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Old 04-07-2013, 10:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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America Under The Gun

Mother Jones has an incredibly comprehensive feature on guns in America:

A Special Report on the Rise of Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:14 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Would be nice to have a special report on guns by an entity that wasn't biased for or against guns.

MJ is extremely anti-gun, and they take on the NRA which is extremely pro-gun.

I don't care for the MJ take on it since they use statistics in misleading ways just the same as the NRA does. Such as saying someone with a gun is 4.5 times more likely to be shot, yet mysteriously fail to say what the base risk is (hint, its a tiny fraction of a fraction, which if you multiply a tiny fraction of a fraction by 4.5 it is still a tiny fraction of a fraction; meaning a person with a gun has essentially the same chance of getting shot as a person without a gun.) Its like saying someone is 4.5 times more likely to win the lotto. Effectively it means nothing.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tranquility View Post
Would be nice to have a special report on guns by an entity that wasn't biased for or against guns.

MJ is extremely anti-gun, and they take on the NRA which is extremely pro-gun.

I don't care for the MJ take on it since they use statistics in misleading ways just the same as the NRA does. Such as saying someone with a gun is 4.5 times more likely to be shot, yet mysteriously fail to say what the base risk is (hint, its a tiny fraction of a fraction, which if you multiply a tiny fraction of a fraction by 4.5 it is still a tiny fraction of a fraction; meaning a person with a gun has essentially the same chance of getting shot as a person without a gun.) Its like saying someone is 4.5 times more likely to win the lotto. Effectively it means nothing.
I always enjoy the fact that leave out one number.
99.9% of the legal gun owners never commit a crime.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
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In Ohio, it's true you can carry a concealed weapon in a bar, bank, or almost anywhere...

...UNLESS that location has a sign barring concealed weapons carry.

Care to guess how many bars actually ALLOW concealed carry?

And guess how much alcohol you're allowed to consume in a bar if you DO happen to find one that allows CC?

Note date of article.

Carrying guns in Ohio bars now legal with permit | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

Even before this law, Ohio was an "open carry" state.

http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=286
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Roxie Marten View Post
I always enjoy the fact that leave out one number.
99.9% of the legal gun owners never commit a crime.
Not to mention that 100% of illegal gun owners are likely to commit a crime involving a firearm.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cristiano View Post
Mother Jones has an incredibly biased, incomplete, and misleading feature against guns in America:

A Special Report on the Rise of Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones

FIFY
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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In Ohio, it's true you can carry a concealed weapon in a bar, bank, or almost anywhere...

...UNLESS that location has a sign barring concealed weapons carry.

Care to guess how many bars actually ALLOW concealed carry?

And guess how much alcohol you're allowed to consume in a bar if you DO happen to find one that allows CC?

Note date of article.

Carrying guns in Ohio bars now legal with permit | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

Even before this law, Ohio was an "open carry" state.

Ohio | OpenCarry.org

I know I feel safer every time I go to the Sprint store and that little sign on door that says "No Firearms Allowed"
For I know that an armed felon is going to see that sign, throw down his gun in disgust and storm off.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I know I feel safer every time I go to the Sprint store and that little sign on door that says "No Firearms Allowed"
For I know that an armed felon is going to see that sign, throw down his gun in disgust and storm off.
Exactly. It's not the normal, law-abiding citizen you have to worry about... but that's the only person that gun restrictions keep guns away from.

For the bad guys, it just makes them a little more expensive.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The Washington Post has a rather large report titled Guns in America, a collection of various pieces that they've published on the topic. It's available as an e-book through Amazon, iTunes, etc:

https://ssl.washingtonpost.com/actmg...n-post-e-books

They also published the results of a yearlong investigation into gun crime titled The Hidden Life of Guns in which they traced the firearms used in crimes to a small number of sellers:

The Hidden Life of Guns - Washington Post Investigations
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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So this is tangentially related. Last night I'm with my brother and our accountant. The bro and the accountant are both gun nuts. So they have these guns and they are comparing them and start talking about ammo shortages. Apparently the US govt is buying up ammo. I get home and find out its true.

