Cristiano

Ah, lectured again by Richie "I am an expert on Venezuela because I read about it on the Internet" Waves.

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Kamilah Hauptmann

Military high command has apparently announced that the constitution will he enforced by them and has voiced support for both Maduro and Cabello. Seems hopeful.

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Richie Waves

Where did I lecture you? I asked a question. BTW, if you want to discount nearly everything said on this forum if you think "reading it on the internet" is such a terrible thing.

It just amuses me how you all bitch about the rich asshole republicans here all the time but think the poor in Venezuela aren't entitled to a fair shake.

I'm not surprised, though, hypocrisy here is rampant. Quite a few of you can admit the horrible injustices America carried out in the past and all the while cheering on current ones. Honestly, nothing fucking surprises me anymore.

Cristiano

Richie, refer to your "so called liberals here" comment above.

Isabeau Imako

Who here has said they are cheering on current American injustices? Who here thinks the poor don't deserve a fair shake.

Who are you talking to?

It's almost as if you're looking for someone to argue with.

Richie Waves

Yes, well, I have become deeply disillusioned with with term "liberalism" since Obama was elected and I realised I'm not a liberal. It's not an ideology of fairness and equality for everyone. Not even close. Most liberals here couldn't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. Essentially, it's a right wing ideology that will do all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify the crimes of their country.

It seems my alliance with liberals was build on a false premise due to how ridiculously war mongerish GWB was. Now he's gone, the same shit gets justified by the same people who were calling for heads during his terms.

It's all lies. This forum is a right leaning forum. America is a right wing country.

Richie Waves

With the exception of about 5 or 6 people, everyone.

Memir Quinn

You have the whole of it in one.


Look at the lion's share of his responses, carefully. You see that? Its sometimes as if he is having a conversation with himself regardless of who, or more over, the "what" of whichever post he is "responding" to actually is. Its like sometimes he is just waiting for any response so he can in turn carry on with some pre-scripted diatribe (usually involving chucking accusations of some sort or another about being party to X because you may not agree with him or agree with him enough).



Hand in hand with that is that old Prok chestnut of "What? I'm just asking questions!?", "I'm not saying you're doing anything. Just asking if you'd still be happy if someone comes along and starts throwing babies out of airplane windows! That is a question dammit! Not a accusation! You protofascist, hypocritical wikitiki technocomunist!" Whoops that last part was Prok.



He is completely transparent.

Richie Waves

Right, no one here is cheerleader of American Imperialism. I'm making it all up.

Shiloh Lyric

Wow. Well, since I'm not a "so-called" liberal, but an actual liberal, I'm not chanting anyone's death. But nice broad brush you're painting with there.

And...aren't you Irish? I'm not overly familiar with Irish politics...but don't you all have your own problems to deal with? Why aren't you out on the streets doing something...like protesting something over there or something. Or is it all perfect?

I'm asking because I really don't know. But from what I've read of your posts, just today alone, I'm thinking you all got it pretty perfect, since it's other countries you bitch about the most.

Got room for 3 more? The kids and I are on our way.

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http://shilohlyric.wordpress.com/

Richie Waves

While shit isn't perfect here and far from it, my country isn't out agitating for WW3. Shit's perfect there though, isnt it? So no need for you to be out protesting then, but we know how bad shit gets for protesters in America, don't we.

Evola

It's not really a left wing vs. right wing issue imo, the whole right/left liberal/conservative playpen exists as a tool to manufacture both opposition and consent for the actions of the powers that be(moderates are in the same pen, they're just sitting in the middle and not in the wings). Whether this particular political system we have started out that way, I don't know, but in our lifetimes it's just a tool and tptb shift more of their weight towards whichever side grants them the most benefit at any given time.

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Richie Waves

On social and domestic issues, certainly, but on military issues, nearly everyone is right wing, Washington consensus orthodoxy.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised since enjoying the fruits of other nations resources is sort of intoxicating.

Memir Quinn

See you on those protester front lines, you paragon of morally righteous political activism (at least on the interwebs).

Shiloh Lyric

Nope, shit's NOT perfect here. Which is why I'm moving to Ireland. I was serious...ya' got room for 3 more? Because, while you say that "while shit isn't perfect here", you never really say much about it. Or at least you haven't in a very, very long time, so I'm thinking if it's not perfect, it MUST be damn close to it. Not a very big country, right? But I'm hoping you can fit 3 more, because the way you criticize the US, it MUST be way, way better.

