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Old 02-03-2018, 12:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Is SL toxic to roleplay?

I have come to the conclusion that it's impossible to have the kind of great roleplay we had in chatrooms before SL. On one hand, the graphic environment is really nice. On another hand, the way we move through what we perceive as three-dimensional space engages our brains in completely different manner than all-text; the proprioceptive-sense is activated. But the gripping-hand is, you gotta pay for the damn sim, and to do that, you have to compromise the roleplay to keep paying customers. Some people take advantage of that to bully, metagame and stomp on other people's roleplay. People start to think that they have ownership or a stake, and it gets political. Until any new initiative, any attempt at innovation only causes drama. So you are forced by the tier to keep the roleplay mundane. I didn't post in the "Why did you leave rp?" because I still roleplay. But my expectations are low, and I know that somebody will give me shit about some stupid shit.

So it raises the question, are there open-source grids, where you can control the sim and not have to pay?
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Giannia Rossini View Post
.

So it raises the question, are there open-source grids, where you can control the sim and not have to pay?
You can run an OpenSIM region, effectively, for free.

Performance may be hindered depending on how free, but you can run it, stand alone, on pretty much anything.

It can also be run relatively cheaply. Right now I am running a region on OSGrid on a Digital Ocean VPS. I pay $5/month, to Digital Ocean.

So a couple of possible scenarios. You mostly roleplay with people you know, its basically always the same people. You are capable of making the region(s) and assets yourself to some level and coule import some of the free stuff floating around. You could get away with doing this pretty much out of your house, for nothing. If it only needs to be on demmand, you could just do it as needed on your computer.

Maybe you have a smaller audience, but you want easier accessibility etc for strangers, but dont expect a lot of traffic. You could also run this out of your house, if you have the bandwidth, and connect it to an existing grid. I like OS Grid, but there are others.

If you want to run a larger operation, or you don't want everything based in your house due to bandwidth or lack of spare hardware, you could always rend a VPS like I do from a provider. There are several, I like Digital Ocean. I already had a VPS running some websites there, so I added one for OpenSIM.

If you are/want to try to be super popular, you could set up and run your own Grid, entirely dedicated to the RP. This would be the most work and expense, though probably still less expensive than even one SL region. You would need to advertise it around to OS forums etc though to attract people. You lose some of the connected ness of being on another grid with an installed user base, sort of. Because of Hpyergrid tech, people from say, OS Grid, could still connect to your grid.

Don't know if that helps.

The short answer is "yes".
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Old 02-03-2018, 07:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Short answer, no. It is not SL, it is you humans, always confusion issues. You start off by asking if SL is toxic to role play, then talk about money, humans, personality conflicts, none which SL created.
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I am not blaming SL. Maybe I should have asked if SL is a toxic roleplay environment, because of the high cost of tier.
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Old 02-03-2018, 09:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Title aside, because I think I understand the question better now, I would say that yes, definitely cost is a major obstacle for any entertainment venue in SL. Role play for sure, but art installations, live music, hangouts... even activities like car racing or sailing.

We’ve all seen different funding models like markets or malls, donation jars or fundraising events, even some subscription based pay to play models, but ultimately the burden falls to the sim owner or small group. This puts the sim owner in a unique hybrid model of being both “the boss” but also a small business owner of sorts that needs to keep their clients happy in order to make the venue viable. I’ve sat for hours on empty sims with owners in this very situation and it never got easier. Give up your vision? Cater to certain groups who can draw more players, keeping your venue alive but still not funded? Or spend all your time managing the business and service side you never get to play?
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Old 02-03-2018, 09:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Money doesn't cause metagaming, godmoding, unpopularity or healing oneself to ridiculous extents and never dying.

SL is not the problem. Some of the people that SL rp attracts is the problem. Selfish, needy, narcissistic, immature. That would be a problem in a text based chatroom.
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Giannia Rossini View Post
So you are forced by the tier to keep the roleplay mundane.
Do RP areas really need to be so big and expensive? I think that's the big trap that dooms a lot of roleplaying sims from the start. Build smaller, build efficiently, build in ways that make it easy to grow or draw back your expenses and then tier isn't hanging over your head all the time. At least not nearly to the levels most RP sim owners are paying.

I've seen great RP areas built using as little as 500 prims. I know we'd all love a multi-sim roleplaying continent, but if the cost of tier is an issue it's one you need to plan around from the start and I've seen a lot of RP sims come and go because they couldn't get enough support to cover their expenses.
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Old 02-09-2018, 06:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Seen worse around the internet RP wise and Lovejournal has possibly biggest record streak of horrid players. Never got a chance to do any tabletop gaming as no one I known done that but also heard some fun gossip.

