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Ran Garrigus · 09-07-2008, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarKirby Magojiro

I'm pretty sure that number is the total number of scripts, npot scripted objects.

Stroker, you need to put a warning in your products, now. I have some code for you.

Would it be possible to turn that script into a Mystitool add-on, I wonder? It might be a useful way to get this sort of information spread more widely.

Talwyn Mills · 09-23-2008, 06:57 PM

I've just been called to an unhappy customer that bought one of my ranges, it wasn't working right. From his discription of the problem I could guess the problem and it was confirmed right away.

He was living on 1/4th of a heavily loaded Openspace sim. The customer had no idea what an openspace sim was and the convenant made no mention of the fact it was an openspace, instead claiming it was:

Quote:

1- Nature of Land

Residential and light commercial - Class 5

Estate owner was Felippe Miles.

Khamon · 09-23-2008, 07:56 PM

Perhaps we should retitle the thread "Bastard Estate Owners = Death of SL."

Sephy · 10-03-2008, 02:34 PM

scripts are now read as eps because of the mono conversion to see what the scripts are running at try the RC viewer 1.21 which reads eps and not ips

**Stroker Serpentine** · 10-04-2008, 11:55 AM

In LL's infinite wisdom, apparently the thought never occurred to them to diffinitively distinguish OS sims from full sims. Of course that would mean they would have to add a descriptive element in the "About Land" with the potential of curbing their land dump.

Lets leave that to the conscientious land barons to include in their covenants. I mean after all..everyone is conscientious..right?

"Low prim estates" is an attempt to diffuse IMO..How about "Low SCRIPT estates" ?? Wouldn't that be more factual? The average landowner can count prim easily...it's a bit more difficult to inform them of script limitations. Besides, you're still competing with resellers with no such moral compass.

SL has reached it's peak, content creators are pulling out in droves. Oldbies do not log on much anymore and the landscape is turning to urban blight..full of the same old tired clubs with the same old tired skyboxes. Gone are the days of Neverland and Amsterdam. We (rhetorical) log in to clear IM's and collect our pittance, deal with irate customers who have ONCE AGAIN managed to lose their bed, tv, range ad infinitum. Yes...I'm cynical.

As I approach my 5 year anniversary in Second Life, I cannot help but to digress. Is SL REALLY what we envisioned it to be? Or, have we succumbed to the marginal motivations of capitalism? Or, are we just whitewashing the fence? Granted, we have new management, an attention to the mainland, cheap land and googles of content. Where is the transformation? Where is the "metaverse"? Are we bloated beyond any consideration of a paradigm shift?

Two billion usd is being pumped into virtual worlds with the rollouts beginning 2009. Will they compare to SL? Remember, SL is built on 10 year old technology..client downloads are considered archaic in todays age of cloud-centric shared resources. What if WoW or HipiHi were to incorporate user-generated content with a viable economy? Would there be an exodus? I am excited for the future, but at the same time melancholy for what we have lost.

As LL tinkers and tweaks their oblique road map, I find myself mourning the loss of Anshe..now THAT was paradigm.

Beijing here we come!

<end diatribe>

I never knew a more presumptuous person than myself. The fact that I say that shows that what I say is true. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Khamon · 10-04-2008, 08:18 PM

I've spent five years in Second Life bug hunting, talking to Lindens, pouring my inworld earnings back into the project, and anything else I could think of to support the dream. Last week I rented an Openspace from the Fairchangs and am in the process of moving Fate Gardens and divesting myself of Mainland tier and blight.

The Lindens will hear no more from me as I've found a continent operated by sensible people who serve their customers and are willing to trust me with estate tools. If they broke off and opened a completely separate grid tomorrow, I'd go with them.

Ironically, Second Life is finally, after all this time, exactly what I want and expect it to be. It just took me relegating LL to common carrier status so I could work with business-minded adults for a change.

Openspace Sims = Life of SL for me.

Kristian · 10-04-2008, 08:31 PM

Have I mentioned I fucken love my OpenSpace sim? I did? I just wanted to mention that again.

