MissKillian Barbosa

Okay, we got the Klan thread.. check
We got the infant penis shaving thread.. check

How do you feel about coerced abortions?

While watching a show on teen pregnancy last night, I said aloud, "If I DID have a 14 year old daughter who found herself pregnant, I would march her directly to the doctor for an abortion. there's no way I'd allow her to compromise her future by raising a child she isn't equip to have"

I was reminded that this would now be illegal in Michigan, as a "coerced abortions" law was recently voted into effect.

Well, unless the Michigan legislature is willing to raise this child it has no business telling ME to. Even if my 14 year old wanted to.. I wouldn't allow it. (And then I'd have her implanted with an IUD or some sort of passive birth control if she was reticent about taking birth control like the girls on the show were)

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Silly Ol' Killy Dilly

Lord

So, your saying your not going to raise a child for your teenager ? What kind of Grandma are you anyways ?

Nadia

Alrighty then, something tells me this is going to be an extremely volatile day. When I saw the thread title, my first thought was "Damn, really.. another one?"

And, just to answer.. I'm with you. People will go with the 14 year old is not a child, and my opinion is they are a child until age 18.

The 14 year old isn't responsible enough. Either the grandparents raise the child, she drops out of school and gets a job *ugh* or she puts it up for adoption (which works for all the anti-abortionists).

I remember discussing with my sons' doctor about drug testing. Wasn't regarding my kids, just something I had read. I was told yes, they could do it. But, they were not allowed to tell the parents the results, unless the CHILD agreed.

Bullshit is what it is.

Same goes with abortions. And, I'm refusing to discuss whether right or wrong. Kids have the right to say no, even if the parents say yes. I haven't looked into it far enough to ask, at what age do they get that right? Considering I started my period at 11, could an 11 year old still fight the parent on this?

I started relatively young (15), and I started later than most of my friends. And, for me, the main reason I didn't get pregnant was because my mother told me, "I'm not raising no fuckin babies. You get pregnant, you're getting the fuck out and going on your own." Whether it was true or not, I'll never know. Just that it scared me enough to make sure I was always protected.

Nadia

Umm, put the kid up for adoption. A child is not responsible enough to take care of a baby. I didn't choose to have a baby. I can't even get a choice in whether the child has a baby, and I should feel responsible enough to raise that child?

It's one thing the grandparents who want to do this. Do it. But, not wanting do raise another child isn't wrong either.

I told my kids from when they were old enough to understand it. You fuck around and get a girl pregnant, you are tied to that person for the next 18-21 years at the least. They get a piece of whatever money you make. You have to drop out of school and support the kid. You have to give up your life to support that kid.

Would I as a parent help? Probably. HELP. But, I will not do the job, again.

Rosemaery Lorefield

I feel the same way. Legally, I am responsible for my child and her medical care. I cannot legally abandon her (not that I would) so by default, the state is telling me that I am required to raise a grand baby if she chooses not to have an abortion? I'm pretty sure if I tried to force adoption she would win that court fight too. And since I would be the only responsible adult in the house, I would be required by law to make sure the kid is fed, etc. Wow, thanks Michigan, for fucking me over!

Thank goodness mine is nearing 18. No gramma-mommy here!

Sonja Aeghin

I'm waiting for them to pass such a law here I'm surprised we haven't beat them to it.

Eboni Khan

I would just raise the Grandchild. Or provide full support for it. If they wanted to place the child for adoption I would support that. I'm not against abortion, but I don't think you should be able to force anyone to have an abortion or take birth control, even if you are their guardian.

I hate the attitude in this country that if you have a child young you write your life off. I have a friend that had a baby at 16, graduated at the top of her class from an exclusive high school, went to Univ of Michigan took her baby with her and graduated with honors with an engineering degree in 4 years, and now has to masters degrees. Her family instead of writing her off, helped her.

How is forcing someone to drop out of school a good idea? "I want you to make minimum wage and be lower class forever, love Mom"

Rosemaery Lorefield

Not everyone can afford to raise their children's children.
If you would choose to raise the kid, good on you, but it is not what I would choose.

Nadia

For you, maybe that's the norm. Too many cases I've seen, the girl figures she has a built-in babysitter. Goes out, parties, has more kids.

Parents who want to raise the grandchild, more power to them. Some parents have spent 15ish years raising a child, and have spent their life counting the days/years until the kid is out on their own and they have their freedom back. All of a sudden to find out, um, no.. you've got an additional 20 years to do this job.

I've seen way too many grandparents who should have been able to enjoy their lives after raising their own kids, after retirement, having to give up the life they deserve to raise grandchildren. I used plural. Because once you start raising Jackie's child/ren, Jason wants you to do the same for his. And, of course, if they pay you, it's way below what's standard for babysitting fees.

