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Fmeh · 03-30-2008, 06:21 PM

TheRavenSeldon tried to bring this film up on another forum and was denied the ability to talk about this film. I have NOT watched it yet, I am going to after I post this.

Anti-Islam Film Released on the Internet Causes Controversy

Quote:

An anti-Islam film by Dutch right-wing legislator Geert Wilders, depicting Islam as a ticking time bomb that endangered the West, offended several Islamic and Arab leaders, who considered it insulting to religion.

Big protests, involving more than 15,000 people, took place in Afghanistan even before the 15-minute film was released.

The film, titled “Fitna” or ordeal in Arabic, was first posted late Thursday on Wilder’s Freedom Party website, but, as the site crashed due to heavy traffic, it soon appeared on the LiveLeak website, and then on YouTube and DailyMotion and several other shared-video sites.

LiveLeak took down the video, shortly after it had been posted, saying that its staff had received worrying threats, and Muslims thanked the site for promoting tolerance on the Internet.

The controversial film is marked as mature content, containing graphic images such as beheadings, violence against women in Islam and terrorist attacks. The scenes are separated by Koran verses, which promote violence against believers from other religions. Wilders believes that Muslim holy book causes Muslims to have this intolerant attitude against Christians and Jews, who are called “apes and pigs” in “Fitna” by a young Muslim girl.

Amsterdam police expected riots from Dutch Muslim, so they carefully watched the Muslim neighborhoods in Amsterdam, but no violence was initiated. Wilders even congratulated the Muslims in Netherlands for reacting calmly.

"They were all disgusted by the film, but so far there isn't a big explosion," said police spokesman Arnold Aben, according to the Los Angeles Times. "In fact, it's quieter than usual here today. Sort of like a holiday."

Wilders said on Friday he was happy his film had not caused violent reactions. He said he had only wanted to warn Europe about the danger represented by the Islamic terrorism. It was a film that advertised freedom, he insisted.

However, Iran, Pakistan and Indonesia officially rejected and condemned the film. Iran had urged the Netherlands and the European Union to remove the film from the Internet.

Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said in a statement that he disapproved of Wilders’ idea. He said he regretted that the vast majority of Muslim, who are against violence, were offended by the release of the film.

And here is the code that I use on my site to embed it as a flash under liveleak (it took me a lot of experimenting to figure out how to do it Morals, Religion & Culture : Anti-Islam Film Released on the Internet Causes Controversy but I don't know how to do that on this site:
[flash width=450 height=350]http://www.liveleak.com/player.swf?token=7d9_1206624103[/flash]

On the LiveLeak site itself, it shows a different video than this--this appears to be showing the real thing. On their site, it shows this:

LiveLeak.com - Fitna the Movie: Geert Wilders' film about the Quran (English) And unfortunately, when you use the regular player, it shows that they have removed the video--strange that, for now, it can still be seen through them when I embed it the way I did. Let's see how long that lasts.

Here is the YouTube version:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

This was a very disturbing film.

The jump from muslims in islamic countries having to follow Sharia law wanting Islam to take over the world violently to people who escape those countries who have a more peacful version of Islam wanting to do the same thing is a mighty jump indeed. Is it possible--I guess it's possible, but highly unlikely.

The thing we need to be vigilant about is keeping our freedoms, our ability to be able to state things against Islam if we choose. I have the freedom to speak against any other religion. If we start giving in, then the things in this film could actually become true.

I have no doubt of the intentions of the extremists in the Islamic countries that have Sharia law in place--a violent takeover is exactly what they want.

Flood Mommsen · 03-30-2008, 06:57 PM

Watched it, and while it may have a valid point here and there, it's actually not much more than dumb populism, which you could expect from the "other side" in just the same manner.

The problem, if there is one, with Islam is that in this situation it is proven that history repeats itself. Islam is about 500 years younger than Christendom, and look at the state of Christendom 500 years ago...

The only reason Christianity is the main religion in Germany, for example, is that when the Christs came, the slaughtered everyone who would not accept to be loved by Jesus. Well ok...maybe some of them turned voluntarily, but there was slaughtering, and not only a little. And like that Christianity spread through the world.

Islam is in a similar state now...give it some time, and they'll calm down. Unless someone loses his cool...then we're all pretty much fucked.