Ayesha Lytton · 10-04-2008, 08:35 PM

Stroker, I really am not in a place to criticize someone as successful as you, but when I read what you've written, I am not sure that the problem is solely with SL. It sounds like you are longing for the good old days when things were the way you wanted them, when you knew what worked and what didn't. That is understandable, but things change, especially when it comes to technology, and you have to adapt or be left behind.

Openspace sims are now common, and extremely popular. If they were really so bad, people would not keep buying them. I'm in the land business - small-time compared to many - and I rented 2 full openspaces to individuals before even advertising that I do so. My plots on my first divided openspace are renting out fast too, and yes I provide info on scripts on openspaces and monitor performance daily. So far all has been fine. I have a chronic complainer, OCD tenant on that sim who has an often-used sex bed, and he has not said a word to me about problems with it. I don't know what brand it is, I only know his habits because he rarely tints his windows. :-P

I am not a scripter, but have you looked into redoing your scripts to run better on openspaces? Openspace performance is something that could make or break your brand at this point...if a competitor's beds run better, they will gain more of the market, while word spreads that yours don't perform well. It just sounds to me like this is a challenge to be stepped up to, not a reason to give up.

Penny Patton · 10-04-2008, 10:05 PM

I can see where you're coming from, but Stroker has stated his issues with OpenSpace sims pretty clearly. We have these sims with a fraction of the prims, and much less capacity to run scripts. Some land owners are selling/renting these to people without making sure the people they're selling/renting to are aware of the differences. (And, of course, there's also the people who simply do not care to know the differences, but will complain loudly to the creator of an object that doesn't work as advertised in their overburdened OpenSpace.)

If I've understood the arguments so far, there's no way to distinguish between a regular sim and an Openspace sim, except by checking the number of prims it has space for. There's also the fact that most people seem to focus on the limited number of prims, and gloss over the fact that Openspace sims can't run as many scripts.

Now, it seems no one has a problem with Openspace sims in and of themselves. They certainly have their uses. It's just that so often they're misused, and some of thise misuse could be curbed by simply making it easier to distinguish the two, and maybe by including some indication of how an Openspace sim is different when a person goes to purchase land in one.

It's also not necessarily that Stroker's beds work poorly and he'll simply need to redo them so they'll run better, Openspace sims really do have tighter limitations on the scripts running within them. If you overburden an Openspace, it won't matter how well an item is scripted.

Khamon · 10-05-2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stroker

As LL tinkers and tweaks their oblique road map, I find myself mourning the loss of Anshe..now THAT was paradigm.

Wait, Anshe left SL?

Truly?

Cocoanut Koala · 10-05-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stroker Serpentine

As I approach my 5 year anniversary in Second Life, I cannot help but to digress. Is SL REALLY what we envisioned it to be? Or, have we succumbed to the marginal motivations of capitalism? Or, are we just whitewashing the fence? Granted, we have new management, an attention to the mainland, cheap land and googles of content. Where is the transformation? Where is the "metaverse"? Are we bloated beyond any consideration of a paradigm shift?

We have met the metaverse and they is us.

coco

Kristian · 10-05-2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khamon

Wait, Anshe left SL?

Truly?

Dreamland's still huge. Maybe he means 'Anshe left the SL escort industry.' Maybe on an alt or something? He could know things we don't.

**Stroker Serpentine** · 10-05-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayesha Lytton

I am not a scripter, but have you looked into redoing your scripts to run better on openspaces? Openspace performance is something that could make or break your brand at this point...if a competitor's beds run better, they will gain more of the market, while word spreads that yours don't perform well. It just sounds to me like this is a challenge to be stepped up to, not a reason to give up.

You have a good point..and as stated later..It really doesnt matter how effective the scripting is. Resource limitations are just that.

My point is this is just one more piss-poor PR process.

While they are at it lets limit animations to 30 seconds..
(Icarus Studios has had progressive d/l anims for years)

Sound files to mono-channel 10 second bites..
(Dolby 1.0?)

