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Rock Chick · 08-09-2012, 08:45 AM

Listen, my ex didn't see the need for religion & it brought many negative things about, he was and I presume still is an atheist but he didn't push that point of view onto others.

Actually, I myself, debated that point with him a bit even though I'm not religious and consider myself agnostic.

I've never come across anyone I consider a fundamental atheist or whatever. Not even when I was religious.

However I have seen some people approach that level but not actually meet it.

Rosemaery Lorefield · 08-09-2012, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kara Spengler

I am guessing you have been lucky enough to never have run into a "pushy" Athiest? Not all are, but I classify anyone that feels they have to enforce their faith system on you as the same.

I can't attest to whether an Atheist has been pushy with you or not, but Atheism is not a "faith system". A lack of belief is just that. There is no system of worship involved in any manner.

Eris · 08-09-2012, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kara Spengler

Not those specifically as I have held that stance before them. They are an example of what I mean though, people who think they need to enforce how they believe/not believe on others when the only people affected by whatever they are railing against are CHOOSING to have it affect them. The 'this does not fit my world view so therefore you must stop it' attitude is the same as fundamentalist Christians as far as I am concerned.

Wouldn't that be more accurately described as evangelical than fundamentalist?

Surreal · 08-09-2012, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kara Spengler

Not those specifically as I have held that stance before them. They are an example of what I mean though, people who think they need to enforce how they believe/not believe on others when the only people affected by whatever they are railing against are CHOOSING to have it affect them. The 'this does not fit my world view so therefore you must stop it' attitude is the same as fundamentalist Christians as far as I am concerned.

As I said not all Athiests do that but some do. All systems have them. Hope that you never run into a fundamentalist Wiccan.

If that's what you took away from my comments, then I'd suggest re-reading them. Here is the tl;dr version.

Do whatever you want to yourself.

Belief != Evidence.

Back up your opinion with facts or admit that they are opinions.

You wouldn't use German and call it English, so stop using defined terms inaccurately.

My only fanaticism is that dark chocolate rules all others (and white chocolate isn't), as evidenced by my addressing efforts to lump chiropracty, accupuncture and massage in with faith healing and homeopathy.

Surreal · 08-09-2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosemaery Lorefield

I can't attest to whether an Atheist has been pushy with you or not, but Atheism is not a "faith system". A lack of belief is just that. There is no system of worship involved in any manner.

I swear this same point has been brought up over and over and over and over and over.... and yet it doesn't seem to take hold for some people.

It almost feels biological.

Rosemaery Lorefield · 08-09-2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal

I swear this same point has been brought up over and over and over and over and over.... and yet it doesn't seem to take hold for some people.

It almost feels biological.

I guess some people just cannot fathom a lack of belief, it just *has* to be a religion of some sort...

Rock Chick · 08-09-2012, 09:14 AM

A lack of belief is now a belief system? When did the laws of logic go out the window?

Now I am not religious and don't really consider myself to have a faith based belief system but maybe a spiritual belief system is more accurate. However that isn't the same as lack of belief.
Yes there is a lack of belief in a religious context but some people would say I'm technically an atheist, although I chose to call myself agnostic.

Now my point is my agnosticism is not a belief system.

Maggie · 08-09-2012, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal

It almost feels biological.

Speaking of this. Did anyone else watch lastnights through the wormhole? I still love his voice. Anyway it was about the search for God. Did we invent God or did he invent us? One of the issues that surfaced is we seemed to be hardwired from birth to belived in the spiritual.

Rock Chick · 08-09-2012, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggie

One of the issues that surfaced is we seemed to be hardwired from birth to belived in the spiritual.

That theory seems illogical considering the amount of people who don't believe in anything spiritual. Now I can see it from the perspective of societies rather than individuals but not as far as hardwired from birth.

Ashiri · 08-09-2012, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandma Bates

This is classic. I followed on of the links in the Mother Jones article (A Beka Book :: Distinctives) to find this little tidbit about mathematics:
...
Anywho... long story -> short: The idea that mathematics is a self consistent, divine gift has been proven false. The idea of an "absolute mathematics" has been questioned ever since the definition of non-Euclidean geometries. Math is a human language and has fundamental flaws. It just happens to be too important and useful to not use it.

