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Old 04-23-2018, 12:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Is Sansar DOA?

The sound of silence when it comes to Sansar is deafening. Has it managed to make any kind of an impact at all? Each time I go back, I'm impressed by the quality of the work people have done, and that's it. Nothing major has improved with the UI, the thugly avatars, or the lack of any kind of point to the whole thing. I really want it to succeed, but it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I too am a little disheartened about the lack of news wrt Sansar. The last news we did get was that a few very good and useful features were being added....but, that was a while ago. Has there been no progress since then?
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Sansar has already came and went, and I don't think anyone aside from maybe Linden Lab is surprised. You can't hype up then release an unfinished product that doesn't even offer the basic functionality of its predecessor.

Even if it becomes amazing later on, with a poor launch, you've already flopped. Best case scenario most of the time when this happens is that you end up with enough of a stable user base to still end up with a profit.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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If the VR goggles don't become a mainstream thing within a few years, Sansar doesn't even have a chance to serve a decent niche market.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelissa Cortes View Post
Sansar has already came and went, and I don't think anyone aside from maybe Linden Lab is surprised. You can't hype up then release an unfinished product that doesn't even offer the basic functionality of its predecessor.
Sansar was never promoted by LL as a successor or "new version" of Second Life, because it was never intended to be that. SL residents built all that hype themselves from the beginning, and stuck to it obstinately even in the face of LL repeatedly making statements otherwise; so it's no surprise they were all disappointed.

I wasn't disappointed that Sansar isn't Second Life with newer graphics. I never expected to go to clubs and fishing contests in Sansar. I did hope for a little more communication and publicity about it, though.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:05 AM   #6 (permalink)
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If the VR goggles don't become a mainstream thing within a few years, Sansar doesn't even have a chance to serve a decent niche market.
Yes. Even phone VR goggles are meh right now. Those have the absolute lowest barrier to entry. Not many people are going to pony up a much higher cost to get a dedicated VR system. If VR systems want to have mass market appeal right now the best solution is to find a way to support phone goggles.



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Sansar was never promoted by LL as a successor or "new version" of Second Life, because it was never intended to be that. SL residents built all that hype themselves from the beginning, and stuck to it obstinately even in the face of LL repeatedly making statements otherwise; so it's no surprise they were all disappointed.

I wasn't disappointed that Sansar isn't Second Life with newer graphics. I never expected to go to clubs and fishing contests in Sansar. I did hope for a little more communication and publicity about it, though.
Rightly or wrongly that was the perception that was out there though. That view was supported by the fact that it has looked like SL has been going on pure inertia for years, almost like SL people were being coaxed over to sansar, despite what LL publicly said.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I've visited a few times, found it too similar to Blue Mars, and still expect little more from it. (._.)
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:44 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I know Sansar doesn't reauire VR, and I feel like a broken record some, but I still say that VR is like 3D TV. Its "neat" but it isn't ever going to go anywhere because it required too much focus, especially for today's ADD user.

You can't watch Netflix while in it, or check your phone notifications, or run a web browers next to it, etc etc. It also demmands a pretty hefty set up of equipment to use properly, and the vast majority of consumers have zero concept of "GPU".

Which also hurts Sansar some, because the person building a VR rig is probably going to be more likely to want a bad ass FPS game in VR or really quality VR Porn, than to go look at a bunch of 3D art exhibits.

There is some merit to the idea of getting it to work on phone basef VR, since its easy, except that creates a lot of issues around controls, because getting controllers working and "jist works evertyime" working on phones is kind of a nightmare.
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm still kinda blank on LL's vision for Sansar success. LL is relying on Sansar creators to create fascinating 3D interactive environments & games that attract users. So far, most experiences there are pretty static. But LL seems to be creating tools to animate environments, so experiences can interact with visitors more meaningfully. OK, cool. But even if a creator makes a really cool experience that's different every time you go, is LL counting on the creator to promote that experience themselves, bringing users into Sansar? That would only work for creators that already have BIG social media presences.

The only strategy for success I see here is if they build up Sansar enough and keep their employee base slender, LL could sell the company, or perhaps just the technology, to a large corporation that wants to use the tool to build their own VR. That would be quite the slap in the face for Sansar early adopters! But Disney has built their own 3D world already, lol.

