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**Arkady Arkright** · 06-18-2012, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

Suffering is a part of existing in this world, but God helps me through it. He holds my hand so to speak. I'm not alone.

No one is alone when they hear voices in their head...

xfrodobagginsx · 06-18-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aimee Weber

So Adam and Eve were perfect without knowledge. But God is omniscient. So what makes a being perfect? Lack of knowledge or all knowledge? Which is it?

By the way, didn't God tell Adam and Eve they would die if they ate the forbidden fruit, while the serpent told them it would grant them knowledge? Who can one trust in this crazy world?

Adam and eve had knowledge, but didn't have knowledge of good and evil. The serpent lied when he said that they wouldn't die if they ate the fruit. That's what he does, he mixes 99% truth in with 1% lie.

Imnotgoing Sideways · 06-18-2012, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliselia Aeon

They don't think they hate you. I think you overestimate your importance. I doubt anyone here cares enough about you to hate you. I know I don't. You are a way to pass the time and a plaything, nothing more.

^^ True, that. Just herp'n in my derp'n. =^-^=

Though... Lunch break is over now. (>.>)

Tracer Graves · 06-18-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

Like what? Chapter and verse please.

yes

Imnotgoing Sideways · 06-18-2012, 02:10 PM

Oh, and snakes still don't talk. (^_^)

xfrodobagginsx · 06-18-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amelia E

I'm still waiting for those "facts" and "evidence" that prove Jesus. C'mon, you have something no one else has, don't hold out!

Are you going to discuss this respectfully? If you agree to, then I will gladly provide you with the "facts" and "evidence" to prove Jesus.

xfrodobagginsx · 06-18-2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Graves

Here's a quick question, frodo (if you haven't ignored me). Do you observe the Sabbath?

Nope. I don't have to.

Imnotgoing Sideways · 06-18-2012, 02:12 PM

Crazy Christian Lady, Marguerite Perrin on Trading Spouses. - YouTube

(^_^)

Sonja Aeghin · 06-18-2012, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joy Honey

So the people who don't know anything about Jesus Christ are going to hell by default. Nice god you've got there.

There is literally nothing in the Bible that says so, however. In fact, both the Old Testament and Revelation say the dead sleep until the Day of the LORD. Even if it exists, no one has actually gone to hell yet. Frodo ought to have known that.

Amelia E · 06-18-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

Are you going to discuss this respectfully? If you agree to, then I will gladly provide you with the "facts" and "evidence" to prove Jesus.

I have been discussing them respectfully. You've just got your panties in a wad because I actually expect you to follow the rules of evidence. You've said you're going to many times, but you've been short on performance.

Facts
Evidence

Facts, properly cited, with links to reputable academic sources.
Evidence, that is verifiable and testable by the scientific method, properly cited, with links to the studies.

I'm waiting.

Amelia E · 06-18-2012, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

Nope. I don't have to.

Ah, so you don't follow the Ten Commandments? Tsk! Dissing the Big Ten, for shame.

Tracer Graves · 06-18-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amelia E

Tsk! Cite your sources, and provide links. You're asking us to believe this is all accurate on your word alone. Oh, btw, if you link to some apologetics site instead of a reputable scholarly resource, we'll be laughing at you.

It doesn't matter, none of those accounts actually refer to Jesus being a real person, just to the early Christians. We have no idea which events actually happened. The only source I saw that was contemporary with the time of Christ was not even talking about Christ, but philosophical reasons to withdraw from worldly life.

Kaimi Kyomoon · 06-18-2012, 02:20 PM

I do believe in a divine parent. And yet I feel so much more in common with the atheists posting on this thread than with the OP.

I was raised agnostic ("maybe there is/are god/gods but we haven't seen any evidence"). It seemed impossible to make myself suddenly start believing even though I could see how that might be comforting. I have always had a mind and a conscience and I figured if I was created by a god then that god would guide me via my mind and conscience. I always tried to do the right thing according to them.