Limit video files to everything BUT flash..
(Progressive video d/l..wtf do the tubes know?)

Use an avatar skeletal rig thats 10 years old..
(Who needs fingers/toes/facials anyways?)

No dynamic shadows..
(There's always opaque prim!)

No shared application resources..
(Google Docs?..we do have clouds!)

No custom mesh capability..
(The OGRE is hungry)

No interactive HTML/Ajax..
(Whats one more window among friends?)

Don't EVEN get me started on intrisic bugs that pre-date the jira.

Yet..we can have unlimited free account storage

More cheap land..there's the answer!

(I can buy wharehouse space downtown pretty cheap irl..but I sure wouldn't live there)

/me is ready for Third Life..not an intervention.
/me goes back to playing in his sandbox.

I guess I need to lower my expectations *shrug*

**Stroker Serpentine** · 10-05-2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocoanut Koala

We have met the metaverse and they is us.

coco

I hope you're always a part of my metaverse coco

**Stroker Serpentine** · 10-27-2008, 09:24 PM

LMFAO...Who didn't see THIS coming?

Openspace Pricing and Policy Changes « Official Second Life Blog

Ayesha Lytton · 10-27-2008, 10:17 PM

Go ahead and laugh now...you won't be in 2 months when the SL economy collapses from this and nobody buys your 6000L$ sex beds anymore. Less privacy, less money coming into the economy from deep-pocketed estate owners - you're going to be fucked and not in a good way.

I'm in the land business and have 2 OS sims that are privately rented, and not abused. One of the renters paid me for a year, the other is paying off the setup fee over 6 months. She has paid 2 months so far. Even if she stays till the bitter end, she'll only have paid me for 4 months - so I'm out $100 USD. As for the other guy, I can refund tier if he wants to bail, but again, one of us is gonna be out $100. I have a third OS that is split up and rented by me. I make about $38/month on it if it's full. I'll have had it 4 months by Dec. so I've made under $152 on it. So again, a loss of $100. Not to mention wasted classified ad charges, time spent designing and terraforming, etc. Total loss to me from LL's stupid decision, probably around $500. Others will lose much more. Does that seriously give you joy?

Khamon · 10-27-2008, 10:18 PM

I didn't see it coming this quickly.

LL will never ~~understand~~ care will they.

They'll just sucker punch us til we all leave.

**Psyke Phaeton** · 10-27-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stroker Serpentine

I guess I need to lower my expectations *shrug*

So back to VZones then?

Charlemagne Allen · 10-27-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayesha Lytton

Go ahead and laugh now...you won't be in 2 months when the SL economy collapses from this and nobody buys your 6000L$ sex beds anymore. Less privacy, less money coming into the economy from deep-pocketed estate owners - you're going to be fucked and not in a good way.

I'm in the land business and have 2 OS sims that are privately rented, and not abused. One of the renters paid me for a year, the other is paying off the setup fee over 6 months. She has paid 2 months so far. Even if she stays till the bitter end, she'll only have paid me for 4 months - so I'm out $100 USD. As for the other guy, I can refund tier if he wants to bail, but again, one of us is gonna be out $100. I have a third OS that is split up and rented by me. I make about $38/month on it if it's full. I'll have had it 4 months by Dec. so I've made under $152 on it. So again, a loss of $100. Not to mention wasted classified ad charges, time spent designing and terraforming, etc. Total loss to me from LL's stupid decision, probably around $500. Others will lose much more. Does that seriously give you joy?

There's such a thing as gallows humor.. it helps when other people surprise you with inanity of their decisions.

Stormy Weeks · 10-28-2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayesha Lytton

Go ahead and laugh now...you won't be in 2 months when the SL economy collapses from this and nobody buys your 6000L$ sex beds anymore. Less privacy, less money coming into the economy from deep-pocketed estate owners - you're going to be fucked and not in a good way.

