AshaSekayi Ra

I'm in an interracial marriage, so I find it prudent to keep an eye on the current interracial marriage/bi-racial children negative rhetoric that is being spewed in some states today. When I noticed that some evangelicals started to poke at the religious validity of interracial marriage with a stick, I started to wonder if this was some sort of back door move to attack gay marriage along with interracial marriage in one stroke.

Sonja Aeghin

Certainly true. There's no need to be complacent. But frankly, Congressional brinkmanship over another debt ceiling hike right around November is a greater threat than Romney right now.

And Bush only won in 2000 because the conservative-leaning SCOTUS ruled in his favor, giving him Florida and the Electoral College victory. Even without legal shenanigans, one can gain the White House without winning the popular vote nationally. It's on a state-by state basis thanks to the Electoral College.

Joshua Nightshade

One thing in Obama's favour as well, at least from where I stand, is the general dissatisfaction most Republicans have with Romney. Look at how long it took him to finally get acknowledgement as the front runner, though he doesn't even officially have the nomination yet. The Republicans were desperate to go for anybody but Romney and it was only because every other candidate managed to self-destruct themselves first that they begrudgingly admitted Romney was going to be the candidate in November. I think it will work in Obama's favour (if only that hopefully a lot of people decide the best choice is staying home) but given the widespread voter irregularities in 2004 following Bush's "re-election" I wouldn't put it past anybody to mess with things if the actual vote isn't going in their favour.

Oh sure, I meant more that, at least where I was, no one remotely thought Bush was going to become president and I think that had a trickle effect on everybody. I was a teenager in New Orleans but even around teachers and family nobody thought he had a chance, and when he got installed as president months later (at least from my perspective) that galvanised a lot of people around me into sitting up and taking that stuff seriously. That was the first time I actually took an interest in politics (which laid the basis for me going into activism at all a few years later) because I realised it was dangerous to assume anything when it comes to those circles.

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Void

.... so I made a couple of images that I think capture the whole voting ethic in the current climate, please feel free to comment or redistribute...

Attached Thumbnails

   

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bronxelf

This is true, but Romney isn't Bush2. He's not. I may have loathed Bush2 (and I did, and do), but if you were the right kind of person, you found him likeable.

No one finds Romney likeable. At best he's an easy puppet for financial interests, but really... That's it. He's got no military experience, no foreign policy experience (and has already managed to piss off people we'd otherwise count as allies) his voting and political record is in opposition to the current status of his candidacy, so it's easy enough to see the hand up his ass.

They're throwing Koch money behind this guy which is like an unlimited well and *even with that* he's going to have an uphill battle which is why they're poking at the bear of the base in August. Nephi's right. It's a dress rehearsal for the smoke and mirrors show in November.

The Republicans *don't have* a candidate worth backing, and they *KNOW IT*. At best they'll hold their nose and pull a lever for Romney because Romney doesn't have a little (D) after his name and/or he's not black, but it's not a vote of approval. It's a vote of desperation.

I've felt all along (and said this right here at SLU months ago) that they're setting Romney up to lose. They don't have a strong candidate this time round, and they know it. They want to buy another four years to find someone *really* fucking terrible (Santorum? BOBBY JINDAL? *barf*) to present as a winnable candidate for the base in four years.

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Aliselia Aeon

About 10 or so years ago I was discussing Gay marriage with one of my students. I shoul dhave known better, btw. Anyway, she was talking about the usual "it will destroy our society" bullshit and I said "That's what they used to say about interracial marriage". Her response? "Well, they were right about that".

What can one say to that other than "I didn't realize you are a racists as well as a homophobe"

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Joshua Nightshade

Yeah, at a certain point, attempting to educate gives way to just writing someone off as a moron.

Aliselia Aeon

Yeah, I usually start out by trying to educate. If I see that isn't working I usually just give up on them. I will state my opinion and then remove myself. I actually told one student that perhaps it would be better if they found a teacher that they had more of a rapport with. I'm pretty sure she felt victimized. Tough.

Kara Spengler

None of us plebes could have affected it no matter what we did. Florida screwed up (again) and he was selected rather than elected.

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Sonja Aeghin

This is why the veepstakes has become all-important. At best, the GOP could hope to repeat the 1900 ticket, where the veep nominee could play the Teddy Roosevelt to Romney's McKinley (albeit without the advantage of being the incumbent President). More realistically, the VP spot will be an anointing for 2016. It won't be as much voting for Romney as it will be a vote against Obama and for whoever wins the veep lottery, be it Rubio, Ryan, Jindal etc.

bronxelf

I'd say "please. not Bobby Jindal", except that's comedy gold, because he's an *idiot* and would eventually sink the campaign just by talking.