Then when I was in my late thirties I began reading "how to live" lessons, written in the early 20th century by a Swami from India. I was hoping for a way to feel more comfortable in my skin and in the universe.

A main part of the lessons was meditation techniques. I started practicing them. Almost immediately I began to feel a loving presence. No one was more surprised than I. So I joined that church and nothing in it's teachings has ever contradicted itself or called for a suspension-of-disbelief type leap of faith.

I realize it might be nothing more than self-hypnosis, but it works for me.

We believe in re-incarnation which kind of takes the pressure off me to achieve kind of big success in this life.

We don't proselytize. We believe everyone is on their own best path towards conscious realization of God.

**Aliselia Aeon** · 06-18-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimi Kyomoon

I do believe in a divine parent. And yet I feel so much more in common with the atheists posting on this thread than with the OP.

I was raised agnostic ("maybe there is/are god/gods but we haven't seen any evidence"). It seemed impossible to make myself suddenly start believing even though I could see how that might be comforting. I have always had a mind and a conscience and I figured if I was created by a god then that god would guide me via my mind and conscience. I always tried to do the right thing according to them.

Then when I was in my late thirties I began reading "how to live" lessons, written in the early 20th century by a Swami from India. I was hoping for a way to feel more comfortable in my skin and in the universe.

A main part of the lessons was meditation techniques. I started practicing them. Almost immediately I began to feel a loving presence. No one was more surprised than I. So I joined that church and nothing in it's teachings has ever contradicted itself or called for a suspension-of-disbelief type leap of faith.

I realize it might be nothing more than self-hypnosis, but it works for me.

We believe in re-incarnation which kind of takes the pressure off me to achieve kind of big success in this life.

We don't proselytize. We believe everyone is on their own best path towards conscious realization of God.

Many paths to the same destination.

Sonja Aeghin · 06-18-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

Nope. I don't have to.

Ahem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew 5:17-18 KJV

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

All means all. By no means has all been fulfilled. And by no means have heaven and earth passed away. We're still here.

By exempting yourself from the Sabbath, thou hast sinned. Repent. Or do you deny the commandment of your own Lord, whom I quoted above?

**Aliselia Aeon** · 06-18-2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imnotgoing Sideways

Crazy Christian Lady, Marguerite Perrin on Trading Spouses. - YouTube

(^_^)

Those poor kids.

Eris · 06-18-2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

Because He wanted them to love Him because they WANTED to, not because He forced them to. Yes, He knew they would fail and immediately made provision for them, via His own Son's death. He didn't lie about anything. He just told them not to eat of it and warned them that He would die if they ate of it. The snake lied to them. He said that they wouldn't die if they ate the fruit, but they DID. God didn't lie. What an awesome God He is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genesis 2:17

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genesis 5:3-4

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

Genesis is clear. Gold told Adam he would die the day he ate the fruit. He did not. The snake said they would not die, and they would become as God knowing good and evil. Which is exactly what happened.

FlipperPA Peregrine · 06-18-2012, 02:38 PM

I AM EVIL HOMER!

Sonja Aeghin · 06-18-2012, 02:39 PM

Regardless of all that has happened, we must concede one fact to the OP, as we're almost to page 25:

Seyla Warden · 06-18-2012, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

So are you closing your mind or are you open to discussing MY reasons why the Bible is God's word?

Joy Honey · 06-18-2012, 02:52 PM

So, I was just thinking... God is a Jealous god. Jealousy (or envy) is one of the seven deadly sins. What gives there?

Also, if God is the only god, what's up with the jealousy?

Tapatalk. I guess it makes the forum easier to read on a phone...

Tracer Graves · 06-18-2012, 02:53 PM

First of all, nice copy paste

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

TOLEDOTH YESHU: (6 Century)
This is a derogatory version of the life of Jesus, growing out of the response of the Jewish community to Christianity. The tradition presented here is most commonly dated to approximately the 6th century CE. The text it self is closer to the 14th century.

