SLUniverse Forums

Madhu Maruti · 09-22-2008, 11:10 AM

As I mentioned in the OS poll thread I am a new user of Linux - just two weeks into getting an Ubuntu partition up and running on what used to be my Vista-only laptop. I'm using the Hardy Heron build and so far I am really happy with it, though I have yet to iron out all the bugs.

I am not a serious computer jock though I have some intuitions about things (and am developing new ones quickly as I start to understand how Linux works.) I am really new to Linux; this is the first time I have ever tried it. My only prior experience with any flavor of Unix is that 10 years ago I was sysadmin for a cluster of Sun workstations running two different versions of SunOS.

I have benefited from the evangelism of Linux users, browsed and search the Ubuntu forums and others for information as I've gotten my new OS running. And now I'm starting this thread here, hoping to pick the brains of any Linux-heads out there in SLU's ranks, and maybe also to help others decide to take the plunge who are sitting on the fence like I was for so long.

I can talk later about some of the things I've made work, but of course it's more natural to complain about things I haven't yet made work. On the other thread I mentioned that I didn't think there was a good substitute for iTunes, and Natalie kindly responded to that:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natalie P.

Madhu, I have one word for you. Wine. It's Ubuntu's built-in Windows emulator, and depending on the program, it can run Windows programs almost seamlessly, with no noticeable performance hit. Since it's already built into the OS, there's nothing to download (though you'll want to be sure you stay on top of updates for it), and you basically just pop in your installer for whatever Windows program you want to run, and go from there.

Thanks! I have read about Wine - it's funny it didn't occur to me that it was built into Ubuntu, though nearly every other program I read about and thought I was going to have to install (including Pidgin and OpenOffice) turned out to be included in the Ubuntu build I installed.

But I have read that Wine + iTunes still doesn't seem to talk to iPods, though, which is why I haven't tried it yet. Does it work for you? I don't use iTunes for playing music that much; mostly I use it for getting music onto my iPod that I have downloaded or imported from CDs, and for creating and editing playlists on my iPod.

Quote:

The ONLY place Linux developers have fallen behind the curve is in the creation of a iTunes replacement. Amarok is a pretty good audio program, but it lacks the easy playlist burning functionality of iTunes. I keep hoping, though.

Yeah, Amarok was what I was going to try if Wine + iTunes didn't do the job. I think Amarok is better at talking to iPods? Truth is I haven't got to playing with this much yet; I only installed Ubuntu two weeks ago and it's just one of the things on my list.

badkittybeth · 09-22-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhu Maruti

As I mentioned in the OS poll thread I am a new user of Linux - just two weeks into getting an Ubuntu partition up and running on what used to be my Vista-only laptop. I'm using the Hardy Heron build and so far I am really happy with it, though I have yet to iron out all the bugs.

I am not a serious computer jock though I have some intuitions about things (and am developing new ones quickly as I start to understand how Linux works.) I am really new to Linux; this is the first time I have ever tried it. My only prior experience with any flavor of Unix is that 10 years ago I was sysadmin for a cluster of Sun workstations running two different versions of SunOS.

I have benefited from the evangelism of Linux users, browsed and search the Ubuntu forums and others for information as I've gotten my new OS running. And now I'm starting this thread here, hoping to pick the brains of any Linux-heads out there in SLU's ranks, and maybe also to help others decide to take the plunge who are sitting on the fence like I was for so long.

I can talk later about some of the things I've made work, but of course it's more natural to complain about things I haven't yet made work. On the other thread I mentioned that I didn't think there was a good substitute for iTunes, and Natalie kindly responded to that:

Thanks! I have read about Wine - it's funny it didn't occur to me that it was built into Ubuntu, though nearly every other program I read about and thought I was going to have to install (including Pidgin and OpenOffice) turned out to be included in the Ubuntu build I installed.

But I have read that Wine + iTunes still doesn't seem to talk to iPods, though, which is why I haven't tried it yet. Does it work for you? I don't use iTunes for playing music that much; mostly I use it for getting music onto my iPod that I have downloaded or imported from CDs, and for creating and editing playlists on my iPod.

Yeah, Amarok was what I was going to try if Wine + iTunes didn't do the job. I think Amarok is better at talking to iPods? Truth is I haven't got to playing with this much yet; I only installed Ubuntu two weeks ago and it's just one of the things on my list.

I just started using Ubuntu about a month ago and i love it.

we need this thread

thanks!