I'm in the land business and have 2 OS sims that are privately rented, and not abused. One of the renters paid me for a year, the other is paying off the setup fee over 6 months. She has paid 2 months so far. Even if she stays till the bitter end, she'll only have paid me for 4 months - so I'm out $100 USD. As for the other guy, I can refund tier if he wants to bail, but again, one of us is gonna be out $100. I have a third OS that is split up and rented by me. I make about $38/month on it if it's full. I'll have had it 4 months by Dec. so I've made under $152 on it. So again, a loss of $100. Not to mention wasted classified ad charges, time spent designing and terraforming, etc. Total loss to me from LL's stupid decision, probably around $500. Others will lose much more. Does that seriously give you joy?

Yeah it sucks if you own OS sims.

Successful business owners will adapt though. If people really want 65536 sq. meters of space that the openspaces offer, they'll pay for it, and the landlords will be able to pass the cost forward.

Otherwise they'll go back to the more traditional offerings, which will be good news for the owners of traditional sims that couldn't keep them rented.

JennL · 10-28-2008, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormy Weeks

Successful business owners will adapt though.

What about us little people. I have a main sim with a lightly used open sim next door for water views and a couple of small desert isles. I'm getting punished for doing nothing wrong.

Anyways its had its desired effect so just gonna chuck it away. I dislike doing business with extortionists. They lose 900 in tier for next year which i know is a tiny prick in the ocean, the key term being prick.

**Psyke Phaeton** · 10-28-2008, 02:29 AM

Should be interesting reading "http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/bus...ms-past-8.html" next week.

Wildefire Walcott · 10-28-2008, 03:41 AM

Wow, I'm more glad than ever that I chose not to bid on a pair of popular public sims a couple weeks ago.

Tyche Shepherd · 10-28-2008, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyke Phaeton

Should be interesting reading "http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/bus...ms-past-8.html" next week.

I'm thinking of reporting daily

- I certainly will report today - My daily surveying is in about 9 hours time.

Quantum Destiny · 10-28-2008, 04:51 AM

The way this has been handled is bordering on unethical. Sure, the whole concept of open spaces has been severely abused by many estate owners who have positioned them as being almost indistinguishable from regular sims - they weren't meant for 'living' on. But LL have been selling these things for months and months knowing full well how they were being used, effectively giving estate owners the green light for that type of use.

This should have been dealt with months ago, and not by increasing tier.

09-23-2008, 07:56 PM	#78 (permalink)
Khamon Minister of Greenery It's that man we found. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 5,436 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 2 SL Join Date: November, 2003 Business: Fate Gardens Flowers and Trees	Perhaps we should retitle the thread "Bastard Estate Owners = Death of SL." __________________ But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song. - Quenta Silmarillion Please Visit Our Gardens and Our Website

10-28-2008, 03:41 AM	#98 (permalink)
Wildefire Walcott Baby Baroness Pew pew pew. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,202 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 4 SL Join Date: 2005.10.28 Business: Desperation Isle Estates	Wow, I'm more glad than ever that I chose not to bid on a pair of popular public sims a couple weeks ago. __________________ Desperation Isle Estates: Great prices, great neighbors, great service! New Desperation Isle: The prettiest BDSM Playground and Fetish Mall in SL! Desperation Isle Productions: Scripted skyboxes for lots (and budgets) of all sizes! Wildefire Walcott's Mistressy Musings: My blog about D/s and BDSM in Second Life.

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10-03-2008, 02:34 PM	#79 (permalink)
Sephy Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1	scripts are now read as eps because of the mono conversion to see what the scripts are running at try the RC viewer 1.21 which reads eps and not ips