Mentions the empty tomb and that the Jewish leaders found it empty. That Jesus was crucified on the eve of the Passover and that He claimed to be God. That Jesus performed sorcery, he healed, and that he taught Rabbis. All of this from a hostile source, with the references above it is a historical fact that Jesus did miracles. His enemies could not refute it, rather they explained it away as sorcery!

Umm, 600 years later...

Quote:

CELSUS

Quote:

: (2nd Century)
Criticizes the Gospels, unknowingly reinforces the authors and the content, he alludes to 80 different quotes in the Bible. Admits that the miracles of Jesus were generally believed in the 2nd century.

Over a century after the fact. We are not debating whether Christianity existed, genius. Also, cite this source. Show me what you mean by "generally believed". Also, which miracles?

Quote:

JULIAN THE APOSTATE

Quote:

: (332-363 A.D.)[/SIZE][/FONT]
Emperor of Rome mentions the Gospels, miracles and other facts about Jesus. Julian had struggled to end the power of Christians in the Roman Empire. Since the day fifty years earlier that Constantine conquered in the sign of the cross, Christian influence had steadily grown. As Julian lay dying from a mortal wound he made the following remark:
“As he bled, the dying emperor groaned, “You have conquered, O Galilean,” referring to Jesus Christ.[/SIZE][/FONT]

What does this have to do with eyewitness accounts of Jesus and his miracles?

Quote:

CLEMENT OF ROME

Quote:

: (100 A.D.)
Clement affirms the Resurrection, Gospels and that Jesus was sent to earth by God to take away our sins.
“Clement was the fourth bishop of Rome, the first being Peter. Did he know Peter and Paul? It is completely possible that those two Spirit-filled men taught him. Clement even wrote a letter to the Corinthian church that echoed the teachings of the apostles.”

100 years after, hearsay

Quote:

IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH

Quote:

: (50-107 A.D.)
Disciple of the apostles Peter, Paul, and John, who was martyred for his faith in Jesus. He was obviously convinced that Jesus really had lived and that Jesus was all that the apostles has said He was.
“…nearness to the sword is nearness to God; to be among the wild beasts is to be in the arms of God; only let it be in the name of Jesus Christ. I endure all things that I may suffer together with him, since he who became perfect man strengthens me…We have not only to be called Christians, but to be Christians.”
While the emperor Trajan was on a visit to Asia Minor, he arrested Ignatius. When the bishop confessed his faith in Christ, the Emperor sent him in chains to Rome to die. He was hustled to the arena at once and thrown to two fierce lions who immediately devoured him.

Wow, good for him. Not proof though. There are people who drank poison and killed themselves because of their conviction in modern times too. What does that mean? Not a whole hell of a lot.

Quote:

QUADRATUS

Quote:

: (125 A.D.)
Bishop of Athens and a disciple of the apostles. Church historian Eusebius has preserved the only work that we have from Quadratus.
“The deeds of our Savior were always before you, for they were true miracles; those that were healed, those that were raised from the dead, who were seen, not only when healed and when raised, but were always present. They remained living a long time, not only whilst our Lord was on earth, but likewise when he had left the earth. So that some of them have also lived in our times.”
Eusebius, IV, III

Still not eyewitness. Hearsay. I could go find people who claimed to witness miracles from modern Hindu Holy Men to. What credence would you lend their claims if I did so?

Quote:

EPISTLE OF BARNABAS

Quote:

: (130-38 A.D.)
Mentions the Resurrection, miracles, content of the Gospels and the crucifixion of Jesus.

And?

Quote:

ARISTIDES

Quote:

: (138-161 A.D.)[/SIZE][/FONT]
Aristides was a second-century Christian believer and philosopher from Athens. This portion of his defense of Christianity was addressed to the Roman Emperor Antonius Pius, who reigned from 138-161 A.D.
“The Son of the most high God, revealed by the Holy Spirit, descended from heaven, born of a Hebrew Virgin. His flesh he received from the Virgin, and he revealed himself in the human nature as the Son of God. In his goodness which brought the glad tidings, he has won the whole world by his life-giving preaching…He selected twelve apostles and taught the whole world by his mediatorial, light-giving truth.
And he was crucified, being pierced with nails by the Jews; and he rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. He sent the apostles into all the world and instructed all by divine miracles full of wisdom. Their preaching bears blossoms and fruits to this day, and calls the whole world to illumination.”
Carey, “Aristides,” 68.