Natalie P. · 09-22-2008, 01:05 PM

To be honest, I don't know much about getting your iPod to talk to a Linux comp, just because I don't have one, so I've never looked into it. And most of my knowledge is filtered through my very own personal sysadmin (aka, my husband), but I'll try to help as best as I can!

Lecktor Hannibal · 09-23-2008, 06:40 AM

So Wine is included in the ubuntu build ? I just wiped my laptop last night and installed ubuntu 8 whatever. If Wine was included, shouldn't an .exe file run? It doesn't on mine. What do I need to do to launch wine? Signed a linux nO0b,

Fade Languish · 09-23-2008, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhu Maruti

But I have read that Wine + iTunes still doesn't seem to talk to iPods, though, which is why I haven't tried it yet. Does it work for you? I don't use iTunes for playing music that much; mostly I use it for getting music onto my iPod that I have downloaded or imported from CDs, and for creating and editing playlists on my iPod.

I just found this: iTunes syncing now works in Linux with Wine - Download Squad

*knows nothing about linux*

Aodhan McDunnough · 09-23-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lecktor Hannibal

So Wine is included in the ubuntu build ? I just wiped my laptop last night and installed ubuntu 8 whatever. If Wine was included, shouldn't an .exe file run? It doesn't on mine. What do I need to do to launch wine? Signed a linux nO0b,

IIRC it's not in Ubuntu however the Synaptic Package Manager (under System-Admin) can get it for you.

Just search for Wine and then select it for installation then click the Apply button. Of course as with everything else installed by the synaptic, since it fetches the install files from file repositiories around the world, you have to be connected to the internet. You also need your admin password to do this.

I will suppose you guys don't want to use the command line so synaptic is it. The command line runs a bit faster but you have to know the name of the package to install.

Madhu Maruti · 09-23-2008, 10:07 AM

I don't mind using the command line but Synaptic is easier and more comfortable. I don't really care if the command line runs "a bit faster" because I am slower in using it so there's not really a gain there.

I probably won't have time to play with my Ubuntu build this week, but in addition to futzing with Wine and seeing if I can get iTunes working and talking to my iPod, here are a few other matters I have had some trouble with:

* Playing media. I haven't put a lot of work into this yet, but I hoped it would "just work" and it didn't. I popped in a DVD, and let whatever default application run that wanted to. It needed a codec, of course, so I downloaded the codec, but the DVD still would not play. I haven't tried a different DVD, different codec, different player, or anything yet, so I still have a ways to go before I give up on this.

* Wireless. Getting my wireless to work was a bitch and it's even more flakey than it was in Windows, which is truly saying something. It was a big hassle to find the right drivers for my card and get them installed. (It was also my first time dealing with restricted software after I got Ubuntu running so part of the problem was that I was still getting my head around the concept.) It won't connect at all unless the signal strength is up around 75%, which is pretty damn rare, even inside my own house. And even when it does connect, it sometimes randomly disconnects. This is incredibly frustrating as it is the one thing that could really be a dealbreaker for me. I have to be able to connect reliably to my own network, and I have no idea how to fix it.

* Dual displays. I have a little impromptu docking station at home where I plug the laptop into a keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Under Ubuntu the keyboard and mouse just worked, which was nice. I had to do some fighting to get the external display to work at all. But I cannot figure out how to get it to work as an extended desktop. It insists on cloning the laptop display, even when I uncheck "clone display" in the display properties dialogue box. As near as I can tell, the "Detect displays" button in the dialogue box does nothing.

My laptop, by the way, is a Dell Inspiron 1521. I don't think it's a great piece of hardware. I probably won't buy a Dell next time. But it's only 1 year old and I'm hoping not to buy another new computer for two more years.

Sobriquet Kryakutnoy · 09-23-2008, 11:33 AM

There should be several guides around the internet on what packages and repositories to add to Ubuntu to enable proper DVD and other media playback. I don't think Ubuntu hosts any CSS or other packages on their repositories due to their questionable legality.

Wireless AFAIK is still somewhat undeveloped in linux. Many cards and chipsets work, but then you get into the mess of replacing your network manager in GNOME (should you choose to go the graphical route) to enable various features. I never did get WPA2-PSK working. Then again this is coming from my experience on an Apple Airport Extreme card, and Apple/Broadcom have been extremely tight-lipped in releasing any specs and standards on the chipset in use.

Walker Moore · 09-23-2008, 11:40 AM

Hey, can I join in with a couple of questions?