Fmeh · 03-31-2008, 02:03 AM

The problem with this is that it ISN'T 500 years ago. The weapons that are out there, the technology in general that is out there--technology pretty much changes everything. Everyone else has moved forward but them. It shouldn't matter how OLD a religion is, quite frankly. Facts and reality that are indisputable should be able to trump tradition, but in the case of extremist Islam, it doesn't.

If the Spanish inquisition was happening right now, I'd be speaking harshly against Christian nations allowing the inquisition to continue, and I'd be speaking harshly of course against those carrying out the inquisition.

Yes, history repeats itself if we let it. Why do we need to let this kind of crap repeat itself? The Spanish inquisition was NOT a good thing. The witch hunts were NOT a good thing.

When we have entire countries being threatened over cartoon drawings of Mohammad, there's a real problem happening.

We shouldn't be afraid of saying things about Islam--we certainly aren't afraid of speaking against Scientology when its believers do bad things, or Christianity when its believers do bad things, why be afraid of speaking against Islam when its believers do bad things? Have we really become that afraid, consciously or subconsciously?

Heck, many people, occasionally myself included, go on a rankfest on organized religion in general. Should we have to pussyfoot around Islam? If so, is it because we're afraid we'll offend someone? If that's the case--why aren't we afraid of offending Christians? Is it because we're scared something bad could happen to us? Has it really gotten that bad?

Brenda Archer · 03-31-2008, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fmeh

Heck, many people, occasionally myself included, go on a rankfest on organized religion in general. Should we have to pussyfoot around Islam? If so, is it because we're afraid we'll offend someone? If that's the case--why aren't we afraid of offending Christians? Is it because we're scared something bad could happen to us? Has it really gotten that bad?

It's getting that bad in some places. I've defended moderate Islam on this forum before, but not the crazy stuff that so many religions have had at one time or another.

Ranking on religion, in and of itself, is not prejudice. This distinction doesn't seem to be making it across the cultural divide. I doubt Westerners like myself can grasp what a serious business insult is in some cultures, but I still don't think speech should be suppressed. Asking modern Westerners to give up free discourse is like asking us to give up our soul.

Richie Waves · 03-31-2008, 04:00 AM

Propaganda..... I could easily go and corral up some very nasty quotes from the Bible... I could make a 15 minute video with chilling music exposing the horrors of the Christian religion.. I could highlight lunatics "carrying out the lords work" by shooting doctors, blowing up Clinics ect...

This whole thing is not about Religion... the War on Terror has nothing to do with Islam.. or Christianity... its a god dam power struggle, The US wants strategic power in a region of the world where the majority of folks happen to be Islamic... and a good chunk of the US population are Christian... its a very easy sell to the fundamentalists of both sides..

BTW, the maker of this video is nothing but a racist Animal, if he got his way the Netherlands would be a stinking rotting shit hole in 10 years.

Ron Paul meets George W Bush... the worst of both.

Quote:

In recent interviews, Geert Wilders more than once indicated that the Dutch constitution and European Convention on Human Rights should be amended or temporarily suspended to protect citizens from "Islamic extremism". He is in favor of stripping criminals with dual nationality of their Dutch citizenship and deporting them to their country of origin.[4] This has led to considerable criticism.

Flood Mommsen · 03-31-2008, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fmeh

(...)
Heck, many people, occasionally myself included, go on a rankfest on organized religion in general. Should we have to pussyfoot around Islam? If so, is it because we're afraid we'll offend someone? If that's the case--why aren't we afraid of offending Christians? Is it because we're scared something bad could happen to us? Has it really gotten that bad?

No, we shouldn't be afraid, and we should criticize Islam where it is necessary, the same way we criticize Christianity.

We as well should criticize China for what they're doing in Tibet, with occupying it, the same way we criticize Spain for still occupying the Basque country or England for still occupying Northern Ireland. (Yes, this is mainly to provoke, and to show again that history is repeating itself. The Tibetans have the luck that they have the world behind them - including myself - now, or at least most of it, the Basque people or the Irish didn't, back then, and now it's too late to change anything there).

I can't come up with solutions for the Islam-problems, and neither for those in Tibet. I wish I could. But you're right, history only repeats itself if we let it, so I guess the next few years will tell if we learned anything from history.

Richie Waves · 03-31-2008, 04:46 AM

There is a slight difference between critisising Islam, and blaming the entire planets ills on it...

There is a difference between constructive criticism and flame bate bullshit like the Mohammad pictures with a bomb in his Turpin.

Whats not really given much air about the Koran is that it never advocates violence simply on "non believers".. the language in the book is one of war, because guess what? war was raging while it was being penned.

"non believers" where actually the aggressors in the Koran, not simply innocent non believers who where ravaged by the evil Muslims.

Quote:

"And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits,"

Quote:

"And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors."

oh and Islam counts Jews and Christians "in the ranks of the righteous"... Alah is god and God is Allah.

Quote:

[2.130] And who forsakes the religion of Ibrahim but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.

Hiro Queso · 03-31-2008, 06:07 AM

Geert Wilders is lunatic.

WarKirby Magojiro · 03-31-2008, 06:56 AM

Did you not think to do a search before posting this?

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/pol...-released.html

Joshua Nightshade · 03-31-2008, 06:58 AM

I think it's obscure enough that one can be forgiven for double posting without sarcasm.

WarKirby Magojiro · 03-31-2008, 07:36 AM

Also, this youtube version is definitely cut. The one I watched on liveleak was 15 minutes long, this is only 10.

No matter, though. Limewire has it. Relying on any site to host it openly is not a good idea.

WarKirby Magojiro · 03-31-2008, 07:47 AM

here: RapidShare: 1-Click Webhosting

This is a rip of the original one on liveleak. Best to watch the full version before passing judgement, as a general rule.

Fmeh · 03-31-2008, 08:25 AM

Go to THIS thread--you'll find it in its entirity, STILL on LiveLeak if you are able to embed it in a tweaked manner--they didn't take it completely off their servers--if you tweak the code for showing the video and force it to embed on a forum, it still shows the full video.

go here: Morals, Religion & Culture : Anti-Islam Film Released on the Internet Causes Controversy

If there was a flash embed option here, I could put it on here too..

Fmeh · 03-31-2008, 11:15 PM

LiveLeak finally put the video back up.

Richie Waves · 03-31-2008, 11:24 PM

Why is a video made by a racist Bigot getting so much attention?

Fmeh · 04-01-2008, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie Waves

Why is a video made by a racist Bigot getting so much attention?

Because as so much of what he says is bigoted, there is a lot of truth to what he says as well.

To me, as long as the people that come here aren't demanding that we bow down to their beliefs, I'm fine and dandy with peaceful muslims living here, none at all. But if certain groups of them start demanding that we treat their religion with kid gloves which essentially is making us bow down to their religion, I think we really need to take it seriously.

When it comes to what countries in which Sharia law is in place, I think everything he is saying is correct. The problem is that he's trying to apply this to ALL muslims, which is just not right.

One of the reasons why this is being talked about SO much is somewhat like a test. If any of the countries we are not at war with start making demands on our country based on the fact that we're allowing this material/bigotry/whatever-you-want-to-call-it to be seen by the public and not censoring it, we need to really take seriously how it is that we are viewed by those countries and what kind of a threat those countries can be.

If this gets removed from the internet, the countries with Sharia law will have won, they would have changed our way of life.

Richie Waves · 04-01-2008, 02:35 AM

But, He's still just a bigot... he makes these videos because he has a hatred of Muslims..

I'm certainly not advocating it's removal off the Internet, but I'm perplexed as to why it isn't just in the internets dungeon with the rest of the underground racist shit...

Would a video against black people be treated like this? if it used statistics to prove that Blacks are criminals and not as smart as whites? (mysterious music soundtrack also) I doubt it.. it would get a very bad reaction just like it dam well should.

This wanker is tapping into a westwide mistrust of Muslims for his own personal gain, making matters worse in a time when we just plum don't need it...

If you don't like Muslims.. look.. theres a war for you.. a million dead!!! is that not enough? shall we keep pumping this dreg onto the nets to fill young peoples minds with the same retarded hatred that this broke brain assclown has?

pointless propaganda.. I'll say it again.

Joshua Nightshade · 04-01-2008, 02:37 AM

I'm dubious of anything coming from the Dutch regarding Islam these days personally.

Dnate Mars · 04-01-2008, 02:44 AM

I think the reactions to this are much more interesting then the film itself. I also think it is much more telling.

Fmeh · 04-01-2008, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dnate Mars

I think the reactions to this are much more interesting then the film itself. I also think it is much more telling.

Well said.

prinţesă nină · 04-01-2008, 08:08 AM

maybe someday we can openly criticise israel?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flood Mommsen

No, we shouldn't be afraid, and we should criticize Islam where it is necessary, the same way we criticize Christianity.

