Fade Languish

Have you seen any or are you just making assumptions on what they would say?

Got any links?

Midi Reifsnider

I don't like that any more than you do, but who gives any of us the right to march in and change it? We need to accept that people do things to each other we don't agree with. All we can do is make our own societies as fair as possible and hold them up as an example, we can't force other people to agree with us.


Again, they don't have to agree with us. It's not an easy task for either group to become more accepting of the other, and there needs to be willingness on both sides, but it could be done.

Fair enough - but the good points are somewhat lost amongst the crazy bits, which is unfortunate.

Fade Languish

How can you even take that film seriously? It's media at it's worst, just relying on the juxtaposition of shocking images and words. You could just as easily pull a bunch of extreme biblical references and flash some, I dunno, bombings of abortion clinics and Ku Klux Klan marches. Or maybe some extremist Jews speaking mixed with Palestinian children being shot.

Did you notice the God bless Hitler image seems to be an illustration?

Richie Waves

Fmeh.. it might be worth actually reading up on Sharia law... its not a singular thing, and varies wildly between country's.. granted, the gay thing is pretty much across the board, but believe me.. if the Fundies stateside had their way, you wouldn't be openly gay yourself. infact I'm willing to bet if they had their way things would be pretty similar...

Actually Fmeh... read up on Islam in general... Democracy for example was (and in the unbastardized version of Islam still should be) a basic tenet of Islam. also, oddly enough, Freedom of speech is an other tenet of the Koran. (I'll get the passages a bit later, I'm dashing off for now) a quick look yourself you'll find it pretty quickly.


Sadly, the crazys got hold of power.. as they have everywhere.. and used obscure lines from it to justify all these repressive rules...

another thing: Unjust killing is not rewarded by Allah and suicide bombings are unjust in the eyes of the vast majority of Muslims on the planet..

it Doesnt take long to find these truths.

__________________
My lastfm

Hello, I'm a recovering crackhead and this is my retarded sister. Can we have some welfare please? -Dennis

caroline ra

Wilders is a repugnant man in many ways. He makes it very difficult to take Voltaires advice and defend to the death a persons right to express themselves even though you disagree with them. People should be free to critisise, mock, humiliate and lampoon anyones beliefs, its the disproportionate reaction to this critisism that causes me concern. I read Indonesian Muslims have already stormed the Dutch Embassy in Jakarta. Lets hope the attitude of moderate muslims like Mohammed Rabbae prevails.

FaithWorld » Blog Archive » How Dutch Muslim leader reacted to Wilders anti-Koran film | Blogs | Reuters.com

Liona Clio

The name "Godwin" keeps coming to my mind while reading this thread...

Until someone does a head count and convinces me that a majority of Muslims actively practice murder in the name of Allah, I'm going to continue believing the religion is benign, and violent extremists of any stripe are nutjobs who need slapping about.

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"Well, my days of not taking you seriously have certainly come to a middle."

Especially at night, I worry over situations I know will be alright. Perhaps it's just imagination. Day after day it reappears. Night after night, my heartbeat shows the fear. Ghosts appear and fade away... -Colin Hay

prinţesă nină

interestingly enough, iraq was secular.
and now that it has been invaded look whats happened...

Fmeh

I've never said that we should go in and change it. I've said that we should completely leave them alone.They kill people for not believing in their religion. How are they going to suddenly change?Unfortunately.

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Fmeh

Like I've said, nothing can be done, they have to change on their own and we need to completely leave those countries alone, and stop trade and travel to those countries as much as possible. We just need to leave them alone and if they start ASKING for help, if the LEADERS of those countries start asking for help, THEN it might be an appropriate time to help, but until then, we just need to leave them alone.

Joshua Nightshade

And then read up about the West Bank apartheid that Israel is conducting against Palestinians. And how the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are treated like shit.

And make sure it's a book published outside of the US, because you won't get an accurate or unbiased representation here.

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prinţesă nină

basically embargo them then?
instead maybe people should just stop interfering with them.
starting with israel.

Fade Languish

Embargoes cause suffering and death.

Fmeh

I can agree with that. I think we give Israel WAY too much money and support.

Fmeh

Wow--I just got wind of this:

Fade Languish

So Fmeh did you dig up those polls?

Fmeh

Here's a couple from a quick search:

CNN.com - Poll of Saudis shows wide support for bin Laden's views - Jun 8, 2004
The Whig Standard - Ontario, CA

Richie Waves

The Saudi king is an awfully repressive regime, and its propped up by the US, Saudis know this, so it is no surprise they back Osama.

the other poll says what? we should kill these women because they don't want to become materially obsessed like western women?

Freerepublic.com

you'd fit in great over there Fmeh... they all want to make the ME east Muslims extinct too. >.<

Richie Waves

Fmeh

As a gay man, no, I wouldn't.

Fmeh

So, I guess we can't talk about Sharia Law countries without it automatically becoming something against all Muslims. I see. Well, since I'm going to simply be labeled a bigot because I don't like Sharia Law, I should just stop trying to explain myself.

Richie Waves

They are all Americans no? land of the enlightened? surely they are accepting of all people....

Fade Languish

From one of your links: "there is no Monolithic Muslim world".

Fade Languish

To understand how these fanatical ideas gain traction, and anti US sentiment in general, you have to look beyond just religion.

You have to look at the role the US has played in the world too, and see the US as much of the world has seen it. You (as in, your government) create and fund your future enemies, from the triads and their heroin, which you are now revisiting in Afghanistan, to Saddam and Osama.

You finance despots that terrorise their own countries, like the grubby little deals in all those little 'stans' countries, and countries with Sharia law, whilst you attack and bully democratically elected governments. You fund the Israelis, who have displaced and continue to oppress and slaughter a nation.

They know your cluster bombs that litter countries and mutilate children, your depleted uranium shells that make them sick. They know poverty and suffering as a result of your embargoes, and the civil war you bring.

They know you're the only nation to have used nuclear weapons, and on civilian populations.

They know the US government is the greatest terrorist in the world.

It only took one September 11 to radicalise the US. Imagine how people feel when they watch their people die night after night on Al-Jazeera.

Richie Waves

Hello Mr Hammer, Meet Mr Nail.

Great post Fade.

Fmeh

That was very well said. I agree completely. There's nothing I can add to that.