Personally, I think Philip Rosedale was right about 3D VR. His original vision for High Fidelity was that if he could get the latency low enough and avatar faces & interactions varied enough, HiFi would attract users who wanted to safely connect with people outside of their current social circle in immersive ways. Which is to say, a huge portion of humanity; the same target market as SL. HiFI, not Sansar, would be the true VR successor to SL.

No idea if HF is still pursuing that vision; have a vague impression that the technology hasn't quite worked out. That's what happens when you rely on volunteers and gig economy to do big engineering tasks.

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Old 04-23-2018, 10:48 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
Sansar was never promoted by LL as a successor or "new version" of Second Life, because it was never intended to be that. SL residents built all that hype themselves from the beginning, and stuck to it obstinately even in the face of LL repeatedly making statements otherwise; so it's no surprise they were all disappointed.
I distinctly recall some dialog from LL early on that said it may be possible to roll your inventory over into Sansar. I'm sure that's been abandoned now, but it did lay the foundation that Sansar would be SL 2.0 in a lot of people's minds.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:28 AM   #11 (permalink)
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The one thing that's keeping me from trying Sansar is no client for Linux. I could install Windows on my main system, but emails from LL proudly announcing newest "features" such as the ability to sit has reduced my enthusiasm to 'meh .... maybe next year'.
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:08 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
Sansar was never promoted by LL as a successor or "new version" of Second Life, because it was never intended to be that. SL residents built all that hype themselves from the beginning, and stuck to it obstinately even in the face of LL repeatedly making statements otherwise; so it's no surprise they were all disappointed.
I'm well aware that it was never suppose to be a "Second Life 2", and have usually been the one to point that out when it's come up. I never expected it to be myself, but it still stands that it was suppose to be Linden Lab's next big thing, their new virtual place to get all the attention. Sansar had big shoes to fill, and despite what it was meant to be, everyone was hoping it would at least be comparable. It is not, and fails terribly because of that.

Remember that Second Life is not what Linden Lab hoped it would be, and promoted it as. They wanted internet 2.0 where everyone logs in to virtual business meetings, what they got was something else entirely.
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You can't watch Netflix while in it, or check your phone notifications, or run a web browers next to it, etc etc.
I just want to point out that you can both use a browser and watch Netflix in VR. The virtual theater programs are kind of fun in a gimmicky sort of way, but in the end I still prefer both Netflix and my browser on a side monitor in good old fashion real life.

VR is neat, but I very much feel like it's something you have to set aside time for and enter, that headset cuts everything else off.
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
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VR is neat, but I very much feel like it's something you have to set aside time for and enter, that headset cuts everything else off.


The tech/hardware/bandwidth demands of Sansar are pretty high for a desktop computer, at a time when people are moving to laptops, tablets and smartphones as their primary means of accessing the internet. This reduces Sansar's potential user base considerably and also makes me wonder to what extent VR will ever become anything more than a novelty or specialty technology.

The average person doesn't want or need a desktop computer. What they want is access to email, Facebook, Netflix, and cat videos. What they need is a device -- like a tablet of smartphone -- that requires little set-up expertise. It just works. And it's something they can pick up, glance at, then put down or slide into their pocket while they do a myriad of other tasks.
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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emails from LL proudly announcing newest "features" such as the ability to sit has reduced my enthusiasm to 'meh .... maybe next year'.
OH MY GOD WE CAN SIT NOW???? IMMA LOG IN RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!!!!
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The tech/hardware/bandwidth demands of Sansar are pretty high for a desktop computer, at a time when people are moving to laptops, tablets and smartphones as their primary means of accessing the internet. This reduces Sansar's potential user base considerably and also makes me wonder to what extent VR will ever become anything more than a novelty or specialty technology.