I'm actually a seasoned Linux user, having *lots* of experience with Gentoo until a couple of years ago, but all this talk of Ubuntu has got me wanting to petition off a 250GB chunk of my primary hard drive and installing it.

I've heard of problems installing Linux *after* Vista though. Something to do with the Vista petition becoming useless and the OS having to be reinstalled.

Can anybody confirm this?

Also, there is a x64 edition of Ubuntu isn't there? With KDE 4 as the primary WM?

Aodhan McDunnough · 09-23-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhu Maruti

* Dual displays. I have a little impromptu docking station at home where I plug the laptop into a keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Under Ubuntu the keyboard and mouse just worked, which was nice. I had to do some fighting to get the external display to work at all. But I cannot figure out how to get it to work as an extended desktop. It insists on cloning the laptop display, even when I uncheck "clone display" in the display properties dialogue box. As near as I can tell, the "Detect displays" button in the dialogue box does nothing.

Now THIS part is best done command line. It's gotten so I don't entrust dual vidmode to the GUI.

1. edit xorg.conf (found in the /etc/X11 folder). You have to edt the "virtual" spec to be as large as the two displays together. So two side-by-side 1024x768 would be 2048x768. Keep a backup of xorg.conf so that it's easy to restore later. I normally have two source files and I just copy the one I need in.

2. after a restart, on the terminal, assuming two 1024x768
xrandr --output LVDS --mode 1024x768
xrandr --output VGA --left-of LVDS --mode 1024x768

To switch back to single
xrandr --output VGA --off
xrandr --output LVDS --mode (whatever your default mode is)

Madhu Maruti · 09-23-2008, 12:35 PM

Thanks, Aodhan. I tried something like that - I added a virtual display to xorg.conf, but it did not work - it just made the display bigger than the monitor, and placed that identical display on both monitors.

But I didn't do the xrandr part - I will try that - but I don't really understand what you have typed there. Is that something to enter on the command line? what would be "(whatever your default mode is)"? Can you please unpack it a bit? ETA: oh, I see - by "mode" you mean resolution for the single laptop display? Would I need to enter these commands every time I docked or undocked the laptop? There's no way to autodetect (as it does in Windows)?

One more question - I don't have two identical monitors, I have a laptop and a desktop monitor with two different resolutions. So using this method seems pretty klugey; it will end up with either part of one of the monitors not being used, or, part of the virtual desktop not being displayed. Is there a way to handle that?

I hate to say it, but all of this "just works" in Windows - the system detects the two monitors correctly and can create an extended desktop even though they have two different resolutions. Is this not possible in Ubuntu?

Aodhan McDunnough · 09-23-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhu Maruti

Thanks, Aodhan. I tried something like that - I added a virtual display to xorg.conf, but it did not work - it just made the display bigger than the monitor, and placed that identical display on both monitors.

But I didn't do the xrandr part - I will try that - but I don't really understand what you have typed there. Is that something to enter on the command line? what would be "(whatever your default mode is)"? Can you please unpack it a bit? ETA: oh, I see - by "mode" you mean resolution for the single laptop display? Would I need to enter these commands every time I docked or undocked the laptop? There's no way to autodetect (as it does in Windows)?

One more question - I don't have two identical monitors, I have a laptop and a desktop monitor with two different resolutions. So using this method seems pretty klugey; it will end up with either part of one of the monitors not being used, or, part of the virtual desktop not being displayed. Is there a way to handle that?

I hate to say it, but all of this "just works" in Windows - the system detects the two monitors correctly and can create an extended desktop even though they have two different resolutions. Is this not possible in Ubuntu?

That's the exact text entered in the command line, including the double dashes that xrandr uses for command-line options. In the last part I would put 1280x800 because that's my laptop's native res.

Unfortunately those commands are best typed in everytime you switch. I made bash files (scripts) for my setups so I run them like commands.

Daman · 09-23-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sobriquet Kryakutnoy

Wireless AFAIK is still somewhat undeveloped in linux.

Main reason I stopped using Linux.

3 years ago I had a Linux desktop. Actually the carcass is still sitting underneath my desk - with all of the still usable pieces removed.

It was Fedora Core. Edition 4 I think? So long ago

At the dorm it was wired internet, so it worked perfect for me. When I moved here, I suddenly had to use wifi, getting a wire to my room was NOT an option.

3 weeks later I still hadn't gotten it working, and I simply moved on to XP Pro.

