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Old 07-05-2017, 02:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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sinespace - News & Updates!

Hey everyone ,

So, it's been a while since I last talked about space in here, first up: we're renaming to sinespace - and we've got a pretty new logo.

For those who haven't heard about sinespace/space yet - we're a new virtual world, built ground-up by a bunch of virtual world veterans. We're focused on a bunch of things, including taking down a lot of arbitrary limits (our creators get a lot of control over how end users experience things), making things easier for creators (we have automatic rigging & weighting for clothing!), content security (we were hurt very badly by pirates in other virtual worlds, so we're keen not to repeat things) - and overall giving a real next-gen virtual world experience.

sinespace - News & Updates!-newspacelogo-mini.png

Second; in the past few months we've been busy and in no particular order, we've added:

sinespace - News & Updates!-z14.jpg

Scripting!
We've added support for Lua (and for people who operate grids, C# is finally on it's way as well). Our API is pretty comprehensive, and we've slowly begun putting proper examples for everything up on our wiki.

New Inworld Building & Placement Tools (more coming!)
We added our new Floorplan editor a few months ago, but basically this is a inworld building and customisation tool, which allows you to place items in a region that uses Floorplan, the same way you would in something else - it also has support for extra nice-to-haves, like the ability for creators to indicate which areas of content should snap together (like walls to a floor), and set options on things (like toggles for lighting, etc. in nice easy to use ways).

sinespace - News & Updates!-postchain.jpg

sinespace - News & Updates!-morebodysliders.jpg

Body Sliders, Better Avatars! (new today!)
New in the 6.30 viewer, we've overhauled our base avatars (there'll be some more updates coming here soon though as well), and added support for body morphs. A lot of body morphs. About 160 morphs in total, across about 88 sliders. Neat thing: they work on clothing. Neater thing: creators don't need to do a thing to support it, and as we add more sliders, they'll continue to get support with existing clothing.

Quests & NPC building for RP/other designers
You can now make and design big narrative structures using a node-based tool, so you can define big branching nodes, and interact with cutscenes and NPCs. If you're building something narrative driven, we've got some really neat tools for this (we've also added more to them over time since the first release.)

sinespace - News & Updates!-34623401080_3189f954e3_k.jpg

New "Post Processing" effects for higher quality regions.
We've integrated a really nice post stack into our viewer, which lets you do things as a creator like desaturate the image, add vignetting or volumetric lighting. You can completely morph and control how the scene is rendered for people who visit your regions (also most of this is exposed to scripting too).

New camera controls, UI improvements, more settings and configurability.
Lots of small improvements here, but we've added new controls (Alt+R-Click controls them, we will add a toggle for L-Click soon too), new avatar name tags, improvements to the settings window, and a bunch more. More coming.

Better support for older computers (settings window can drastically increase the framerate now, to the point that 10-year old PCs can work)
In the settings window, we've added a ton of options, which if you switch all the way down, allows space to run at a pretty snappy pace, even on an old machine. We also try pick sensible defaults for mobile GPUs as well, that helps keep the framerate higher.

A bunch of new building components including revamped vendors and a few other things.
We're posting release notes in our forum for the viewers (the latest ones will be posted tomorrow), but there's a ton of other bits and pieces which people should have fun using.

We're as usual, open to feedback and suggestions for new features you want to see us add. We are pretty receptive to it (most of these features actually came because of requests); although we've got some really cool stuff to announce soon.

For creators/developers, we've also got tutorials for most of those features up on youtube (more are in the pipe). But for everyone, new features like the new body sliders & character customisation, are available today. (Grab the new 0.6.30 viewer from our downloads page for Mac/Linux & Windows)

sinespace - News & Updates!-sdn14.jpg

We're still (always) on the look out for new creators, and people interested in checking things out; but I thought it'd be a good time to update everyone with what we've been up to.

There's also tons of info on our spiffy new developer website (although with the latest update, we're going to have to update it again!)
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Old 07-05-2017, 02:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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And they have cloth physics too! You need to have the downloaded viewer for that, not the web browser version but it's well worth it! I couldn't believe it the first time I saw my coat moving naturally around me as I walked. Very realistic! It's hard to believe how much of a difference that can make.

Looks like the avatars are coming along but I still haven't seen any pics that look better than SL avatars. However, it is very reassuring to know that anything made for the current avatars will work with newer ones.
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Old 07-05-2017, 02:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagin Illyar View Post
Looks like the avatars are coming along but I still haven't seen any pics that look better than SL avatars. However, it is very reassuring to know that anything made for the current avatars will work with newer ones.
Our base skins are a bit primitive - but using the new shading we've added, properly designed skins should look stunning.
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Old 07-05-2017, 08:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I've one really big question; How is adult content going to be handled, if at all?
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Wow Adam, I just logged in for the first time. The web interface crashed on the loading screen but the desktop version works beautifully.

That is amazing! So much detail. Such smooth movement.