Rosemaery Lorefield

Civil rights should NEVER be voted on. They should be upheld by the government. NOT restricted by the government, and not voted on by the people.

Rosemaery Lorefield

I get what you are asking, but the only answer I have is that civil rights are civil rights. If one person has the right to do something, then all people need to have that right. On the authority of the US Constitution, specifically the 14th amendment

Rosemaery Lorefield

Agreed. And I think the reason is they are unconcerned with having power in the executive branch.

As long as they have power in the senate and/or congress, they can, have, and will continue to prevent any forward progress in this country, and further only the interests of corporate "persons".

Cindy Claveau

So he's different from Dan Quayle, Sarah Palin, Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney?

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Brenda Archer

The constitution of a country is that dubious step where we make value decisions that cannot be proven, because they will define us.

If the people on the hard right could ADMIT they cannot stomach the values in our Constitution, they would be separatists and easily identified. Thing is - this already happened, and we couldn't let them go.

So instead they fall all over themselves to take possession of every patriotic symbol and to redefine the idea of what is central to the culture. It is an attempt to discredit the Constitution by creating a shadow parallel which they will then try to reify and legitimize. Biblical literalism and inerrancy is not really going to work for this, coming out with a manifesto makes it obvious we're dealing with the zombie of rebellious Dixie, so the innuendo and display of conformity is all they've got and it's hollow.

The hard right is therefore in a waiting game to erode the values of the larger society to such a degree that the point of reveal won't be remarkable.

The first day of 9/11 you could still get news reporting - people were talking about what happened, the ongoing efforts for rescue, the motives of the perpetrators, etc. Then by the next day the media had switched over to a religious mourning funeral that was essentially a church service on the air and 24/7. I was astonished because - being originally from the Northeast as I am and located in Utah at the time - it seemed this was going much too far in the direction of a particular religion. The frank symbolisms of a Protestant funeral were freely employed in a way that it would have seemed quite callous to object.

These things are innovations, injected into the culture at points of stress in which people will generally go along with it because their attention is on something far more pressing or because any ritual will be accepted out of graciousness. We can expect more of it - stress injected into society, followed by ritual based on a value system that is not Constitutional.

I would have expected a symbolism that was multifaith with an option for the nonreligious, and the people of NYC preferred this themselves as a reflection of who they naturally are. But that's SO not what the media put out into the hinterlands and it was NEW.

Most people aren't able to look at a culture analytically and I don't think they realize when they're being pushed to accept cultural ideas that are not their own as long as they seem superficially similar. Bullies get away with much of what they do by structuring the situation so bystanders don't feel they've gone "too far."

Baltha

The other way of looking at this question is, on what authority are gay men and women denied the right to marry?

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Baltha

This whole situation is a classic case of "what would Jesus do?" and I'm pretty damned sure he'd be doing more than stating support for gay marriage on phone polls.
I'm repeating myself here but every non Christian in the country could vote for gay marriage and still nothing will change without huge support from Christians.

Kara Spengler

Chicks-For-Gays: Eat Well for Good | DC Vegan

Cristiano

Having his brother as governor at the time certainly helped, along with several corrupt officials who were anxious to hand him the election. Flash forward to 2004, and surprise surprise Ohio's Diebold voting machines handed him a win as well. It's really depressing. I think they stayed out of 2008 because even they didn't want Palin anywhere near the WH, but all bets are off for 2012.

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Cristiano

I bet that a lot of the people who are opposed to gay marriage feel the same about interracial marriage, it just isn't quite as accepted to talk about that in public (though since Obama's election, all bets seem to be off on that one anyway). They have all kinds of excuses, but it all comes down to simple hatred of those who are different.

Cindy Claveau

Wait'll the intergalactic aliens get here.

I hope they bring their birth certificates with them.

Casey Pelous

Are they cute? Are they employed? Can you introduce me?

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Chip Midnight

Precisely. Romney if left to his own devices would be a moderate and likely mostly harmless, but the man has no spine and no genuine convictions that anyone can see. Watching him kiss Trump's ass (of all people) in order to win the birther vote should be all the proof anyone needs that Romney has no principles and will be nothing but a puppet for those who have something he wants.

Dickie Swansong

Do they do teh anal probe?

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