Since I'm considering of moving back to Linux on my next PC - how is the state of wifi now? Still as abominable as 3 years ago, or actually workable? I know not to expect the same level of support as under windows, but as long as I can get it working I'm happy even if it's not plug and play.

Walker Moore · 09-23-2008, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker Moore

I've heard of problems installing Linux *after* Vista though. Something to do with the Vista petition becoming useless and the OS having to be reinstalled.

OK, I researched and rediscovered the issue that was bothering me. I think I'll be alarmist from the start.

BE CAREFUL IF YOU NEED TO RESIZE YOUR VISTA PARTITION!

Changes were apparently made to NTFS for Vista which rendered many partition resizing apps useless. Vista would often become unbootable, and had to be reinstalled.

The solution to this however is within Vista itself.

Click the Windows button > Right click My Computer > Select Manage.

This will open the Computer Management console.

Then select 'Disk Management' under the Storage branch.

You should then be able to right click your main hard drive and select Shrink Volume.

So, if you want to make 50GB of space available for Linux, you would enter 51200 (MB), hit OK, and the partition will be resized within minutes.
Play safe and back up your data first though!

You may find this B KB MB GB Converter useful if you want to be precise.

Sobriquet Kryakutnoy · 09-23-2008, 03:33 PM

Vista is extremely touchy. I installed VMWare Fusion, booted Vista (from my second partition, typically run natively via Boot Camp) inside of it once, and after that point every time I tried booting Vista it would just throw back an error that critical system files had been tampered with while Vista was not running, and that I needed to re-check my WGA authentication.

The kicker? It gave me instructions on how to re-check WGA, but would refuse to launch the Explorer process, and if I dismissed the warning it just kicked me back out to a login screen.

The ultimate solution was a re-install.

Aodhan McDunnough · 09-23-2008, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sobriquet Kryakutnoy

Vista is extremely touchy. I installed VMWare Fusion, booted Vista (from my second partition, typically run natively via Boot Camp) inside of it once, and after that point every time I tried booting Vista it would just throw back an error that critical system files had been tampered with while Vista was not running, and that I needed to re-check my WGA authentication.

The kicker? It gave me instructions on how to re-check WGA, but would refuse to launch the Explorer process, and if I dismissed the warning it just kicked me back out to a login screen.

The ultimate solution was a re-install.

They should rename it PissedYa

Madhu Maruti · 09-23-2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker Moore

OK, I researched and rediscovered the issue that was bothering me. I think I'll be alarmist from the start.

BE CAREFUL IF YOU NEED TO RESIZE YOUR VISTA PARTITION!

Changes were apparently made to NTFS for Vista which rendered many partition resizing apps useless. Vista would often become unbootable, and had to be reinstalled.

The solution to this however is within Vista itself.

Click the Windows button > Right click My Computer > Select Manage.

This will open the Computer Management console.

Then select 'Disk Management' under the Storage branch.

You should then be able to right click your main hard drive and select Shrink Volume.

So, if you want to make 50GB of space available for Linux, you would enter 51200 (MB), hit OK, and the partition will be resized within minutes.
Play safe and back up your data first though!

You may find this B KB MB GB Converter useful if you want to be precise.

I created a Ubuntu partition on my Vista drive and had no problems afterwards booting into Vista. I don't know if I was lucky, or if the partitioner in the latest Ubuntu build just knows how to handle this.

All I did was: I backed up my data and defragged my Vista drive. Then I installed Unbuntu 8.0.something using the installer disk image available from the Ubuntu site. That installer ran a partitioner and I just selected the size partition I wanted for Ubuntu and let it do its thing. It all just worked.

Lucifer Baphomet · 09-23-2008, 03:39 PM

Linux was created by penguins using slave labour.

09-22-2008, 01:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
Natalie P. lol wut Have a fhtagn day! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,020 SL Join Date: 11/2006 My Mood:	To be honest, I don't know much about getting your iPod to talk to a Linux comp, just because I don't have one, so I've never looked into it. And most of my knowledge is filtered through my very own personal sysadmin (aka, my husband), but I'll try to help as best as I can! __________________ "Here I am once more in this scene of dissipation and vice, and I begin already to find my morals corrupted." - Jane Austen Validate me, dammit!