Why is it more noticeable in SL? Answer is that popular games have same mods or related ones. Not all but essentially those into urban supernatural do which is a narrow category (and yeah - seen sims come and go due to finance or conflicts).

And ... god modding is way more noticeable in SL due to players having more online presence everywhere so we all see the bad side of things and not good one as that is not amusing gossip to read. Since SL folks have more media presence - it also attracts bullying like nothing else plus makes it easier and unlike forum games or chat rooms - passerby's see that.

I done my first and last roleplay in SL , healed me from ever having a will to write anything again. Somehow my main account still gets their spam and yesterday someone sent that "Nasty thought posts aren't very nice and not everyone is a psychic to defend themselves so be considerate of that!" . How is that for godmodding :| ?

But it shows that OP mentioned same problem - loads of people want to boss around minions in a profitable game that is clean and sterile for sponsors and according to their whims (well, any game master influences how plots go but going to guess that power hungry people are provoked more by having control not only of plot but of fashion, landscape, housing, effects, ooc socialisation and so on).

Not sure if we beat WoW as they have even worse reputation for RP .
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Old 02-09-2018, 07:33 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I've known a sim in the past do something along the lines of a Murder Mystery dinner party. There were roles and a general storyline. The sim was set up and there were set times where the majority of interested parties were online. The roleplay story developed over a number of "main sessions". SPlinter groups could action their own back stories along the way at various times and join in on the main days using their sperate experiences to advance the story.

It limited the sim cost exposure as a couple of months was all that was needed. There was a risk of things becoming prescribed and modded to death, but an open attitude and reliable players kept things on track.

Maybe that is how roleplay needs to work in SL?
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
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SL is to text-based RP as LARPing is to tabletop RP.

It's just harder to set up and do stuff in 3d.

We need AI GMs to do all that stuff for us, like they have on the Holodeck.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramen Jedburgh View Post
If you are/want to try to be super popular, you could set up and run your own Grid, entirely dedicated to the RP. This would be the most work and expense, though probably still less expensive than even one SL region. You would need to advertise it around to OS forums etc though to attract people. You lose some of the connected ness of being on another grid with an installed user base, sort of. Because of Hpyergrid tech, people from say, OS Grid, could still connect to your grid.
Just to augment a little of what Ramen said here. There's a couple of ways you can go if you want your own grid.

If you're techy enough to fend off security issues (which are a problem anyway -grid or standalone) are are at least vaguely familiar with Linux (or willing to learn) you can rent a low price standalone from someone like kimsufi or nocix.

I used to go that route and I was paying in the neighborhood of $25-$35 a month.

Or you can go with one of the smaller, hyper-grid connected grids and rent from them. Digiworldz has (had?) a roleplayer's option of renting something like 10 regions for $50.

This would put the security issues in someone else's hands, and give you access to better performing hardware than going with a used dedicated server.

Two of the larger problems with opensim roleplay is the lack of people, and those who are around are spread out over all kinds of time-zones; mostly European.

Oh, and writ large the opensim community is often more toxic than the SL one; though there are pockets of pure awesomeness (Hiya Hya! See ya on hgluv.com )
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:56 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argent Stonecutter View Post
SL is to text-based RP as LARPing is to tabletop RP.

It's just harder to set up and do stuff in 3d.

We need AI GMs to do all that stuff for us, like they have on the Holodeck.
Would say that technology is far too limited (or rather - would take a lot of computing power) - just look at No Man's Sky. Doable but to certain extent so cannot imagine more complex stuff.

I'd go same way OrinB's game did - self governing group expanding plot and lore. Sure, more people needs some rules such as 'do not ride the Ferrari in medieval England' and 'there cannot be 10 prime ministers!' or such. Weirdly you rarely such games as most are absolute pain with over admining and being Orwellian (ahem, unless that is the intent).
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Old 02-09-2018, 02:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Would say that technology is far too limited (or rather - would take a lot of computing power) - just look at No Man's Sky. Doable but to certain extent so cannot imagine more complex stuff.
I didn't try it but I came across a thing yesterday that would generate and rez dungeons. I wonder if you could apply procedurally generated systems used for things like Nethack to something like that.

