Cristiano

The outspoken Dan Savage has caused a bit of an uproar because of a tweet he sent today in response to GOProud endorsing Mitt Romney in spite of Romney being opposed to gay marriage.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...12/06/20/41884

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Asher Bertrand

What would you call an in-the-closet politician who votes against gay rights every chance he gets? It's not a hypothetical question, btw.

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Joshua Nightshade

Ha I used the same phrase at a talk once several years ago and the room EXPLODED.

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Lo Jacobs

Hell, I'm pissed about women voting against their rights, too. I don't always agree with Dan Savage, but this is kind of funny.

Also, wow to the people who responded to his Tweet. I love how "Ian Elevation" reclaims the word "faggot". Gay pride!

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Joshua Nightshade

Yeah. I think he was just looking for an opportunity to say "faggot." Probably gave him a stiffy.

detrius

Dunno, he seems to be genuine in trying to make the point that GOProud only exists so Republicans can have verified homosexuals making excuses for the gay-bashing of their party.

Using this kind of language was just deliberate provocation, but I guess that could just as well be some kind of 'right-wing talk radio host Tourette syndrome'.


ETA: ah, looks like I confused ~Dan~ Savage with ~Michael~ Savage for a moment.

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Joshua Nightshade

I think his point is mostly that GOProud is an entirely irrelevant organisation of self-hating homosexuals whose failure to come to terms with their sexuality would be pitying if they weren't trying to fuck over other gay people who don't have the same mental issues and internalised loathing they do.

Cristiano

Gay Republicans * shudder * That is just weird!

detrius

I find them quite useful though, because if you look at that group and see how the members are either

1. corrupt - in it for the tax breaks and jobs at lobbying firms, the "fuck you I got mine"-faction,
2. insane - like the dude who married a woman to counteract his sexuality or people who hate themselves because a book says they should,
3. ignorant - either genuinely lacking in the intelligence department or merely uninformed,
4. just plain old - relics from another era,

...you realize how fucked up the GOP really is for homosexuals.

It's like one of those minimum height requirement signs in an amusement park:
"You must be at least this crazy, dishonest or stupid to join the Republican happy-fun ride."

Joshua Nightshade

At the same time I don't believe that they're a political chip for conservatives either; maybe some of the more intelligent ones have realised the value in being able to point to conservative homosexuals and go "See, guys, they think we're cool!" the way that they do with conservative (and similarly self-hating) women, but most conservatives are so icked out at the very thought of sharing space with the gays that they are ignoring the political benefits of embracing a whacked out, irrelevant group like GOProud. See: kicking GOProud out of future events with that big Republican convention because they felt that they were inappropriate.

But even with the rebuke, GOProud keeps coming back begging for more. With them it's really about hating themselves and looking to offload that hatred "positively," IE: sucking the anuses of a demographic that would criminalise or kill them if given the chance.

I readily acknowledge being unempathetic when it comes to gay Republicans. While I went through a period of confusion and unhappiness with my sexuality as a teenager, I eventually grew out of it. I have a hard time conceptualising what it must be like to hate yourself so much that you would embrace something like Catholicism or hardline Christianity or the Republican party at the expense of your identity.

Beebo Brink

About ten years ago, one of my co-workers was a young (mid-20s) gay woman who was a Republican. She was out in the office and under no stretch of the imagination could be considered to be self-hating. I finally just opted for "self-centered and money-grubbing". This somewhat flippant observation was reinforced when she sent out wedding invitations for herself and her lover and tucked inside was a list of all the stores that they preferred for their wedding presents.

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Aimee Weber

Not to sound "self-centered and money-grubbing" but aren't wedding gift registries very common? I don't think I've been to a wedding that didn't have one.


<--- (by the way, when I get married my invitations will list stores where you can buy me these shoes.)

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Adeon Writer

Is his real twitter account actually "@FakeDanSavage" o_O

Richie Waves

It is, verified and all.

Amity Slade

I thought GOProud was an organization for people who found it easier to come out as gay than to come out as Libertarian.

Beebo Brink

This must be a generational gap issue because I was raised to never never assume anyone would buy you a gift. You were always to act completely suprised if they did so and to greet them just as warmly if they didn't.

Registries were at the store, not in the wedding invitation. So if you asked at a store, if a person was on the registry, it could help you.

Richie Waves

I've never seen one of those in my life. Here the usual is just chuck 50 quid in a card. 100 for couples.

Lo Jacobs

There must be a generation gap, because I feel they are very common. But I much prefer your way. I don't know why these things cropped up. More marketing strategies, and definitely ruder.

Isabeau Imako

Less a generation gap, and more of a regional or traditional one.

Beebo Brink

No, couldn't disagree more. This was a common standard of manners. At most one could say it was class-based.

Gabriell Anatra

Back in early part of the last century it was often needed. This is back when water was something you sometimes had to walk for miles to get to and electricity and indoor plumbing were luxuries.

That would be my experience. When I was young we had electricity and indoor water, but the indoor bathroom waited until we were well up into school. I still recall having to drag the washtub out and fill it for bath night.

By the latter half of the century it was a class matter but before that it was pretty much a given here. The house we're living in now had electricity built in, but it's plumbing was powered by a hand-cranked well up until the late 60's. It had been built in the late 30's and was considered fairly luxurious then.

These days it's mostly traditional though. I'd probably prefer to avoid it altogether as it's just another opportunity for a lot of people we don't know to get us something we've no use for or already have.

It's mostly just a marketing thing now, i think.

Void

perhaps I'm just enjoying a bit of schadenfreude, but isn't it correct to call someone by the label that their group associates with them?

there's a bit of a cutural gap here too. doesn't "house faggot" refer to the person that gets passed around like an object? I've only heard a few times, but that was the context I got... essentially a gay guy with no standards for themselves or others.

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Polo

Maybe, though I'd assumed that Savage was going for a parallel with the term "house n*gg*r". (The insult being that these people are subservient and disloyal to their own.)

Cristiano

For the record, I am registered at Steam. You can send me gifts, even though I'm not getting married.

Beebo Brink

Forgive me, but I haven't figured out how one gets from "wedding gift registries" to houses without indoor plumbing. I can read your words, they just don't make any sense to me.

And meanwhile, I'm relieved to find that I'm not as out-of-date as I feared. From a current etiquette discussion, exactly the answer I would have expected: