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Old 06-06-2013, 11:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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SFWA: Sexist pigs?

Dear SFWA

I'm on my phone so: sorry for only including a link. And for not being able to look closely here to see if thread already.

Eta:
http://www.shilohwalker.com/website/.../im-no-barbie/

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Old 06-06-2013, 11:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Presidential Statement on the SFWA Bulletin | SFWA

There are comments as well worth a read after the statement. (And some bound to push things into the toilet.)
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Sure, read that one as well. It's basically Scalzi apologizing, saying that, despite being on a book tour, he is responsible as SFWA pres. Also noting that, despite knowing there was an issue, he didn't take the time to do more than skim the next 'response' bulletin before publication. Despite being responsible.

Heh. And that article in the SWFA in response saying women should be like Barbie certainly helped matters, eh? Heh.

Link of links:

Jim C. Hines » Roundup of Some “Anonymous Protesters” (#SFWA Bulletin Links)

Links of links
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The comments from some SFWA members pretty much support her decision to leave. Why would any self-respecting woman stay in group with toads like this?

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VD says:
June 1, 2013 at 2:54 am

Dear Ms Tobler,

Congratulations on quitting the SFWA. I’m sure it was a real shock to learn that the old lions of the field are not inclined to immediately adjust their thinking to your liking upon demand and I’m sorry you had to experience such palpable horror.

Now, if you will please take the rest of the feminist fascists who believe romance novels in space, necrobestiality, and rehashed Regency romances are science fiction with you, and permit the real SF writers to get on with the business of writing actual science fiction, you will do a great service to both SFWA and the field of science fiction.

Best regards,
Vox
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Free Xue View Post
Presidential Statement on the SFWA Bulletin | SFWA

There are comments as well worth a read after the statement. (And some bound to push things into the toilet.)
Eeks. Oops, no I didn't read it at that link. I read it on Scalzi's blog where he has comments off.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:33 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lexxi Gynoid View Post
Eeks. Oops, no I didn't read it at that link. I read it on Scalzi's blog where he has comments off.
Yeah, it's why I didn't link to it on his blog. Thankfully he did have it placed it somewhere "open".
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:35 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I like Scalzi, and think he's probably done some good for the SFWA as president, but that reply from him leaves me disappointed. He could probably have written the same thing for most any controversy, with a few tweaks.

If you're apologizing for something, try to, oh I don't know, at least acknowledge and recognize what you're apologizing for.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:46 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Free Xue View Post
I like Scalzi, and think he's probably done some good for the SFWA as president, but that reply from him leaves me disappointed. He could probably have written the same thing for most any controversy, with a few tweaks.

If you're apologizing for something, try to, oh I don't know, at least acknowledge and recognize what you're apologizing for.
I agree. One of the comments said the same thing.

Which is why so many comments focused only on the barely clad woman on one of the issues. So, what was Scalzi apologizing about? The cover? Well, he did indirectly mention that there might have been some issue with the articles. Hmm.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:56 AM   #9 (permalink)
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By the way, thanks Lexxi for bringing this up here.

There's a similar long-term dust up going on in the atheist community, recently reignited by comments made by the president of Center for Inquiry at a conference for women in secularism his organization sponsored. I'm not sure I want to get into all that here as there is a lot one would have to go through to get up to speed (using Scalzi's phrasing), but what's going on now with the SFWA is sort of the same, writ small.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:58 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It isn't the cover that is so offensive, it's the articles written by those two jackanapes. Unfortunately some are too blinded by their own sexist attitudes to see that.

/me tells self "Walk away... just walk away before you go postal."
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfEyes View Post
It isn't the cover that is so offensive, it's the articles written by those two jackanapes. Unfortunately some are too blinded by their own sexist attitudes to see that.
Some are blinded, some know exactly what they're doing by focusing on it.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
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ADWEEK: Will the Fantasy Genre Ever Grow Up and Ditch the Chainmail Bikini?

Good coverage of the scandal, with a lot of links.