I'm looking into getting a passport.

Evola

I think the differences are just less glaring there, and I'll just point out that the neo-cons aren't considered to be conservative or right wing to a fairly huge number of people either. (eta: for example, Buchanan and his brigade, who don't exactly fall under your categorization of cheerleading, militaristic right-wing either)

(eta2: to rephrase it, what's considered to be left or right, liberal or conservative, is mostly just made up as they go along, again it's whatever serves tptb's best interests and a tool's(or pawn's) usefullness that defines all)

Jahar Aabye

In ten years? Where did they come from? I don't doubt that he may have sextupled the total number of teachers, but I have to ask how many of them are actually qualified to teach.

Quote:

There is an ongoing agrarian reform.' Venezuela has undertaken significant steps to build food security through land reform and government assistance.

Land reform? Are we talking about collectivisation? Because this sounds suspiciously like "we took farms away from the owners at gunpoint and turned them into government-owned operations, skimming the profits to give to our friends". I say that because when other world leaders have said things like this, it's what they meant. Maybe it was a poor choice of words and this is not what happened in Venezuela, I don't know, I'm simply pointing out what is usually meant when people say things like this.

See, here's the thing, unless Venezuela's economy grew dramatically during this period, the only way to get the results that you're bragging about involves forcibly taking wealth and redistributing it. To be clear, there is an enormous difference between redistributing income (ie taxes), and redistributing wealth, which means forcibly taking property and valuables. That's also the difference between socialism and communism. What Chavez was doing is communism, not socialism.

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Jahar Aabye

Ummmm, I'm trying to figure out if this is supposed to be a postmodern view of political science, or if you're just not sure how to express your ideas. Pat Buchanan is, if not a full-fledged fascist, fairly close to that end of the spectrum. Further, what's considered to be left or right, liberal or conservative, actually can be defined to some extent. It can be objective in the sense that a lot of people probably seem liberal to Buchanan and a lot of people probably seem conservative compared to Marx. On the other hand, there are very serious real-world difference between different political philosophies.

Cristiano

For some perspective on Venezuela to counter some of the posts in this thread:

5 Ways Chavez Has Destroyed the Venezuelan Economy - ABC News

Some lowlights:

One of the biggest problems with Chavez's reign is that the good works being lauded in this thread were done for political capital and power with no regard to making them sustainable. It was more about short term gains aimed at looting Venezuela than building a solid, sustainable economy that could support all those wonderful things. It's a house of cards. Chavez was no revolutionary hero for the poor or visionary leader.

Shiloh Lyric

Now, Cristiano, it's the media feeding you, as an American living in Florida, these horrible lies. Listen to Richie! He'll tell you exactly what you think. I have been highly enlightned on my own views today between this and the thread about Israel. I always wondered exactly what my opinions were. Now I know. You are not immune, despite your latino heritage.

Eris

You might want to check those claims. Literacy in Venezuela was very high before Chavez. He could only have increased it a few percent.

List of universities in Venezuela - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are only 23 public universities in Venezuela.

Cristiano

Yes, my family and friends that still live there don't know anything about Venezuela compared to Richie. If only we could all be so enlightened.

Cristiano

Nature abhors a vacuum. While Maduro is considered the heir apparent, he lacks Chavez's cult-leader like charisma. He is more Raul Castro to Chavez's Fidel. It remains to be seen what will happen. I'm not cheering Chavez' death - to do so would be wrong. I am celebrating the end of his power, however. I didn't want him to die, just to go the fuck away.

Casey Pelous

Obama? Liberal?

Oh, Richie, that's so cute!

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Jahar Aabye

And the thing is, massive inflation like that hurts the working poor the worst. The people who are already living paycheck-to-paycheck get screwed over by the increased price in staple goods, and their paychecks are the most likely to fall in real value due to inflation. The only people who benefit in such an inflationary economy are people who have foreign investments...which would be Chavez and his cronies, who have a monopoly on the Venezuelan export market (and thus control over foreign currency coming into the country).

That's why it really pisses me off when Chavez and whatshername in Argentina are held up as champions of the proletariat. Bull-fucking-shit. These leaders aren't criticized because they did things that hurt rich people, they're criticized because they did things that seriously damaged their nations' economies and in the process hurt a lot of people of all socioeconomic classes.