138 years after, not eyewitness.

Quote:

JUSTIN MARTYR

Quote:

(106-167 A.D.)
Justin Martyr is regarded as one of the greatest early Christian apologists. He was born around 100 A.D and was beheaded for his faith in Jesus in 167 A.D. He mentions as facts many things about Jesus and Christianity, such as: The Magi (wise men who brought gifts from Arabia), King Herod, His crucifixion, His garments parted among the Roman soldiers, the apostles leaving him on the night of his arrest, his fulfilled prophecies, His resurrection and His ascending into heaven among many others. These quotes can be found in his debate with Trypho the Jew

Once again, not eyewitness. It's based merely on what he's been told.

Quote:

HEGESIPPUS

Quote:

]: (2 Century)
Eusebius draws the conclusion that Hegesippus was a Jew that wrote five books called, “Memoirs.” Only fragments remain of his original work in the writings of Eusebius. They show that Hegesippus traveled extensively trying to determine if the stories of Jesus and the apostles were true. He found that they were accurate, even in the troubled church in Corinth.
“The Corinthian church continued in the true doctrine until Primus became bishop. I mixed with them on my voyage to Rome and spent several days with the Corinthians, during which we were refreshed with the true doctrine. On arrival at Rome I pieced together the succession down to Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus, Anicetus being succeeded by Soter and he by Eleutherus. In every line of bishops and in every city things accord with the preaching of the Law, the Prophets, and the Lord.”
Eusebius, The History of the Church, 9.22.2.

Umm, once again, simply corroborating consistency of hearsay. This is not actual evidence and it isn't eyewitness.

Quote:

TRAJAN

Quote:

: (53-117 A.D.)
Trajan is a Roman Emperor who wrote a letter [see letter] in response to the Governor of Asia Minor, Pliny the Younger. Pliny needed advice in dealing with “Christians” who renounced their belief in Jesus due to fear of torture and execution.

What exactly does this prove?

Tracer Graves · 06-18-2012, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

MACROBIUS: (4th-5th Century)
Pascal (Pensees) mentions a quote of Augustus Caesar as an evidence to the murder of the 7-20 male babies (this is based on the population of Bethlehem in 4-6 B.C., which was 700-1,000 people) by King Herod in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:16).
King Herod heard that a king was to be born and his fear and mental instability caused him to kill these male children under two years of age. King Herod killed his Wife, mother in law, and three sons. This is in character with his life of murder and paranoia. King Herod’s reign was described by his enemies as, “He stole to the throne like a fox, ruled like a tiger, and died like a dog.”
Saturnalia, lib. 2, ch.4.

Granted, the gospels themselves conflict on the Herod story. You're really gonna need cite your sources here. This little copypasta of yours really doesn't provide enough info. And even if Ceasar did say that, who says Ceasar was right?

Quote:

HADRIAN

Quote:

: (106-167 A.D.)
ustin Martyr quotes this Roman Emperor’s letter to Minucius Fundanus, proconsul of Asia Minor. This letter deals with accusations from pagans against the Christians.“I have received the letter addressed to me by your predecessor Serenius Granianus, a most illustrious man; and this communication I am unwilling to pass over in silence, lest innocent persons be disturbed, and occasion be given to the informers for practicing villainy. Accordingly, if the inhabitants of your province will so far sustain this petition of theirs as to accuse the Christians in some court of law, I do not prohibit them from doing so.

But I will not suffer them to make use of mere entreaties and outcries. For it is far more just, if any one desires to make an accusation, that you give judgment upon it. If, therefore, any one makes the accusation, and furnishes proof that the said men do anything contrary to the laws, you shall adjudge punishments in proportion to the offences. And this, by Hercules; you shall give special heed to, that if any man shall, through mere calumny, bring an accusation against any of these persons, you shall award to him more severe punishments in proportion to his wickedness.”
Justin Martyr, The First Apology, Chapters, 68-69.

wut?