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Old 07-05-2017, 10:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Adam, I tried out the new desktop client. Is there a reason it would try to launch the VR version? It made Oculus Home and Steam VR pop up, but in the desktop client, I had a weird UI and couldn't do anything. I had to stop the Oculus service to get it to launch without trying to do VR.
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Old 07-06-2017, 12:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aribeth Zelin View Post
I've one really big question; How is adult content going to be handled, if at all?
It is supported - but you do need to contact us if you're creating this. We've got a arrangement in progress for how this is going to work.

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Adam, I tried out the new desktop client. Is there a reason it would try to launch the VR version? It made Oculus Home and Steam VR pop up, but in the desktop client, I had a weird UI and couldn't do anything. I had to stop the Oculus service to get it to launch without trying to do VR.
There is a reason it'd try launch the VR version - SteamVR support got left on from my test builds by mistake (but not the rest of it). Fixing it in the next hotfix which should be tomorrow.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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It is supported - but you do need to contact us if you're creating this. We've got a arrangement in progress for how this is going to work.
Well, right now, I more want to know how to access it - I'm taking a bit of time off from serious creating to go ahead and fill in gaps in my knowledge, so my work going forward is better. But I expect that I'll be contacting you guys soon enough.
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Old 07-06-2017, 10:16 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Oh this looks interesting.

ETA: Made my acount iŽll get some free time over weekend to try it properly, i have so many questions
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Old 07-07-2017, 04:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
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There is a reason it'd try launch the VR version - SteamVR support got left on from my test builds by mistake (but not the rest of it). Fixing it in the next hotfix which should be tomorrow.
The 0.7.07 viewer we just pushed today should have that fix, however I do have a dedicated VR build available if you want to give it a try. I've only tested on HTC Vive as it requires controllers. If you've got Oculus Touch controllers, it should work on Oculus, but it is untested.
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Old 07-09-2017, 11:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Adam - I've heard that Space takes 30% of all sales? Is that true?
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Old 07-09-2017, 11:55 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Our base skins are a bit primitive - but using the new shading we've added, properly designed skins should look stunning.
If I were Space, I'd contract a good skin designer and hair designer and pay them to make several high quality versions for your starter avatars.
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Old 07-10-2017, 05:29 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Adam - I've heard that Space takes 30% of all sales? Is that true?
We do - but before it sounds too scary, let me make a couple of points for 'why' that hopefully make sense.

- Our land fees are lower than everything else, your first region/sim is free, subsequent ones cost a lot less (if you buy in bulk; 10 regions is $70/mo)

- There's no fees/etc for selling in the central marketplace (and we're planning on making that a bit more of a interesting place, with built-in support for things like features & promotions).

- With no land fees, end-users have a lot more money to spend on content. This should balance things out quite a lot - where people were spending 50%+ of their spending on land, that's now free for content.

It also means people who e.g. sell Furniture, are no longer selling to only 10% of the population who own land. (Everyone has a free region, and the in-world build tools are optimised for furnishing buildings easily).

- We wanted to structure our pricing in such a way that we're heavily reliant on creators selling lots of content. This ties our success directly to our creators/merchants.

- We're taking a much more active role with creator/merchant relations as a result; this means we've got a strong incentive to keep people happy, and to handle things like piracy swiftly and responsibly; we do want to earn our fee.
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Old 07-10-2017, 06:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
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We do - but before it sounds too scary, let me make a couple of points for 'why' that hopefully make sense.

- Our land fees are lower than everything else, your first region/sim is free, subsequent ones cost a lot less (if you buy in bulk; 10 regions is $70/mo)

- There's no fees/etc for selling in the central marketplace (and we're planning on making that a bit more of a interesting place, with built-in support for things like features & promotions).

- With no land fees, end-users have a lot more money to spend on content. This should balance things out quite a lot - where people were spending 50%+ of their spending on land, that's now free for content.

It also means people who e.g. sell Furniture, are no longer selling to only 10% of the population who own land. (Everyone has a free region, and the in-world build tools are optimised for furnishing buildings easily).

- We wanted to structure our pricing in such a way that we're heavily reliant on creators selling lots of content. This ties our success directly to our creators/merchants.

- We're taking a much more active role with creator/merchant relations as a result; this means we've got a strong incentive to keep people happy, and to handle things like piracy swiftly and responsibly; we do want to earn our fee.
This makes sense for bigger content creators but I'm not so sure about those getting started.

In SL I run an estate. It's residential but I allow light-traffic commercial in sky boxes. I have quite a few people who have that kind of small shop. They make enough to pay for their land tiers and shopping.

For every big creator that makes a living in SL there are a hundred smaller ones who take little or no money out of SL at all, yet they all contribute to the economy.

A 30% tax across the board may make Space a prohibitive place for people getting started. ALL of the big creators in SL were once startups who did not need much in the way of land or expenses to get going. Yes, they won't have to pay for land tiers, but new creators don't have a sim, they either rent a tiny plot of land and live on the ground with a small shop in the sky or they have no residential land at all and just rent a tiny shop space on established commerical land.

It's just my opinion, of course, but I think that Space would get more people if they offered a scaled tax - those who make less pay less, and those who make more pay more - up to the 30%.
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
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In SL I run an estate. It's residential but I allow light-traffic commercial in sky boxes. I have quite a few people who have that kind of small shop. They make enough to pay for their land tiers and shopping.

