Melodie Darwin

Craft Store Chain Sues For Right To Deny Their Employees Contraception Coverage | ThinkProgress

This is why we need health insurance to be separate from the workplace. Not every employee is going to share the same beliefs and employers shouldn't have that type of control.

I'm not incredibly surprised that it would be the Hobby Lobby owners. Fortunately there are more locally owned and closer craft stores around my area.

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AshaSekayi Ra

Thanks for posting that. The list of fundie companies to avoid is getting longer and longer.

Void

there's an interesting parallel here in anti-smoking laws...

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Wrong Weatherwax

Allowing for-profit organizations the means by which to pass basic worker protections due to religious beliefs of the owners isn't a "religious" issue, its a cost and discrimination issue.

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Eris

If they believe that strongly in their religion, why do they even offer health insurance at all? "Lay your hands on the sick and they will recover."

Wrong Weatherwax

Hey now Eris, don't give them any ideas!

I worked for an organization like this, a small sect of extremely fundamentalist Christians who literally believed that most organized religion was far too permissive (yes, they even have a compound of sorts) and I saw how often they reached for that Bible card when issues of cost and responsibility to their worker's came into play. While I have my own rather negative opinions about that kind of insular and frankly, xenophobic religious structure, in my experience its often just an excuse used to cut costs or to "keep out" certain undesirable people.

Of course, I admit to a certain schadenfreude when they got sued into oblivion for insurance fraud.

Jahar Aabye

Yeah, so, I'm going to be visiting my parents soon, and this time I'll remember to pick up my Hebrew/English copy of the Torah that I left there, because I really don't remember anything in Leviticus stating "Thou shalt not treat cysts of the ovaries, yea thou shalt allow women thus afflicted to go barren".

Then again, I may be giving these morons far to much credit by assuming that they are even aware that these drugs are used to treat PCOS or endometriosis, or even what those conditions are. The fucking imbecility that causes people to say "I don't believe in contraception, so I'll let women become infertile as a result" is just mind-boggling in terms of cognitive dissonance.

I really think these people just need to be referred to as being "pro-death" since that's the ultimate outcome of denying medical care based n religious beliefs.

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Jahar Aabye

Yeah, this is why I'd expect that if a religious exceprion is granted to employers, we'll see a lot of employers suddenly converting to Scientology, given the costs and long-term nature of psychiatric treatment.

Eris

Of course this policy would need to apply to them, as well.

If an employer demands religious exemptions when providing health insurance, then when they call 911, the ambulance should take them to church.

Gabriell Anatra

Or Christian Science.

bronxelf

Nah. That will only last until the $cientologists start looking for their cut.

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Maggie

I have never understood the logic in this. So many places will not provide birth control as a part of insurance coverage but yet they will cover the birth of a baby. Seems to me it would be far cheaper to pay for birth control than all that comes with delivering a child. If it was base on pure cost.

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Eboni Khan

They are not against birth control, they want an exemption for the morning after pill, and other emergency contraception. I don't think the request is unreasonable. Most Christians don't have an issue with birth control, but the morning after pill is a step beyond that.

Wrong Weatherwax

I don't understand it either, but I think the issue isn't one of logical thought, rather of short-term gratification.

pancake

Can someone explain to me how the employer picks and choses the benefits? Clearly I don't understand how this works in the US, employer health coverage I mean.

Here, my employer provides prescription drug coverage through Blue Cross, meaning my employer is paying the Blue Cross Insurance premiums.

The program the employer registered us for offers 80% coverage on prescription drugs. (If we want more, we can purchase supplimentary insurance)

I don't think the employer has any say in what Blue Cross covers or doesn't. It, combined with Health Canada, has already decided for itself what is or isn't covered as a prescription drug, and when I go to fill a prescription the pharmacist bills Blue Cross for 80% right at the site, I only pay 20%. I don't think my employer ever even knows what I received nor should they.

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Wrong Weatherwax

It all comes from the negotiating process when an employer purchases insurance coverage. They buy group packages (usually). Its similar but on a broader scale to how you would pick supplementary insurance.

Maggie

Not really. The morning after pill is really nothing more than a large dose of contraception. You can achieve almost the same thing by taking several regular birth control pills at the same time. Regular contraception and emergency contraception both work the same way. The only difference is when one is taken.

They may have this mixed up with the abortion pill, which is an entirely different pill in both when its taken and how it works.

pancake

So when negotiating with the insurance provider, instead of just picking broad categories like prescription, dental, eye glasses, accupuncture etc they are negotiating at a more granular level like the specific drugs to be covered in the benefits package?

Hmm. Perhaps that happens here too and I just didn't know it. My personal experience is that people are covered for the same drugs, regardless of who is paying the premium for that benefit type. Where it varies is that one employer may offer dental and another not, or a different level of prescription coverage (80%, 50%, etc) but I haven't heard of differences when it comes to the specific drugs. I suppose it's possible though.