10-04-2008, 11:55 AM	#80 (permalink)
Stroker Serpentine Garden Variety SLU Supporter Avieroticist Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 520 My Mood: SL Join Date: Nov 2003 Business: Strokerz Toyz	In LL's infinite wisdom, apparently the thought never occurred to them to diffinitively distinguish OS sims from full sims. Of course that would mean they would have to add a descriptive element in the "About Land" with the potential of curbing their land dump. Lets leave that to the conscientious land barons to include in their covenants. I mean after all..everyone is conscientious..right? "Low prim estates" is an attempt to diffuse IMO..How about "Low SCRIPT estates" ?? Wouldn't that be more factual? The average landowner can count prim easily...it's a bit more difficult to inform them of script limitations. Besides, you're still competing with resellers with no such moral compass. SL has reached it's peak, content creators are pulling out in droves. Oldbies do not log on much anymore and the landscape is turning to urban blight..full of the same old tired clubs with the same old tired skyboxes. Gone are the days of Neverland and Amsterdam. We (rhetorical) log in to clear IM's and collect our pittance, deal with irate customers who have ONCE AGAIN managed to lose their bed, tv, range ad infinitum. Yes...I'm cynical. As I approach my 5 year anniversary in Second Life, I cannot help but to digress. Is SL REALLY what we envisioned it to be? Or, have we succumbed to the marginal motivations of capitalism? Or, are we just whitewashing the fence? Granted, we have new management, an attention to the mainland, cheap land and googles of content. Where is the transformation? Where is the "metaverse"? Are we bloated beyond any consideration of a paradigm shift? Two billion usd is being pumped into virtual worlds with the rollouts beginning 2009. Will they compare to SL? Remember, SL is built on 10 year old technology..client downloads are considered archaic in todays age of cloud-centric shared resources. What if WoW or HipiHi were to incorporate user-generated content with a viable economy? Would there be an exodus? I am excited for the future, but at the same time melancholy for what we have lost. As LL tinkers and tweaks their oblique road map, I find myself mourning the loss of Anshe..now THAT was paradigm. Beijing here we come! <end diatribe> I never knew a more presumptuous person than myself. The fact that I say that shows that what I say is true. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

10-04-2008, 08:18 PM	#81 (permalink)
Khamon Minister of Greenery It's that man we found. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 5,436 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 2 SL Join Date: November, 2003 Business: Fate Gardens Flowers and Trees	I've spent five years in Second Life bug hunting, talking to Lindens, pouring my inworld earnings back into the project, and anything else I could think of to support the dream. Last week I rented an Openspace from the Fairchangs and am in the process of moving Fate Gardens and divesting myself of Mainland tier and blight. The Lindens will hear no more from me as I've found a continent operated by sensible people who serve their customers and are willing to trust me with estate tools. If they broke off and opened a completely separate grid tomorrow, I'd go with them. Ironically, Second Life is finally, after all this time, exactly what I want and expect it to be. It just took me relegating LL to common carrier status so I could work with business-minded adults for a change. Openspace Sims = Life of SL for me.

10-04-2008, 08:31 PM	#82 (permalink)
Kristian lucky idiot SLU Supporter Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,909 My Mood: SL Join Date: 2/26/2005 Blog Entries: 1	Have I mentioned I fucken love my OpenSpace sim? I did? I just wanted to mention that again.

10-04-2008, 08:35 PM	#83 (permalink)
Ayesha Lytton Solace Beach Owner Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 253 Business: Solace Beach Estates	Stroker, I really am not in a place to criticize someone as successful as you, but when I read what you've written, I am not sure that the problem is solely with SL. It sounds like you are longing for the good old days when things were the way you wanted them, when you knew what worked and what didn't. That is understandable, but things change, especially when it comes to technology, and you have to adapt or be left behind. Openspace sims are now common, and extremely popular. If they were really so bad, people would not keep buying them. I'm in the land business - small-time compared to many - and I rented 2 full openspaces to individuals before even advertising that I do so. My plots on my first divided openspace are renting out fast too, and yes I provide info on scripts on openspaces and monitor performance daily. So far all has been fine. I have a chronic complainer, OCD tenant on that sim who has an often-used sex bed, and he has not said a word to me about problems with it. I don't know what brand it is, I only know his habits because he rarely tints his windows. :-P I am not a scripter, but have you looked into redoing your scripts to run better on openspaces? Openspace performance is something that could make or break your brand at this point...if a competitor's beds run better, they will gain more of the market, while word spreads that yours don't perform well. It just sounds to me like this is a challenge to be stepped up to, not a reason to give up.