I don't have it handy but I searched for "pool table" on the MP, and the dungeon HUD was in the store of the top result.
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramen Jedburgh View Post
I didn't try it but I came across a thing yesterday that would generate and rez dungeons. I wonder if you could apply procedurally generated systems used for things like Nethack to something like that.

I don't have it handy but I searched for "pool table" on the MP, and the dungeon HUD was in the store of the top result.
Found it and it is called 'Dungeon Builder' and is by Dustin Gilman. Idea is pretty grand even with user input - developing such engine with assets that would work on various grids would definitely make more open ones popular. Never played Nethack or similar games due to horrid eyes (but never tried on phone - maybe smaller screen will allow me to finally play all those text games...) but just read the premise and I presume you could integrate such scenarios. Experience thing in SL would make it easier but I never looked into LSL beyond copy-pasta scripts (since my skills stop at web developing minus java script xD).

The problem with Open Sim grids is not even reach as I came back to SL when I was looking for a role play to pass time and only SL one fit the tropes I was into. I know plenty people stumbled across it in same manner while never even learning about SL. Then again, same game existed in better form in Unity but was voice only. SL game mods kind of *cough* stole *cough* it's assets (since they are available for download). The issue with Open Sim is lack of resources. People usually have a specific niche - one will just do screenshots, other will be a writer, someone else will do 3d models and last one will script ... so on, so forth. I'd imagine not many players would be willing to learn some of that to just customise character. I wish SL grids worked a bit like whole Nexus network :/ and Loverslab for the naughtier naughty stuff.

Soooo simplifying that would benefit loads like Unity did for niche games (not that I went beyond loading things in it). Building sims in a way you do with those dungeons would be ... like The Sims :| . I liked those...
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Old 03-09-2018, 08:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Has there ever been a good, free avenue for RP? And it doesn't count as free if someone else is paying for it.

...and I can't say I miss old chat rooms since I like visual aids.

I mostly do my role plays with friends who I bring back to my property (or go to theirs). This is the surest way to avoid trolls (unless the friend is a literal troll... see my screen name!).

Of course it's not free to have my own land, but I don't have a better way. Open role play sims can be a great place to meet people, but I don't usually view them as good places to role play by themselves.
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:47 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Well, depending on how nice you like your props it can be free. Its easy enough to slap together even lame looking props. Might be fun for a change of pace to do some sort of Build It Yourself session? And there are plenty of empty sims you could RP in.
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Old 03-10-2018, 08:17 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Has there ever been a good, free avenue for RP? And it doesn't count as free if someone else is paying for it.
Any MUD, MOO, or Muck.

Quote:
...and I can't say I miss old chat rooms since I like visual aids.
The outer door opens just as gravity cuts off... you release the hold-down and float though the umbilicus into the station. Through the tiny windows you catch glimpses of the great wheel and the other habitats in the cluster...

Not sure how you could build the visual aids for that in SL
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Old 03-10-2018, 08:50 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The outer door opens just as gravity cuts off... you release the hold-down and float though the umbilicus into the station. Through the tiny windows you catch glimpses of the great wheel and the other habitats in the cluster...

Not sure how you could build the visual aids for that in SL
I actually really wish you could control gravity in SL
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:45 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Any MUD, MOO, or Muck.

The outer door opens just as gravity cuts off... you release the hold-down and float though the umbilicus into the station. Through the tiny windows you catch glimpses of the great wheel and the other habitats in the cluster...

Not sure how you could build the visual aids for that in SL
The text descriptions in my RP usually go way beyond what I can show in the virtual world, but I still like seeing characters. I do appreciate what you are driving at though.
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:48 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I actually really wish you could control gravity in SL
And weather...
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Old 03-10-2018, 10:52 AM   #21 (permalink)
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And weather...
I forget the name of the sim but I ran across a shopping sim once with rain all over. I think they had free umbrellas to carry. It was pretty cool.
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Old 03-10-2018, 12:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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To sum up, SL is not toxic to RP. People are.

Yup. Sounds about right.
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Old 03-10-2018, 07:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Sims may shut down due to lack of funds, but friends lists are free. You can always get together in-character with people anywhere.

Sim owners who were known for being good organizers and not power-tripping dickehads will also maintain that reputation even when they can no longer pay the bills, and it's likely they can get their associates to join them elsewhere.

Overall, while SL might be extremely more expensive compared to running a MUD or persistent Neverwinter Nights server or maintaining a MMORPG subscription, the visual customization and cloud-based inventory keeps me coming back.

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Old 03-10-2018, 10:52 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Old 03-10-2018, 11:23 PM   #25 (permalink)
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