Eboni Khan

I agree their is little difference it is just a massive dose of birth control. I do understand how people like this could see it as against their beliefs, even if I don't agree with their position.

I do want to see how this ends up playing out for companies. If they will drop health insurance, pay the fine (which is less than the cost of health insurance) and force employees onto a public program.

Hobby Lobby pays above average wages and seems to care about their employees. This will be interesting to watch.

Melodie Darwin

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/09/14/HobbyLobby.pdf

It comes across as a bit controlling when they are unwilling to offer it no matter what. Apparently, they found they accidentally covered Plan B and Ella previously and have since dropped that.

Rock Chick

Employers should not be pushing their religious beliefs on their employees & by not allowing insurance for things like the morning after pill because of their religious beliefs is exactly what they are doing!

I also do not want to hear, if you don't like it work somewhere else! A lot of people can't simply jump from one job to another, especially one that pays the same rate or higher than the previous one.

I have taken the morning after pill once, yep it's basically a large dose of contraception taken not long after sex. Lets say I were living in the USA and working for a company that didn't provide insurance for it & it was just too expensive for me otherwise. I could have become pregnant, now I doubt they'd cover an abortion (I'm not talking about whether they should or not) & if I couldn't afford the morning after pill totally out of pocket than clearly I couldn't afford an abortion. So that would mean I would have been limited to a few choices:

Attempt a backyard abortion or something designed for me to miscarry (and fuck no, I so would not do that!)
Give birth and give the child up for adoption (My emotional stability would probably snap!)
Give birth & keep the child (The child would have a mother who wasn't emotionally ready for raising a child and be poor, I grew up & am poor, I want better for a child of mine & want them to have a mother who can emotionally cope with them.)

Now I doubt I'm the only one who would be left with these choices if denied the morning after pill & simply can't afford it without insurance.

However I was able to go to a Planned Parenthood clinic & pay a mere few bucks for the morning after pill.

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Maelstrom Eyre

It sounds like some employers want to become dangerously close to discriminating against their own employees based on religious beliefs. Expecting all of their employees to live a lifestyle of never having to use contraception is a violation of the employees' privacy. It's not like they're screwing in the stock room and getting knocked up.

Or, maybe they are. . .who knows?

I don't really care what charities and causes my own employer wants to get involved with. I don't care what religious beliefs my employer has. I'm not working there to be involved in charities or causes, I'm working there to make money to pay my bills and hopefully have a little left over to get some enjoyment out of life. I don't generally get involved in "office fundraising" stuff or giving to whatever charity they're pushing on us.

But if my employer offers healthcare, takes money out of my paycheck to pay for part of that healthcare, and then tries to deny some types of coverage based on the religious beliefs of the owners of the company - that's getting a bit too invasive.

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Misty Harley

They don't actually negotiate. They bid out, if that makes a bit more sense.

Insurance companies are contacted with how many number of employees the company has and their current plan cost/inclusions/deductibles, etc.

The insurance company then comes back with a price bid for like-kinded insurance, a step up and a step down (ie less coverage/more coverage and less deductible/more deductible).

The company then makes a choice as to what plan best benefits them and/or their workers (company specific, some look at bottom dollar and some look at over all health care for their employees) and gives that one to their employees either at cost to the employee for the premium (deducted from paycheck) or they cover the company covers the premium themselves.

Often, they have to price out dental separately because health insurance companies do not generally include that in their plans. Same with eye care (and that's a rarity in the states unless you have a good employer willing to do the leg work for a decent price for you through group rates OR buy it separately)

So there is no actual negotiations just a 'bid war' based on what will be covered and what the deductibles will cost. The less coverage and the higher deductible the lower the premium.

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Asher Bertrand

Why is that?

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Maelstrom Eyre

I once attended a church where the pastor talked about birth control and contraception, and he stated that there is nothing "sinful" about barrier methods of contraception. Things like condoms, female condoms, spermacidal foams, and other things that prevent the sperm from surviving long enough to reach the egg.

However, he said that anything beyond that. . .including birth control methods that prevented a fertilized egg from implanting itself in the uterus. . .were as "bad" as abortion. Because now it was the beginning of a new "life" and should be allowed to grow.

Not saying I agree with any of that, but that's one of the "reasons" I have heard.

I have a Mirena/IUD. I've had one for over three years now, and it's awesome. I don't know how many fertilized eggs have been evicted from my uterus since I got it. . .which is kind of the point. It's doing what it's supposed to do, and I'm not stuck taking care of a baby I don't want. Just as important, I'm not missing work because of maternity leave, childcare issues, and taking care of sick children all the time.

I'd really rather just have a TL, but it's difficult to find doctors who will agree to do a TL on a woman who doesn't have kids. . .even if she does not want them.