09-23-2008, 11:40 AM	#9 (permalink)
Walker Moore The Son of Avatar Hiding Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 8,105 Doom Rider Champion! My Mood:	Hey, can I join in with a couple of questions? I'm actually a seasoned Linux user, having lots of experience with Gentoo until a couple of years ago, but all this talk of Ubuntu has got me wanting to petition off a 250GB chunk of my primary hard drive and installing it. I've heard of problems installing Linux after Vista though. Something to do with the Vista petition becoming useless and the OS having to be reinstalled. Can anybody confirm this? Also, there is a x64 edition of Ubuntu isn't there? With KDE 4 as the primary WM? __________________ twitter \| last.fm \| flickr

09-23-2008, 03:39 PM	#18 (permalink)
Lucifer Baphomet Pampers Io Zenophile Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Darkmere Posts: 6,515 Business: Radio Free Darkmere	Linux was created by penguins using slave labour. __________________

09-23-2008, 10:07 AM	#7 (permalink)
Madhu Maruti Blue in hue Kickin' it at the cafe Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 517 SL Join Date: Nov 2007 Business: Madhu's Cafe My Mood:	I don't mind using the command line but Synaptic is easier and more comfortable. I don't really care if the command line runs "a bit faster" because I am slower in using it so there's not really a gain there. I probably won't have time to play with my Ubuntu build this week, but in addition to futzing with Wine and seeing if I can get iTunes working and talking to my iPod, here are a few other matters I have had some trouble with: * Playing media. I haven't put a lot of work into this yet, but I hoped it would "just work" and it didn't. I popped in a DVD, and let whatever default application run that wanted to. It needed a codec, of course, so I downloaded the codec, but the DVD still would not play. I haven't tried a different DVD, different codec, different player, or anything yet, so I still have a ways to go before I give up on this. * Wireless. Getting my wireless to work was a bitch and it's even more flakey than it was in Windows, which is truly saying something. It was a big hassle to find the right drivers for my card and get them installed. (It was also my first time dealing with restricted software after I got Ubuntu running so part of the problem was that I was still getting my head around the concept.) It won't connect at all unless the signal strength is up around 75%, which is pretty damn rare, even inside my own house. And even when it does connect, it sometimes randomly disconnects. This is incredibly frustrating as it is the one thing that could really be a dealbreaker for me. I have to be able to connect reliably to my own network, and I have no idea how to fix it. * Dual displays. I have a little impromptu docking station at home where I plug the laptop into a keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Under Ubuntu the keyboard and mouse just worked, which was nice. I had to do some fighting to get the external display to work at all. But I cannot figure out how to get it to work as an extended desktop. It insists on cloning the laptop display, even when I uncheck "clone display" in the display properties dialogue box. As near as I can tell, the "Detect displays" button in the dialogue box does nothing. My laptop, by the way, is a Dell Inspiron 1521. I don't think it's a great piece of hardware. I probably won't buy a Dell next time. But it's only 1 year old and I'm hoping not to buy another new computer for two more years.

09-23-2008, 12:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
Madhu Maruti Blue in hue Kickin' it at the cafe Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 517 SL Join Date: Nov 2007 Business: Madhu's Cafe My Mood:	Thanks, Aodhan. I tried something like that - I added a virtual display to xorg.conf, but it did not work - it just made the display bigger than the monitor, and placed that identical display on both monitors. But I didn't do the xrandr part - I will try that - but I don't really understand what you have typed there. Is that something to enter on the command line? what would be "(whatever your default mode is)"? Can you please unpack it a bit? ETA: oh, I see - by "mode" you mean resolution for the single laptop display? Would I need to enter these commands every time I docked or undocked the laptop? There's no way to autodetect (as it does in Windows)? One more question - I don't have two identical monitors, I have a laptop and a desktop monitor with two different resolutions. So using this method seems pretty klugey; it will end up with either part of one of the monitors not being used, or, part of the virtual desktop not being displayed. Is there a way to handle that? I hate to say it, but all of this "just works" in Windows - the system detects the two monitors correctly and can create an extended desktop even though they have two different resolutions. Is this not possible in Ubuntu?

09-23-2008, 03:33 PM	#15 (permalink)
Sobriquet Kryakutnoy Foul Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,074 Business: I Go Chop Your Dollar My Mood: Awards: 1	Vista is extremely touchy. I installed VMWare Fusion, booted Vista (from my second partition, typically run natively via Boot Camp) inside of it once, and after that point every time I tried booting Vista it would just throw back an error that critical system files had been tampered with while Vista was not running, and that I needed to re-check my WGA authentication. The kicker? It gave me instructions on how to re-check WGA, but would refuse to launch the Explorer process, and if I dismissed the warning it just kicked me back out to a login screen. The ultimate solution was a re-install.