Another European innovation that came from the mixture was the study of probability. I wonder if the satanic analysis of randomness leads people away from the divine? Please excuse me, I need to go "cast some lots" to decide this question.

I now see why the failed evangelist in another thread just couldn't grasp what several people were trying to get through to him...

And given that geosciences and biology had already been given the fundamental treatment, and now mathematics has... what next?

A fundamentalist approach to chemistry... or to physics....

Surreal · 08-09-2012, 09:39 AM

What's next? Well these folks think we should roll back to at least the 50s or earlier on education.

The Book of Knowledge

Quote:

The history and information they contain regarding the nations and world history is of great value. This set of books will be most valuable as we continue to see our history and the facts of world history distorted and many times changed entirely to fit social or political agendas. I have been impressed recently with the history of religion and the information on the history of the church they contain. I find it ironic the last year they were published is the following year, in our history when "God" was removed from the public school system, when its decline became more evident and accelerated. You would think with Science advancements of DNA that prove humanity did not evolve from apes that the "system" or textbooks of today would have been updated to reflect the error of Darwin's theory or at least that it was first published as such. If a home owned only one set of real books that have not been tainted with political correctness, these would be the gem to own.

Lexbot Sinister · 08-09-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

All true, but it's just an aside from the more critical and central issue that slavery is morally reprehensible.

I don't care if slaves are kept in luxury with limousines, gourmet food and fine clothes. As long as a human being is owned by another human being and can be sold, beaten or killed with impunity, it's wrong.

W.r.o.n.g.

It goes even further than that. The difference between greek slaves and american black slaves? Slaves in Greece were still considered humans, only with their rights stripped.

Black slaves were not considered human. It's a very important difference, because non-humans could not obtain human rights no matter what they did. They would still be a different species.

Eris · 08-09-2012, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal

What's next? Well these folks think we should roll back to at least the 50s or earlier on education.

The Book of Knowledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by HS Treasures

As far as we have found, they were first published by Grolier Publishing in 1890 and ended in 1963. [...] These set of books also contains a unique index system in the last volume which include: [...] the Constitution of the US.-----UNEDITED, COMPLETE AND UNABRIDGED.

Nothing wrong with that picture.

Amity Slade · 08-09-2012, 10:03 AM

Most individuals do not see themselves as having any belief system- they just see themselves as being right.

Kara Spengler · 08-09-2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosemaery Lorefield

I can't attest to whether an Atheist has been pushy with you or not, but Atheism is not a "faith system". A lack of belief is just that. There is no system of worship involved in any manner.

I am guessing you just happened to miss all of those times I said "belief/nonbelief" or some variation?

Maggie · 08-09-2012, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock Chick

That theory seems illogical considering the amount of people who don't believe in anything spiritual. Now I can see it from the perspective of societies rather than individuals but not as far as hardwired from birth.

Like any theory its subject to some debate but it seems quiet logical the way it was presented and even takes your comment into account.

They took children from several ages and told them there was an invisible princess watching them. The children took it on simple faith that there was an invisible princess in the room even though all their senses told them different.

So basically at birth we maybe hardwired to believe in the spiritual and are more willing to take things on faith. As we get older some of us are able to over come this programming and see the world as it really is.

Rosemaery Lorefield · 08-09-2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kara Spengler

I am guessing you just happened to miss all of those times I said "belief/nonbelief" or some variation?

I responded to the post in the context that it was presented. You didn't use those terms in the post I responded to, and really, am I supposed to be keeping track of what you say everywhere?

Kara Spengler · 08-09-2012, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosemaery Lorefield

I can't attest to whether an Atheist has been pushy with you or not, but Atheism is not a "faith system". A lack of belief is just that. There is no system of worship involved in any manner.

Now who is not reading?

I said faith, I did not say worship. A perfectly valid answer to the question "what is the system" is "none".

As I said though MANY times when I was using the word "belief" in talking about religions I used "belief/nonbelief" in order to include athiests. The ONE time I wanted to use a less cumbersome phrase is the one you picked up on (and I just explained my rationale above) while ignoring the others. Sensitive much?