10-04-2008, 10:05 PM	#84 (permalink)
Penny Patton Moo. Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 861 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 5 SL Join Date: 11/30/2005 Business: Happy Bivouac	I can see where you're coming from, but Stroker has stated his issues with OpenSpace sims pretty clearly. We have these sims with a fraction of the prims, and much less capacity to run scripts. Some land owners are selling/renting these to people without making sure the people they're selling/renting to are aware of the differences. (And, of course, there's also the people who simply do not care to know the differences, but will complain loudly to the creator of an object that doesn't work as advertised in their overburdened OpenSpace.) If I've understood the arguments so far, there's no way to distinguish between a regular sim and an Openspace sim, except by checking the number of prims it has space for. There's also the fact that most people seem to focus on the limited number of prims, and gloss over the fact that Openspace sims can't run as many scripts. Now, it seems no one has a problem with Openspace sims in and of themselves. They certainly have their uses. It's just that so often they're misused, and some of thise misuse could be curbed by simply making it easier to distinguish the two, and maybe by including some indication of how an Openspace sim is different when a person goes to purchase land in one. It's also not necessarily that Stroker's beds work poorly and he'll simply need to redo them so they'll run better, Openspace sims really do have tighter limitations on the scripts running within them. If you overburden an Openspace, it won't matter how well an item is scripted.

10-27-2008, 09:24 PM	#90 (permalink)
Stroker Serpentine Garden Variety SLU Supporter Avieroticist Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 520 My Mood: SL Join Date: Nov 2003 Business: Strokerz Toyz	LMFAO...Who didn't see THIS coming? Openspace Pricing and Policy Changes « Official Second Life Blog

10-27-2008, 10:17 PM	#91 (permalink)
Ayesha Lytton Solace Beach Owner Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 253 Business: Solace Beach Estates	Go ahead and laugh now...you won't be in 2 months when the SL economy collapses from this and nobody buys your 6000L$ sex beds anymore. Less privacy, less money coming into the economy from deep-pocketed estate owners - you're going to be fucked and not in a good way. I'm in the land business and have 2 OS sims that are privately rented, and not abused. One of the renters paid me for a year, the other is paying off the setup fee over 6 months. She has paid 2 months so far. Even if she stays till the bitter end, she'll only have paid me for 4 months - so I'm out $100 USD. As for the other guy, I can refund tier if he wants to bail, but again, one of us is gonna be out $100. I have a third OS that is split up and rented by me. I make about $38/month on it if it's full. I'll have had it 4 months by Dec. so I've made under $152 on it. So again, a loss of $100. Not to mention wasted classified ad charges, time spent designing and terraforming, etc. Total loss to me from LL's stupid decision, probably around $500. Others will lose much more. Does that seriously give you joy?

10-27-2008, 10:18 PM	#92 (permalink)
Khamon Minister of Greenery It's that man we found. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 5,436 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 2 SL Join Date: November, 2003 Business: Fate Gardens Flowers and Trees	I didn't see it coming this quickly. LL will never ~~understand~~ care will they. They'll just sucker punch us til we all leave.

10-28-2008, 02:29 AM	#97 (permalink)
Psyke Phaeton Senior Member SLU Supporter Running 'round in Circle's Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 7,175 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 1 SL Join Date: 12-Oct-2003 Business: PDS HomeSecurity Orb - Security Orbs since 2004 Blog Entries: 4	Should be interesting reading "http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/bus...ms-past-8.html" next week.

10-28-2008, 04:51 AM	#100 (permalink)
Quantum Destiny Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: England Posts: 2,424 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 4 SL Join Date: 25 July 2004 Business: Luxury Homes by Quantum Destiny	The way this has been handled is bordering on unethical. Sure, the whole concept of open spaces has been severely abused by many estate owners who have positioned them as being almost indistinguishable from regular sims - they weren't meant for 'living' on. But LL have been selling these things for months and months knowing full well how they were being used, effectively giving estate owners the green light for that type of use. This should have been dealt with months ago, and not by increasing tier.

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