We as well should criticize China for what they're doing in Tibet, with occupying it, the same way we criticize Spain for still occupying the Basque country or England for still occupying Northern Ireland. (Yes, this is mainly to provoke, and to show again that history is repeating itself. The Tibetans have the luck that they have the world behind them - including myself - now, or at least most of it, the Basque people or the Irish didn't, back then, and now it's too late to change anything there).

I can't come up with solutions for the Islam-problems, and neither for those in Tibet. I wish I could. But you're right, history only repeats itself if we let it, so I guess the next few years will tell if we learned anything from history.

Fmeh · 04-01-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinţesă nină

maybe someday we can openly criticise israel?

Many people do. Israel has done some terrible things. However, there haven't been a bunch of Jewish leaders saying that they want to take over the world through violent force like MANY Islamic leaders and people that get listened to like to say on a normal basis. There's only one "official" Jewish country, and that country isn't going around trying to spread Judism through violence, it isn't threatening other countries with death, it isn't doing ANYTHING like what the Sharia Law countries are doing.

If a video came out ranking on Israel's actions, no big deal would be made at all, since there are dozens of videos like that already. Sure, there will always be people out there who will label people as "anti-Semite" if they -dare- to rank on Israel, but those people will use that label on people for a whole slough of things.

Richie Waves · 04-01-2008, 04:57 PM

Ney sayers of Israel are heavily censored in the US, not to mention the AIPAC coming down on them like a ton of bricks, ruining political careers and so forth... neysayers of Islam are given airtime and page space on the major News outlets.

you want to talk about your freedom of speech? its bullshit... this whole issue is just hypocrisy.

Fmeh · 04-02-2008, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie Waves

Ney sayers of Israel are heavily censored in the US, not to mention the AIPAC coming down on them like a ton of bricks, ruining political careers and so forth... neysayers of Islam are given airtime and page space on the major News outlets.

you want to talk about your freedom of speech? its bullshit... this whole issue is just hypocrisy.

As of more lately, people have been able to rank on Israel as long as they specify that they're talking about the government of Israel and not the people. And the thing is--one really can't say anything bad about the people of Israel without being invalid--they're generally very peaceful. One can NOT say the same about Sharia Law countries.

Joshua Nightshade · 04-02-2008, 04:15 AM

Fmeh you're so off the mark on Israel's government that I suggest you change the subject before Nina and I are on the same side.

03-31-2008, 07:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
WarKirby Magojiro Doing stuff Happles! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 2,778 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 1 SL Join Date: 14/10/2006 Business: MagoTek Industries	here: RapidShare: 1-Click Webhosting This is a rip of the original one on liveleak. Best to watch the full version before passing judgement, as a general rule. Last edited by WarKirby Magojiro; 03-31-2008 at 08:00 AM.

04-01-2008, 02:35 AM	#17 (permalink)
Richie Waves Joie de vivre! Is Three apples Tall Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Between Iraq and Israel Posts: 8,990 SL Join Date: 27/06/2005	But, He's still just a bigot... he makes these videos because he has a hatred of Muslims.. I'm certainly not advocating it's removal off the Internet, but I'm perplexed as to why it isn't just in the internets dungeon with the rest of the underground racist shit... Would a video against black people be treated like this? if it used statistics to prove that Blacks are criminals and not as smart as whites? (mysterious music soundtrack also) I doubt it.. it would get a very bad reaction just like it dam well should. This wanker is tapping into a westwide mistrust of Muslims for his own personal gain, making matters worse in a time when we just plum don't need it... If you don't like Muslims.. look.. theres a war for you.. a million dead!!! is that not enough? shall we keep pumping this dreg onto the nets to fill young peoples minds with the same retarded hatred that this broke brain assclown has? pointless propaganda.. I'll say it again. Last edited by Richie Waves; 04-02-2008 at 05:24 AM.

04-01-2008, 02:44 AM	#19 (permalink)
Dnate Mars Tastes like purple Illyngophiliac Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Home Posts: 10,885 My Mood: Wordtris Champion! SL Join Date: 01/27/2004 Business: Scripter for hire XBOX Leaderboard: 37^th	I think the reactions to this are much more interesting then the film itself. I also think it is much more telling. __________________ SLU Clubhouse - Open 24/7 Visit at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Tan/138/25/25

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03-30-2008, 06:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
Flood Mommsen Senior Member On my 6th Mojito Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hannover, Germany Posts: 142 My Mood: SL Join Date: 01/16/2006	Watched it, and while it may have a valid point here and there, it's actually not much more than dumb populism, which you could expect from the "other side" in just the same manner. The problem, if there is one, with Islam is that in this situation it is proven that history repeats itself. Islam is about 500 years younger than Christendom, and look at the state of Christendom 500 years ago... The only reason Christianity is the main religion in Germany, for example, is that when the Christs came, the slaughtered everyone who would not accept to be loved by Jesus. Well ok...maybe some of them turned voluntarily, but there was slaughtering, and not only a little. And like that Christianity spread through the world. Islam is in a similar state now...give it some time, and they'll calm down. Unless someone loses his cool...then we're all pretty much fucked.