Eris · 08-09-2012, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggie

Like any theory its subject to some debate but it seems quiet logical the way it was presented and even takes your comment into account.

They took children from several ages and told them there was an invisible princess watching them. The children took it on simple faith that there was an invisible princess in the room even though all their senses told them different.

So basically at birth we maybe hardwired to believe in the spiritual and are more willing to take things on faith. As we get older some of us are able to over come this programming and see the world as it really is.

That example sounds like a predisposition for children to believe what adults tell them. Such an instinct would obviously increase a child's chances of survival, so it's logical it would be selected for and passed on.

Rosemaery Lorefield · 08-09-2012, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kara Spengler

As I said though MANY times when I was using the word "belief" in talking about religions I used "belief/nonbelief" in order to include athiests.

Like I said, I do not track all the things you say. I'm really not sure what makes you think I would?

Quote:

The ONE time I wanted to use a less cumbersome phrase is the one you picked up on (and I just explained my rationale above) while ignoring the others. Sensitive much?

For one thing, I am not what I would call an Atheist, so no I don't think I'm all sensitive about it. I was pointing out your mistake, and did so in a non-aggressive manner, so I think you are the one who is being super sensitive. I still think you have the wrong idea of Atheism, but since you are so offended by being corrected, I'll just leave you to it

Maybe someone else will explain why calling Atheism a non-belief is still calling it a belief system.

Kara Spengler · 08-09-2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eris

That example sounds like a predisposition for children to believe what adults tell them. Such an instinct would obviously increase a child's chances of survival, so it's logical it would be selected for and passed on.

Which fits with why, if someone is not going to follow their parents beliefs/nonbeliefs they do it about the time they are completely independent entities and not reliant on them financially or in other ways. So figure in their late 20s or early 30s, not too long after any college and such.

Kara Spengler · 08-09-2012, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosemaery Lorefield

Like I said, I do not track all the things you say. I'm really not sure what makes you think I would?

In the same thread just a few posts away and on the same sub-sub-sub-topic? Yes, I would expect you to read the other nearby posts that people made before just assuming.

Or am I supposed to copy/paste everything I said into all of my posts for you?

Maggie · 08-09-2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eris

That example sounds like a predisposition for children to believe what adults tell them. Such an instinct would obviously increase a child's chances of survival, so it's logical it would be selected for and passed on.

Very good points. I had not considered this. From an evolutionary point of view that would make tons of more sense than being hardwared to believe in God.

Speaking with in my own experiences, when I was a child I really don't remember being all that spiritual inclined. In fact I remember sitting in church and thinking to myself this is all a bunch of bullshit. I really didn't find a spiritual side till I got older and started looking for religions that fit in with my view of the world like Wicca and Buddhism. It was after I got a dose of all the other religions out there other than Christianity that I decided to "roll my own" so to say.

Rosemaery Lorefield · 08-09-2012, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kara Spengler

Or am I supposed to copy/paste everything I said into all of my posts for you?

WTF? As I pointed out, I still find your assertion to be incorrect as you stated it in earlier posts.
You clearly only half read my post if this is what you got from it, so I'm not sure why you believe that I should have paid unflinchingly detailed attention to all of your previous posts???

detrius · 08-09-2012, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal

You wouldn't use German and call it English

Kindergarten - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

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08-09-2012, 09:14 AM	#57 (permalink)
Rock Chick A neko for all seasons Not always wearing her tail Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 9,797 My Mood: SL Join Date: September 2010 Client: Current v.3 & Catznip	A lack of belief is now a belief system? When did the laws of logic go out the window? Now I am not religious and don't really consider myself to have a faith based belief system but maybe a spiritual belief system is more accurate. However that isn't the same as lack of belief. Yes there is a lack of belief in a religious context but some people would say I'm technically an atheist, although I chose to call myself agnostic. Now my point is my agnosticism is not a belief system.

08-09-2012, 10:03 AM	#64 (permalink)
Amity Slade Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,043 Scrabble Blast Champion!	Most individuals do not see themselves as having any belief system- they just see themselves as being right.

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