THIS SCARES THE SHIT OUT OF ME
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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So this is tangentially related. Last night I'm with my brother and our accountant. The bro and the accountant are both gun nuts. So they have these guns and they are comparing them and start talking about ammo shortages. Apparently the US govt is buying up ammo. I get home and find out its true.

THIS SCARES THE SHIT OUT OF ME
Yeah that appears to be another MJ-esq article based on loose facts made to look uber scary. Plus it was a recent SLU thread.

DHS to purchase 1.6bn rounds of ammo
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:42 PM   #12 (permalink)
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There have been shortages in calibers used by the military, and from producers that make ammo for the military, for some time now. This is nothing new. It's just supply and demand.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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There have been shortages in calibers used by the military, and from producers that make ammo for the military, for some time now. This is nothing new. It's just supply and demand.
It isn't just the military stuff. This NRA panic stampede is a staggeringly brilliant bit of marketing.

If I was still making SL stuff, I'd do an Obama Is Coming For Your Prims campaign stat.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: America Under The Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxie Marten View Post
I know I feel safer every time I go to the Sprint store and that little sign on door that says "No Firearms Allowed"
For I know that an armed felon is going to see that sign, throw down his gun in disgust and storm off.
Thats good, because I would feel mich safer knowing any random citizen could be carrying a firearm in their jacket or purse and could start randomly start shooting "bad guys" like this hypothetical Sprint robber. Lets hope they don't miss or anything, I really would hate to get killed in the crossfire over a few hundred dollars and some cell phones.

Also I wonder if Sprint would graciously cover the therapy bills of said good samaratin after they have murder some theif and possibly some bystanders. Even if they did managed to win the murder charges with some "self defense" argument that has got to be pretty traumatizing to anyone sane enough to be trusted with carrying a firearm.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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It isn't just the military stuff. This NRA panic stampede is a staggeringly brilliant bit of marketing.

If I was still making SL stuff, I'd do an Obama Is Coming For Your Prims campaign stat.
"It's not just the military stuff" because suppliers - ones good enough to get military contracts - have finite production capability.

This means that in addition to the demand being high for military calibers, it's ALSO reducing production of every other kind of ammo as people and production equipment are directed to fulfill the government contracts.

The smaller suppliers don't have enough extra production capability to meet the continued demand for civilian ammo, and they aren't supplying the really dedicated shooters with high-quality ammo anyway, so even in non-military calibers and combinations, the total production capability just isn't up to current total demand.

Need some more tin foil?


Hmmm... and I thought it was conservatives that were supposed to be the great believers in conspiracy theories...
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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...

Need some more tin foil?


Hmmm... and I thought it was conservatives that were supposed to be the great believers in conspiracy theories...
Nope, can't imagine what I'd use it for. But if you have 10 lbs of #8 shot, 100 primers and a pound of Hodgdon Clays powder, I could whip up some 3/4 oz loads and do some serious threatening of the clay pigeon population this Sunday.

Oh, by the way ....

Quote:
December set a record for the criminal background checks performed before many gun purchases, a strong indication of a big increase in sales, according to an analysis of federal data by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry trade group. Adjusting the federal data to try to weed out background checks that were unrelated to firearms sales, the group reported that 2.2 million background checks were performed last month, an increase of 58.6 percent over the same period in 2011. Some gun dealers said in interviews that they had never seen such demand.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/12/us...urge.html?_r=0

Damn that librull NSSF!
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
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One problem that I have with the Mother Jones piece is that it focuses on these mass shootings. Deaths from mass shootings are a tiny percentage of total gun deaths. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't work to prevent them, but we need to recognize that they are a different problem from firearm suicides, and both are different from firearm deaths due to violent crime. Within the category of violent crime, you can even break it down further, for example looking at firearm deaths related to organized crime as opposed to firearms deaths as part of random crimes.