Editor of SFWA Bulletin Resigns



The HuffPo Book Blog has a tl;dr opinion/analysis as well
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soen Eber View Post
ADWEEK: Will the Fantasy Genre Ever Grow Up and Ditch the Chainmail Bikini?

Good coverage of the scandal, with a lot of links.
Some good links, but coverage is sadly weak. The chain-mail cover was only an initial spark of what the real problems are in this story.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Xue View Post
Some are blinded, some know exactly what they're doing by focusing on it.

That's what I meant by "blinded by their own sexist attitudes". They know what buttons to push and they do it deliberately with malice aforethought. Others know what they are doing but aren't necessarily doing it with malice aforethought. They are so blinded by their sexist attitudes they can't see what is so wrong with it.

Or, I need more coffee.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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It's still one of the last refuges of the angry nerd who never got laid and they reinforce each other.

Fuck 'em. Women are and will continue to be successful without their lame asses.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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btw, some women still, and this is the ONLY genre I have ever heard this still going on, write under male pseudonyms in science fiction to "be taken seriously". Which pretty much says it all.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Or, I need more coffee.
Hear hear! *sips*
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Io Zeno View Post
btw, some women still, and this is the ONLY genre I have ever heard this still going on, write under male pseudonyms in science fiction to "be taken seriously". Which pretty much says it all.
This is a valid point, but it's also slightly mitigated by the case of the soon-to-be-late Iain Banks, who writes SF under the name of Iain M banks in order to have his non-SF fiction taken seriously.

In other words, the world of fiction (and, incidentally, science fiction) is so populated by fuckwits with power therein as to be worth ignoring.

Except for the remarkable work produced by the actual authors.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Io Zeno View Post
btw, some women still, and this is the ONLY genre I have ever heard this still going on, write under male pseudonyms in science fiction to "be taken seriously". Which pretty much says it all.
Yes, but not completely. Or rather, there are a few genres left where women tend to use male or androgynous pseudonyms, Westerns being one. But, yes.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You're right, Westerns too.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
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''feminist fascists''

How can one take anyone who uses this term seriously?
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:28 PM   #22 (permalink)
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'VD' and signed 'Vox'? That'll be Vox Day, I expect. All around idiot crackpot, ran for SWFA president, well-known anti-gay, anti-atheist, and ESPECIALLY anti-feminist bigot. Known for, for example, claiming marital rape doesn't exist. Don't pay any attention to him unless it's to laugh; no one else does.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Kind of creepy the way Theodore "Vox Day" Beale and Jim Norton resemble each other.

Open these in seperate tabs then flip back and forth.

File:Vox Day by Tracy White promo pic.jpg - RationalWiki

http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/im...-cAR9vQ-lg.jpg
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:48 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Well, at least some good did come of this, since there were plenty of links to the websites of sci-fi authors. The contrast between the "chainmail bikini" cover art and the cover art of one of the covers on Kameron Hurley's webpage caught my eye:





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But I cannot take your arguments seriously when you back them up with links to ridiculously bad information. It's not bad because I disagree with it, it's bad because it really is bad. These sites demonstrate zero knowledge of the science they are discussing, they link almost exclusively to other non-information, and when they DO link to an authoritative source, they misrepresent what the source actually says.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:08 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KT Kingsley View Post
This is a valid point, but it's also slightly mitigated by the case of the soon-to-be-late Iain Banks, who writes SF under the name of Iain M banks in order to have his non-SF fiction taken seriously.

In other words, the world of fiction (and, incidentally, science fiction) is so populated by fuckwits with power therein as to be worth ignoring.

Except for the remarkable work produced by the actual authors.
But authors will do that for several other reasons as well, most often so as not to confuse loyal readers of a particular genre. I also don't think science fiction really has that stigma anymore. I mean there are those who will always look down their noses at anything not categorized as "literary fiction" but they don't discriminate by genre, heh. It has more respect than horror or romance.

I'm one of those who fell in love with Banks for his non-sci-fi work. My first book by him was The Wasp Factory, one of my favorites and his first.

Very sad to hear about his prognosis.
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