The average person doesn't want or need a desktop computer. What they want is access to email, Facebook, Netflix, and cat videos. What they need is a device -- like a tablet of smartphone -- that requires little set-up expertise. It just works. And it's something they can pick up, glance at, then put down or slide into their pocket while they do a myriad of other tasks.
Oculus is releasing a standalone headset called the Oculus Go, that is of a higher quality than the headsets that use a smartphone (Samsung Gear, Google Cardboard, etc..), with a price point expected to be $199. Having used the Samsung Gear, while not as compelling as the Oculus Rift, it was a pretty great experience, especially since it is totally wireless. If Oculus gets aggressive with the Go, it will open up the experience to a much wider audience.

https://www.techradar.com/news/oculu...s-and-features

I am all in on VR - it is not a fad. Experiencing it on a Rift was a transformational experience for me. The success of the Playstation VR headset is also testament to the fact there is a market (I hated the Playstation VR personally, it was a huge disappointment) there - and hopefully the Oculus Go will expand that market even more.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
Sansar was never promoted by LL as a successor or "new version" of Second Life, because it was never intended to be that. SL residents built all that hype themselves from the beginning, and stuck to it obstinately even in the face of LL repeatedly making statements otherwise; so it's no surprise they were all disappointed.

I wasn't disappointed that Sansar isn't Second Life with newer graphics. I never expected to go to clubs and fishing contests in Sansar. I did hope for a little more communication and publicity about it, though.
I never expected it to be a new version of Second Life. However, I did expect it to be something as revolutionary as SL was. Instead, Sansar just seems to be a solution in search of a problem. It has potential, but LL needs to hurry up and figure out what it is supposed to be - because right now it's nothing.

You can't blame SL users for the "hype" about Sansar. You blame LL for its lack of vision and any kind of real messaging around what the hell Sansar actually is.
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Old 04-23-2018, 04:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I just want to add, don't get me wrong when I say VR feels like a fad, at least now.

I really want VR. I would love to have "Ready Player One" or "Snow Crash" be a real thing.
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Old 04-23-2018, 04:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I just want to add, don't get me wrong when I say VR feels like a fad, at least now.

I really want VR. I would love to have "Ready Player One" or "Snow Crash" be a real thing.
It's not a fad, it's just in the early stages. The surprise success of the PSVR has helped propel things along, even if I hate that headset (it's uncomfortable and blurry compared to the Rift). 3D was always kind of a fad that wasn't a paradigm shift, just a parlor trick. VR is something on a completely different level, and even at these early stages, with the right experience, is completely mind blowing. I'm as impressed with it now as I was the first time I put on the Rift headset a year ago.
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Old 04-23-2018, 04:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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It's not a fad, it's just in the early stages. The surprise success of the PSVR has helped propel things along, even if I hate that headset (it's uncomfortable and blurry compared to the Rift). 3D was always kind of a fad that wasn't a paradigm shift, just a parlor trick. VR is something on a completely different level, and even at these early stages, with the right experience, is completely mind blowing. I'm as impressed with it now as I was the first time I put on the Rift headset a year ago.
Eh... I remember "VR" being a thing when I was in like High School. It was all red polygons or whatever and only at arcades but its been trying to be a thing for a while.
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Old 04-23-2018, 04:31 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Eh... I remember "VR" being a thing when I was in like High School. It was all red polygons or whatever and only at arcades but its been trying to be a thing for a while.
That was not real vr. I'm talking about the current gen, which is the first fully immersive vr. It was a gimmick in the 90s. This is the real deal, it's just early.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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this might be a dumb question but.. can one not save your avatar look?

last time i was in, i spent a fair bit of time tweaking my av to something that looks semi not terrible, at least, as much as sansar will allow. and going back in today. there is no saved look that can be recalled.

i can't even be bothered logging in because of having to redo all that. heh.
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Old 04-23-2018, 08:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Old 04-23-2018, 08:51 PM   #24 (permalink)
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My opinion is that VR chat beat them to the punch and they know it.

Even forgetting about Sansar, the drop in traffic in second life when VR Chat was the most popular was very noticeable.

I would drop the comparisons to SL and ask “What is Sansar intended to be that VR Chat does not offer?”

Of course I'm super bias. I'd prefer they forgot about Sansar and focus on Second Life's long term future.

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Old 04-23-2018, 10:09 PM   #25 (permalink)
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My opinion is that VR chat beat them to the punch and they know it.

Even forgetting about Sansar, the drop in traffic in second life when VR Chat was the most popular was very noticeable.

I would drop the comparisons to SL and ask “What is Sansar intended to be that VR Chat does not offer?”

Of course I'm super bias. I'd prefer they forgot about Sansar and focus on Second Life's long term future.
This kind of brings up another good point. Maybe people want to have a VR thing they can run around and MEME in more than looking at pretty static things.
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