Right away, there are some obvious differences. Mass shootings and suicides tend to involve guns that were purchased legally. They also relate directly to the fact that our mental health system makes the rest of the American healthcare system look well-funded and fully-staffed by comparison. We need to have a better means of reporting and background checking to try to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill, or at the very least adopting something in the same line as Kendra's Law to require gun owners who have mental health problems to continue treatment and to have to be regularly tested to ensure treatment compliance.

Violent crimes involving firearms, by contrast, are more likely to involve guns that were purchased illegally. This is one reason why DC's handgun ban was never very effective (along with the fact that people could purchase guns in Virginia and drive them across the river). The Washington Post was able to track a large number of illegal firearms and found that almost all of them were originally purchased from a small number of stores. This would imply that dealing with violent crime means going after the stores that act as the interface between the legal and illegal markets.

Removing loopholes to background check requirements for various types of private sales would help solve other problems, provided that mental health issues are correctly entered into the background check database (in the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings, Virginia enacted wide changes to the reporting requirements to ensure that someone like Cho, who should have been in the database but wasn't, will show red flags if they try to purchased firearms). But it's important to have multiple solutions each aimed at dealing with specific types of gun violence. Ultimately, if there are limits, either fiscal or political, to the number of changes that can be enacted, it probably makes sense to focus on reducing gun deaths to suicide and violent crime first, in the interest of saving the most lives.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:32 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Nope, can't imagine what I'd use it for. But if you have 10 lbs of #8 shot, 100 primers and a pound of Hodgdon Clays powder, I could whip up some 3/4 oz loads and do some serious threatening of the clay pigeon population this Sunday.

Oh, by the way ....



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/12/us...urge.html?_r=0

Damn that librull NSSF!

20 ga? I don't reload shotshells...probably should start, since I tend to shoot more of that than anything but .22 longs.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:59 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Gun nuts ... they are everywhere. I am active on a forum for mac computers ... and recently discovered their version of PRS. I am still trying to reconcile the concepts of a geek who is probably eating granola with passionate NRA members.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Now we're talking about guns again, I'm going to ask once more. Do any of our gun enthusiasts have an issue with background checks and licensed resellers or is that an infringement of your rights?
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:41 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Now we're talking about guns again, I'm going to ask once more. Do any of our gun enthusiasts have an issue with background checks and licensed resellers or is that an infringement of your rights?
I'd be interested in what forum regulars have to say about this, too. (Maybe make a poll, Baltha...?)

Many of the objections that have been voiced by the right, have been addressed by those who want change; I'm thinking of things like the ridicule heaped on the idea of background checks by those who say 'what, so a father selling a gun to his son has to do a BACKGROUND CHECK on his son? that's absurd!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!' The solution, of course, is to exempt sales to some family members (immediate family and a couple of degrees from that).

But some people don't want simple solutions, of course.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The right to bear arms would NOT be infringed by requirements for licensed dealers, discontinuation of unregulated gun shows, intelligent background checks, and perhaps a Continuing Education requirement for gun owners.

Of course, that would not stop accidents like this in the gun-idol society:

4-year old fatally shoots wife of Tenn. sheriff

But maybe it would help. I honestly do not understand the vehemence of gun owners against background checks and requiring licensed dealers.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltha View Post
Now we're talking about guns again, I'm going to ask once more. Do any of our gun enthusiasts have an issue with background checks and licensed resellers or is that an infringement of your rights?
I wouldn't call myself an enthusiast as I only have 3 weapons but I have no problems whatsoever with background checks or requiring resellers to be licensed.

Truthfully, it should already be that way.....
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Now we're talking about guns again, I'm going to ask once more. Do any of our gun enthusiasts have an issue with background checks and licensed resellers or is that an infringement of your rights?
How about a gun owner's license like a driver's license?
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