Lecktor Hannibal

Should have been the solution in the first place. Period.

LL has historically done this over and over.

Price gouging extraordinaire.

Darien Caldwell

I really do have to agree with this. Those changes did make openspaces take off at a much faster pace than they ever had before. And to many it felt like a green light to use them as they are being used now.

Gigs

Maybe a little. I put a warning on mine (in the covenant) and when people asked if it would be a good place to do big gatherings of people I told them no. If anyone really misrepresented openspaces, that should be treated as fraud and action should be taken against those people.

But LL created the overall demand here. We were forced to fill that demand, because standard islands weren't really renting as well anymore.

The key for a lot of people is that openspaces offer the only real privacy in SL. As prokofy says, they are "humper bunkers". That's a very compelling thing that Linden Lab has not provided in any way, shape, or form, anywhere else in SL. LL created a compelling product offering when they stopped requiring them to be connected to other islands. You can't blame people too much for giving customers what they wanted.

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Gabriele Graves

Neither do I but this communication is not speaking an opinion which would be fine - I do agree with Darien that it shows a Linden giving a resident who called concierge chat a clear impression that openspaces could be used in a resell/rent environment in a way that is likely to end up being offered to people wanting homes.

Dancien Graves

I had a store, a small club, and a home on an OpenSpace Sim. at any given point I had maybe 1500 prims left. And at any given point my OpenSpace sim was a hell of a lot less laggy than their precious mainland.

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Gabriele Graves

I understand what people wanted from them and still do but it was clear to some of us, me included that openspaces were not that product. *shrugs* I fail to see how much clearer LL could have made it.

Gigs

Most of mine are people's "homes". "Homes" usually are light use. The only exceptions I've seen are people with animated "pets" that roam around. Those usually suck the resources.

But "homes" usually means the region is empty most of the time. Agents/traffic easily use way more resources than fixed items most of the time.

I run a sandbox and I have had a chance to see plenty of avatars and the loads they cause. It's not unusual to see an avatar wearing 6+ ms of script load, and way more polygons than any house build.

Edit- To clarify, I mean 1 home per region, not split up into multiple people's "homes" in one openspace.

Gigs

Yes, I think this is typical. It is typical of the openspaces I rent out anyway. On top of that there's almost always less than 3 agents in the regions.

Gabriele Graves

Maybe you got lucky with your 15 neighbours though? Obviously you were doing something right, but you are being punished for the abuses of others, not your own.
I have already stated i find that very harsh.
I own in several areas of mainland, lag is overstated. I have had just as much or more at private islands. As usual it depends on where you are and what others are doing. Not all mainland is as bad as is popular to repeat.

Siyu Suen

Why don't they actually limit the usage, rather than making it a rough guideline? Like I said in my post, why can't they put a hard limit on the amount of avatars that's invariable (unlike on a normal sim where you can set the limit to 100 if you want), and automatically shut off any script running at a certain speed? It's quite obvious that regulation isn't their plan, and they'd rather use the minority that's mis-using them as a scape goat to raise prices without any real, visible or tangible improvement.

Grrrrrrr

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Gigs

It's because they don't know how to fix [#SVC-2219] Cyclic time dilation especially apparent on openspaces. - Second Life Issues

It started when they put Havok 4 in. And was completely not an issue before Havok 4

Gabriele Graves

This kind of thing has been discussed on the scripting mailing list for limiting scripts though not with a focus for openspaces. I think the problem is very hard to solve for scripts and avs themselve are not a huge problem. It is the scripted objects they wear and the heavy prims worn etc.
The avs could be limited just fine but that would not necessarily stop script abuse. Determining what is fine and not breaking content is a delicate balancing act and one that it was clear from the mailing list that LL is acting cautiously over.

Dancien Graves

lag is more certainly not overstated on the mainland. 9 out of 10 times I crash due to lag. Mainland. I purposefully avoid Mainland stores and clubs (Darkmere being the exception) due to the lag.

Gabriele Graves

I monitor performance in the sims I reside in and unless there is a grid wide problem my sim stats look just fine the majority of the time.
Granted I live on the nicer parts of mainland but anyone can pick and choose.
Having said that I also travel a lot of mainland areas very often and very rarely crash. I do find some areas far laggier than others though.
Perhaps there is something else that is crashing your configuration?

@ All, I need to leave this discussion due to RL, I just wanted to say that I sympathise a lot with those who are affected by all this, it is not something that you want to login to find one day and I do think LL could as ever handle it far better. I really hope they relent on the declared course of action.

Dancien Graves

back when I bothered to be a premium member I got the CSR response that my computer was apparently "too good to run SL properly"

Siyu Suen

You know what? I'd rather scripts be completely and utterly shut down and turned off and disallowed on open space sims, than see my friends and fellow business owners evicted through these shenannigans. I'm sure people could live without fireflies and animated art frames if it meant keeping their homes.

Gabriele Graves

Some computers do seem more prone to problems than others sadly and nobody seems to know why. It sucks big time but I will have to leave discussing the viewer quality with you for another time - got to scoot, bye everyone.

Cristiano

You hit the nail on the head - those who are not misusing them are being punished with a backdoor obscene raise in prices. Next thing you know they are going to raise mainland tier out of some excuse as well. Also a $375 setup fee??? For what???

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Cocoanut Koala

Well, get ready, because we are going to have our own BOHICA's.

When the stock markets crashed, I thought one silver lining was at least LL would have more sense than to raise tier.

Obviously, I was wrong, as regards the open spaces. So - next up: The mainland.

A smart person would unload all their land while the unloading is good. That is - BEFORE they raise tier on the mainland. Which is, now. Me, I know that, but I figure that I will just abandon it when worst comes to worst, and call it all the cost of entertainment.

Tell ya what - LL may figure that SL is so important to us that we will go ahead and pay higher money for our land. And I'm sure that is true for some.

But I has seen the writing on the wall! haha. When I get to the point where I'm pinching pennies for the bad times ahead, and I'm doing that in a huge way right now, you can figure it is probably going to be some bad times.

(Not that I think our pennies are going to be worth anything in the future anyway, but just in case they are, I figure I should start stockpiling them now.)

So I think they are going to lose on this gamble. Which brings me to my next theory: That they know that, but they want to get all the money from it they can before they lose the game. At the point where they do start to lose, then it's game over, and meanwhile, they will have dredged a bit more money out of it.

The land situation does NOT look good, anywhere.

coco

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Charlemagne Allen

This change looks lik it will be as popular and as pleasant as a prostrate exams: it just shows that LL doesn't know how to run a community at all.

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Cocoanut Koala

Reading the blog now. I agree with the person who says this is bait-and-switch. I realize you could make perfectly legitimate legal arguments that it isn't, but it looks and feels an AWFUL lot like bait and switch to me.

If nothing else, it tells ya not to trust them.

coco

Gigs

Prostrate exam: "You're going to want to lie down for this one"

Gigs

I think you could make a pretty compelling legal argument that you have a tortuous injury here.

The right to use a region is an asset. It's a limited license right that can be transferred, subleased, and generally has value as an intangible asset.

If Linden Lab damages the value of that asset for their own gain, then you could pretty easily sue I'd say. Your intangible asset was impaired by the willful actions of another.

I'm no lawyer, but I think that's a pretty solid case. Way way more solid than a lot of class-action suits out there!

Khamon

On the bright side, that'll give a chance to support Gabriele with our complete lack of empathy during a shocked and trying ordeal.

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