I've seen both sides. I've seen less "successful" teenage mother stories than fucked up ones.

Eboni Khan

I can completely understand not being able to afford it, I just don't think that is a justification to force someone into an abortion against their will.

MissKillian Barbosa

I applaud your friend, she is a huge exception to the rule, however. Teen mothers are most likely going to be abandoned by the father and wind up living in poverty.. being the very thing Republicans shudder at. IF I had a daughter (And all my talk is really just that, because I don't even have a daughter to begin with) I wouldn't want her future put in peril for a momentary lapse in judgement.

That being said, everyone's life experience is their own, and if abortion is not an option for you, morally, than so be it. to each his own..

except for my imaginary 14 year old.. Her own belongs to me.

pancake

My imaginary daughter would get Norplant for her 14th birthday.

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Asher Bertrand

What I love (by that I mean hate) about the Michigan law is that there's no corresponding prohibition against forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term. That's perfectly legal.

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Surreal

I don't care if the girl is 11, the parents shouldn't have the right to for her to have an invasive medical procedure performed on her for any reason other than to save her life/health. She should have the right to the choice. Sorry, but old enough to have sex is old enough to have a say in what happens if pregnancy results.

Persuade her to take birth control, have an abortion, put the kid up for adoption - fine!

You can even write her off and disown her if she wants to keep the child. Maybe that's your idea of being a loving parent, but it's not mine.

MissKillian Barbosa

A few of the young girls on the show "Our America, With Lisa Ling- Teen Pregnancy" were SO nonchalant about getting pregnant and birth control.. "Girls at my school said don't take the pill cuz' you'll get all fat."

It wasn't shocking.. but it was kinda shocking..

Eboni Khan

It happens like that, because people force it that way. You don't need a man to support a child, a woman can easily support a child on her own if she picks a decent career that actually pays a living wage (math and technology are excellent choices).

My friend, they tried to kick her out her exclusive college prep high school, because she was "a bad influence, and ruined her future". At most high schools once girls have babies, they are forced off the college track, encouraged to drop out, and encouraged to sign up for welfare.

I volunteered with teen moms for years and with encouragement, support and advice they can go to college and succeed. 4 year universities have family housing and day care centers on campus. They are less likely to party like their peers and more motivated towards success.



Good to know children are still considered property in America.

MissKillian Barbosa

And you're entitled to feel that way.. I just don't think your feelings should be forced on other parents who don't have the wherewithal to raise an 11 year old's baby for her or see their 11 year old carrying a baby to term to satisfy someone elses sense of moral outrage.

MissKillian Barbosa

See? A Trifecta!!!

Polo

I hate the way so many reality TV shows glamorize teen motherhood. It's bound to be influencing some kids.

But once the girl is pregnant, I can't like giving either the parents or the state the right to decide either that she must abort or that she must carry to term. That's her decision (with the proviso that second, and certainly third-trimester abortion should be restricted in some ways).

It's her body.




But on the topic of the grandparents' being legally responsible to raise the grandchild...are there such laws? I would oppose them, if so.

Elysium Hynes

I donīt think it ha anything to do with moral outrage but with choice of what happens with your body sorry, for me itīs crystal clear.

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pancake

The mixed messaging about age and maturity level to chose what one can do with their own body always baffles me.

Drink? No
Vote? No
Drive? No
Get a tattoo? No
Carry pregnancy to term? Yes


ETA - Whatever your stance on teen pregnancy or abortion in general, I think we send strange and conflicting messaging to both teens and parents regarding where the line of rights and responsibilites are for a variety of issues when it comes to the idea of legal maturity.

Elysium Hynes

i donīt understand why you comparing these things tbh, for me itīs like apples and oranges.

Rosemaery Lorefield

I would agree, except that barring that route, the parents are forced into raising a child they did not want or even have the pleasure of creating themselves.

What else is a parent supposed to do? They have to work to support the family. But who's going to watch the kid? Oh, then they have to pay for daycare. But now that they are out of money, who's going to support the family?

This all puts undue stress on the (adult) parent.

pancake

Just making an observation that society can't seem to decide what a legal adult is when it comes to making decisions regarding their own body or decision that will impact their future.

Rosemaery Lorefield

This is all dependent on the adult parents having the resources to raise the baby or by some miracle, all of the intended social services coming together, the planets aligning and the "system" working like it should to support the young mother. A teen parent doesn't magically finish HS, go to college and choose a successful career as a non-parent teen might be able to.

Sure, you see some inspiring teen mom success stories here and there, but that is not the norm.