03-31-2008, 02:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
Fmeh The Fourth Dimension Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Tacoma, WA USA Posts: 4,863 Blog Entries: 30	The problem with this is that it ISN'T 500 years ago. The weapons that are out there, the technology in general that is out there--technology pretty much changes everything. Everyone else has moved forward but them. It shouldn't matter how OLD a religion is, quite frankly. Facts and reality that are indisputable should be able to trump tradition, but in the case of extremist Islam, it doesn't. If the Spanish inquisition was happening right now, I'd be speaking harshly against Christian nations allowing the inquisition to continue, and I'd be speaking harshly of course against those carrying out the inquisition. Yes, history repeats itself if we let it. Why do we need to let this kind of crap repeat itself? The Spanish inquisition was NOT a good thing. The witch hunts were NOT a good thing. When we have entire countries being threatened over cartoon drawings of Mohammad, there's a real problem happening. We shouldn't be afraid of saying things about Islam--we certainly aren't afraid of speaking against Scientology when its believers do bad things, or Christianity when its believers do bad things, why be afraid of speaking against Islam when its believers do bad things? Have we really become that afraid, consciously or subconsciously? Heck, many people, occasionally myself included, go on a rankfest on organized religion in general. Should we have to pussyfoot around Islam? If so, is it because we're afraid we'll offend someone? If that's the case--why aren't we afraid of offending Christians? Is it because we're scared something bad could happen to us? Has it really gotten that bad?

03-31-2008, 06:07 AM	#8 (permalink)
Hiro Queso Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 753 My Mood:	Geert Wilders is lunatic.

03-31-2008, 06:58 AM	#10 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	I think it's obscure enough that one can be forgiven for double posting without sarcasm.

03-31-2008, 07:36 AM	#11 (permalink)
WarKirby Magojiro Doing stuff Happles! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 2,778 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 1 SL Join Date: 14/10/2006 Business: MagoTek Industries	Also, this youtube version is definitely cut. The one I watched on liveleak was 15 minutes long, this is only 10. No matter, though. Limewire has it. Relying on any site to host it openly is not a good idea.

03-31-2008, 08:25 AM	#13 (permalink)
Fmeh The Fourth Dimension Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Tacoma, WA USA Posts: 4,863 Blog Entries: 30	Go to THIS thread--you'll find it in its entirity, STILL on LiveLeak if you are able to embed it in a tweaked manner--they didn't take it completely off their servers--if you tweak the code for showing the video and force it to embed on a forum, it still shows the full video. go here: Morals, Religion & Culture : Anti-Islam Film Released on the Internet Causes Controversy If there was a flash embed option here, I could put it on here too..

03-31-2008, 11:15 PM	#14 (permalink)
Fmeh The Fourth Dimension Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Tacoma, WA USA Posts: 4,863 Blog Entries: 30	LiveLeak finally put the video back up.

03-31-2008, 11:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
Richie Waves Joie de vivre! Is Three apples Tall Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Between Iraq and Israel Posts: 8,990 SL Join Date: 27/06/2005	Why is a video made by a racist Bigot getting so much attention?

04-01-2008, 02:37 AM	#18 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	I'm dubious of anything coming from the Dutch regarding Islam these days personally.

04-01-2008, 04:57 PM	#23 (permalink)
Richie Waves Joie de vivre! Is Three apples Tall Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Between Iraq and Israel Posts: 8,990 SL Join Date: 27/06/2005	Ney sayers of Israel are heavily censored in the US, not to mention the AIPAC coming down on them like a ton of bricks, ruining political careers and so forth... neysayers of Islam are given airtime and page space on the major News outlets. you want to talk about your freedom of speech? its bullshit... this whole issue is just hypocrisy.

04-02-2008, 04:15 AM	#25 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	Fmeh you're so off the mark on Israel's government that I suggest you change the subject before Nina and I are on the same side.

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