims. There was a recent discussion about this, and LL REALLY needs to put something in the UI to make it clear that there are different kinds of sims. Right now you have to really know what openspaces are and how to identify them by prim math.

EDIT: Two Jiras related to this problem: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8768 and http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8770

Please vote!

Wildefire Walcott · 08-30-2008, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

so by Strokers pictures .. 71 of the prims in the sim didn't have scripts.

No, there's no relation between scripts and prims. The screenshot shows there are almost as many scripts as prims, but a single prim can have dozens of scripts. LOL, I'm very curious how stroker found a sim with zero IPS script performance though!

Dnate Mars · 08-30-2008, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildefire Walcott

No, there's no relation between scripts and prims. The screenshot shows there are almost as many scripts as prims, but a single prim can have dozens of scripts. LOL, I'm very curious how stroker found a sim with zero IPS script performance though!

In other words, none of the scripts were running

Joshua Nightshade · 08-30-2008, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildefire Walcott

No, there's no relation between scripts and prims. The screenshot shows there are almost as many scripts as prims, but a single prim can have dozens of scripts. LOL, I'm very curious how stroker found a sim with zero IPS script performance though!

Well that's not my understanding of the box, I was always told it's active scripted prims, not total scripts in the sim.

Wildefire Walcott · 08-30-2008, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

Well that's not my understanding of the box, I was always told it's active scripted prims, not total scripts in the sim.

From the screenshot, active objects = 323. That's the scripted rezzed objects. The Active Scripts counter counts every individual script, including scripts in HUDs and attachments of people visiting the sim. The Objects stat is just rezzed prims, scripted or otherwise, not counting attachments.

WarKirby Magojiro · 08-30-2008, 03:31 AM

I'm pretty sure that number is the total number of scripts, npot scripted objects.

Stroker, you need to put a warning in your products, now. I have some code for you.

Code:

check_openspace()
{
    integer actual_primcount = llGetParcelMaxPrims(llGetPos(), FALSE);
    integer supposed_primcount;
    integer parcel_size = llList2Integer(llGetParcelDetails(llGetPos(), [PARCEL_DETAILS_AREA]), 0);
    //llSay(0, "parcel size is "+(string)parcel_size);
    float sim_portion = (float)((float)parcel_size/65535.0);
    //llSay(0, "sim_portion is "+(string)sim_portion);
    supposed_primcount = ((integer)(15000 * sim_portion))-10;
    //llSay(0, "Actual Primcount is "+(string)actual_primcount);
    //llSay(0, "Supposed Primcount is "+(string)supposed_primcount);
    if (actual_primcount >= supposed_primcount)
    {
        //llSay(0, "This is a normal sim.");
    }
    else if (actual_primcount < supposed_primcount)
    {
        llOwnerSay("Warning! You have entered an openspace sim. These sims have low script performance, and are not designed for complex devices. Your <product name here> may not function properly here.");
    }
}

The above function tests if the sim is openspace or not, based on primcounts. It's not perfect, and could be messed up by object bonus and such, but I've found it works well the majority of the time.

You want to run it in on_rez, attach, CHANGED_TELEPORT, and CHANGED_REGION .

Joshua Nightshade · 08-30-2008, 03:32 AM

Okay good to know. This is the first sim I've ever had so I don't know all the clicky bits yet.

Malachi · 08-30-2008, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildefire Walcott

LL REALLY needs to put something in the UI to make it clear that there are different kinds of sims.

You mean in the same way that they made it clear whether you were leasing land from LL or some third party who might not be there tomorrow?

I can picture M running around a stage yelling "Land Sales! Land Sales! Land Sales! Land Sales!".

SL doesn't care, they don't have to.

Eirik · 08-30-2008, 07:37 AM

1) I disagree that OpenSpaces are a bad thing in general.

2) I do agree it should be made much clearer WHAT they are. Is it to hard to add an indicator to the title bar or in the land menu that clearly says (OpenSpace) - maybe with a link to explain what an OpenSpace is.

3) If you find your OpenSpace sim laggy, reset it. That often times puts it on another server (depending on if there are open spots on other servers)

4) The landowners selling OpenSpaces as if they are full sims should be kicked in the gonads hard enough they won't be able to get back on the grid ever again and those clubowners should be banned from entering any OpenSpace again.

5) OpenSpaces are still a great solution for residential. As long as you don't separate them into 5 million parcels. Ours is separated in two 1/2 sim parcels and we have about 100 scripts, most of them low maintenance once such as a door that opens or windows that change transparence when you click them (the only exceptions are a cuddle couch, a sexbed and a YouTube TV - I assume those are heavier on scripts). We have 0 lag most of the time.

08-30-2008, 01:19 AM	#1 (permalink)
Stroker Serpentine Garden Variety SLU Supporter Avieroticist Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 446 My Mood: SL Join Date: Nov 2003 Business: Strokerz Toyz	Open Space Sims=Death of SL Marketing 101..listen to your cutomers. I see this more and more. Unsuspecting sub-lessors packing every single scripted prim they can onto an OS sim. I get at least 3-4 calls a week for "My bed is broke". Only to readily recognize their issue. When I try to explain to the tenant that their sim wont handle the resources that a full CPU sim will...the first thing they ALL say is "What is an Open Space Sim?" Did LL really believe that people would take it upon themselves to be miserly with these parcels? Did they TRULY think that landlords would put in their charters "These parcels are cheaper because you cant put anything scripted on them" So, I may not be a marketing guru, but I do know what the typical reaction is from the unsuspecting renter. It is not one of congeniatlity I can assure you. Just how long will this new resident stick around in SL when they find out they have been diddled? (And not in a GOOD way) I often wonder what the other connected (15) sim owners must feel when their 20 prim shack and 24 scripts lag like January molasses. Who do they turn to? Where is their angst directed. How does this one bottlenecked OS server affect others? How do 2000 bottlenecked OS servers affect the grid? This is the answer to affordable land? I am continually reminded of that Arizona oceanfont. Smoke and mirrors folks. Brilliant..just fckin brilliant LL =shakes head= Last edited by Stroker Serpentine; 08-30-2008 at 01:24 AM.*

08-30-2008, 01:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
Macphisto Angelus Is a bastage! It puts the lotion on it's skin!! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cali Posts: 3,066 My Mood: SL Join Date: 10-21-2004	One club on an open space is asking for it. __________________ If life is just a joke, why aren't we laughing?