For every big creator that makes a living in SL there are a hundred smaller ones who take little or no money out of SL at all, yet they all contribute to the economy.
In our model - those users, should be generating a profit from day one (i.e. they don't need to even hit small tier values - they should be earning on every sale). The model in theory works best for smaller creators actually (as they have higher fixed overheads as a percentage of sales).

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It's just my opinion, of course, but I think that Space would get more people if they offered a scaled tax - those who make less pay less, and those who make more pay more - up to the 30%.
It's definitely an idea to consider - but my problem with this is it punishes success, we'd have to raise the total amount a little higher to compensate for the lower in-take at the low-end; and finally it'd give us a perverse incentive to only assist the top end creators (not that we'd be setting out to do that, but long term it might not be a safe incentive to have on the books).
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:58 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Is the Sinespace grid an example of what the new Sansara grid is supposed to be like?
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:58 AM   #17 (permalink)
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It's just my opinion, of course, but I think that Space would get more people if they offered a scaled tax - those who make less pay less, and those who make more pay more - up to the 30%.
Technically, a percentage tax already is scaled. In other words, if I make $10 dollars, I'm only paying 3 of that for sales - if I'm making 1000 I'm paying 300.

Percentages are fair.

And honestly, Sinespace seems much better set up for people to find things on their MP, and much less work to make something that people can use. I'm hoping that I might have much better luck there, and am really looking forward to seeing if I'm right.

----

Adam, another question. If I wanted to have multiple brands, can I in fact have them on one account, or would I need alts? For that matter, what is the alt policy?
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:04 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Is the Sinespace grid an example of what the new Sansara grid is supposed to be like?

Sinespace is using Unity engine and is entirely its own thing. Sansar is still under NDA I think, but it is its own engine from the ground up.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:05 AM   #19 (permalink)
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In our model - those users, should be generating a profit from day one (i.e. they don't need to even hit small tier values - they should be earning on every sale). The model in theory works best for smaller creators actually (as they have higher fixed overheads as a percentage of sales).

It's definitely an idea to consider - but my problem with this is it punishes success, we'd have to raise the total amount a little higher to compensate for the lower in-take at the low-end; and finally it'd give us a perverse incentive to only assist the top end creators (not that we'd be setting out to do that, but long term it might not be a safe incentive to have on the books).
Good points. I guess I just didn't see it that way in my initial 30% sticker shock I do see your points though, they are good ones. If there is no other cost at all other than the 30% and the marketing is good and the tools are good - it's all good.
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Adam, another question. If I wanted to have multiple brands, can I in fact have them on one account, or would I need alts? For that matter, what is the alt policy?
Yes, you can add multiple brands on a single account - there's a free-form 'brand' field on the upload form, but all of them can be tied to just one account.

Alts: allowed for non-abusive purposes. i.e. if you create alts purely for the purpose of evading bans or harassing people, then no. If you've got another reason, it's fine.

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Sinespace is using Unity engine and is entirely its own thing. Sansar is still under NDA I think, but it is its own engine from the ground up.
Yeah - correct, we're using Unity, which as a perk, gives us the continual benefits of the 2000 employees over at Unity Technologies working hard on the core rendering/physics tech we're using in Sinespace.

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Good points. I guess I just didn't see it that way in my initial 30% sticker shock I do see your points though, they are good ones. If there is no other cost at all other than the 30% and the marketing is good and the tools are good - it's all good.
Yeah - we'd hope that the benefits outweigh the costs; the big one I think is just the pure 'we're not profiting unless you are' angle; it gives us a huge incentive to do better.
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:52 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Yeah - we'd hope that the benefits outweigh the costs; the big one I think is just the pure 'we're not profiting unless you are' angle; it gives us a huge incentive to do better.
This is huge. Imagine how much better SL would be if they didn't profit unless their creators did.

I still think you guys should hire a really good skin & hair designer to make a few better starter avatar options though
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:53 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I still think you guys should hire a really good skin & hair designer to make a few better starter avatar options though
I am open to this! If anyone is volunteering, I'd be happy to arrange a fair priced commission for our starter avatars. The new UV maps we've got on our base models should be really easy for skin creators to work with.
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:45 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I've got about 150 more lectures on this course, and I'm averaging about 10 a day, I think? I have to make a little time to work on something for what's likely my last SL event, and then I'll focus on figuring out the specifics for Sinespace and Unity on the model end of things [my unity course has been focused on C#].

And I'd thought that was the case, but its usually best to ask rather than assume [and it helps others learn the answers too].

Oh, yeah - I'm usually an alt hound for different character concepts - probably stems from years of tabletop and MMOs.
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Old 07-11-2017, 12:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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When will SineSpace have RLV ? lol
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Old 07-11-2017, 01:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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When will SineSpace have RLV ? lol
Haha, as soon as someone writes a similar script. It's possible I think to implement much of that in scripting (i.e. disabling avatar movement, etc.).
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