08-30-2008, 03:04 AM	#17 (permalink)
Wildefire Walcott Baby Baroness Pew pew pew. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,010 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 4 SL Join Date: 2005.10.28 Business: Desperation Isle Estates	Yah it's pretty nasty. The great majority of these folks cutting up openspaces aren't even hinting that there's anything different about their sims. There was a recent discussion about this, and LL REALLY needs to put something in the UI to make it clear that there are different kinds of sims. Right now you have to really know what openspaces are and how to identify them by prim math. EDIT: Two Jiras related to this problem: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8768 and http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8770 Please vote! __________________ Desperation Isle Estates: Great prices, great neighbors, great service! New Desperation Isle: The prettiest BDSM Playground and Fetish Mall in SL! Desperation Isle Productions: Scripted skyboxes for lots (and budgets) of all sizes! Wildefire Walcott's Mistressy Musings: My blog about D/s and BDSM in Second Life. Last edited by Wildefire Walcott; 08-30-2008 at 03:09 AM.

08-30-2008, 07:37 AM	#25 (permalink)
Eirik Anarch I hate you Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Occupied People's Republic of Flanders Posts: 2,991 My Mood: SL Join Date: May 2007 XBOX Leaderboard: 19^th	1) I disagree that OpenSpaces are a bad thing in general. 2) I do agree it should be made much clearer WHAT they are. Is it to hard to add an indicator to the title bar or in the land menu that clearly says (OpenSpace) - maybe with a link to explain what an OpenSpace is. 3) If you find your OpenSpace sim laggy, reset it. That often times puts it on another server (depending on if there are open spots on other servers) 4) The landowners selling OpenSpaces as if they are full sims should be kicked in the gonads hard enough they won't be able to get back on the grid ever again and those clubowners should be banned from entering any OpenSpace again. 5) OpenSpaces are still a great solution for residential. As long as you don't separate them into 5 million parcels. Ours is separated in two 1/2 sim parcels and we have about 100 scripts, most of them low maintenance once such as a door that opens or windows that change transparence when you click them (the only exceptions are a cuddle couch, a sexbed and a YouTube TV - I assume those are heavier on scripts). We have 0 lag most of the time. __________________ Visca Catalunya! - Gora Euskal Herria! - Viva Galiza! - Visca Occitània! - Bevet Breizh! - Alba gu brath! - Erin go bragh! - Cymru am byth! - Leve Vlaanderen!

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08-30-2008, 01:24 AM	#2 (permalink)
Colette Meiji Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,605 My Mood:	What are the effects of Scripts recompiled with the Mono in place?

08-30-2008, 01:27 AM	#3 (permalink)
Colette Meiji Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,605 My Mood:	3 clubs on an openspsce seems insane also.

08-30-2008, 01:29 AM	#6 (permalink)
Stephanie Misfit Senior Member Lurker Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 290 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 6 SL Join Date: 05/25/06 Business: La Sylphide	Jesus. I live on an open space. It's just me, a little house, a few plants and trees, a heap of spare prims and a handful of scripts. I would HATE to be sharing a server with sims like that.

08-30-2008, 01:34 AM	#10 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	It's 4 to a core, and 4 cores to a machine, so 16 sims on one. However they're really good about segmenting them, that's improved astonishingly. And prims are really not impacting on performance at all. The prim caps are arbitrary simply for making LL money in sales. The only things that are bad on sims, open space or otherwise, are scripts and avatars.

08-30-2008, 01:38 AM	#11 (permalink)
Stroker Serpentine Garden Variety SLU Supporter Avieroticist Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 446 My Mood: SL Join Date: Nov 2003 Business: Strokerz Toyz	Are there any prim worth having that aren't scripted? /me ducks

08-30-2008, 01:38 AM	#12 (permalink)
Colette Meiji Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,605 My Mood:	3407 scripts isn't that a full sim's worth?

08-30-2008, 01:47 AM	#13 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	3047 is the number of scripted objects; an object can have more than one script in it though so it could be potentially higher. I'm a shit scripter so I don't have many on my sim at all. 228 scripted objects, and that's probably one script per object. Most of those are a simple rotating script. I personally haven't had much trouble on my open space. I was worried about it, and told that they had gotten much better at VMing them off, but still expected it to run like shit once they got popular. My performance hasn't changed at all since I first got it, so either I'm somehow lucky enough to end up in clusters each time I reboot that are always low use or they really have split them off effectively.

08-30-2008, 01:51 AM	#14 (permalink)
Colette Meiji Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,605 My Mood:	so 3407 is a lot of scripted objects though I mean how many prims does a OS sim even hold?

08-30-2008, 01:51 AM	#15 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	3750 prims total. I don't think there's a limit on scripts though.

08-30-2008, 01:55 AM	#16 (permalink)
Colette Meiji Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,605 My Mood:	so by Strokers pictures .. 71 of the prims in the sim didn't have scripts.

08-30-2008, 03:32 AM	#23 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	Okay good to know. This is the first sim I've ever had so I don't know all the clicky bits yet.

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