Quote:

JUVENAL

Quote:

: (55 AD-127 AD)

Quote:

Juvenal makes a reference of the tortures of Christians by Nero in Rome.
“But just describe Tigellinus and you will blaze amid those faggots in which men, with their throats tightly gripped, stand and burn and smoke, and you trace a broad furrow through the middle of the arena.”
Satires, 1, lines 147-157.

Once again, this only has to do with the existence of Christians. Nobody is contesting that.

Quote:

SENECA

Quote:

: (3 B.C.-65 A.D.)

Quote:

Seneca mentions the cruelties that Nero imposes upon Christians.
“The other kind of evil comes, so to speak, in the form of a huge parade. Surrounding it is a retinue of swords and fire and chains and a mob of beasts to be let loose upon the disemboweled entrails of men. Picture to yourself under his head the prison, the cross, the rack, the hook, and the stake which they drive straight through a man until it protrudes from his throat. Think of human limbs torn apart by chariots driven in opposite directions, of the terrible shirt smeared and interwoven with inflammable materials, and of all the other contrivances devised by cruelty, in addition to those which I have mentioned!”
Epistulae Morales, Epistle 14, “On the Reasons for Withdrawing from the World.”

That has nothing to do with Christ or Christianity, much less deliver eyewitness testimony of the acts ascribed to Jesus.

Quote:

HIEROCLES

Quote:

: (AD 284-305)
A quote by Eusebius preserves some of the text of this lost work of Hierocles, Philalethes or Lover of Truth. In this quote, Hierocles condemns Peter and Paul as sorcerers. Again, their miracles could not be denied, rather they claimed that they used sorcery.
“And this point is also worth noticing, that whereas the tales of Jesus have been vamped up by Peter and Paul and a few others of the kind,–men who were liars and devoid of education and wizards.”
Eusebius, The Treatise of Eusebius, ch. 2.

ZOMG Wizards!! People used to believe in dragons and unicorns and spells of all sorts. How is this proof of anything?

Quote:

ANTONIUS PIUS:

Quote:

(86 AD to 161 AD)[/SIZE][/FONT]
A letter from the Roman Emperor Antoninus Pius to the general assembly in Asia Minor. This letter says that the officials in Aisa Minor were getting upset at the Christians in their province, and that no changes are to be made in Antoninus’ method of dealing with them.
“The Emperor Caesar Titus AElius Adrianus Antoninus Augustus Pius, Supreme Pontiff, in the fifteenth year of his tribuneship, Consul for the third time, Father of the fatherland, to the Common Assembly of Asia, greeting: I should have thought that the gods themselves would see to it that such offenders should not escape.
For if they had the power, they themselves would much rather punish those who refuse to worship them; but it is you who bring trouble on these persons, and accuse as the opinion of atheists that which they hold, and lay to their charge certain other things which we are unable to prove.
But it would be advantageous to them that they should be thought to die for that of which they are accused, and they conquer you by being lavish of their lives rather than yield that obedience which you require of them. And regarding the earthquakes which have already happened and are now occurring, it is not seemly that you remind us of them, losing heart whenever they occur, and thus set your conduct in contrast with that of these men; for they have much greater confidence towards God than you yourselves have.
And you, indeed, seem at such times to ignore the gods, and you neglect the temples, and make no recognition of the worship of God. And hence you are jealous of those who do serve Him, and persecute them to the death.
Concerning such persons, some others also of the governors of provinces wrote to my most divine father; to whom he replied that they should not at all disturb such persons, unless they were found to be attempting anything against the Roman government. And to myself many have sent intimations regarding such persons, to whom I also replied in pursuance of my father’s judgment.
But if any one has a matter to bring against any person of this class, merely as such a person, let the accused be acquitted of the charge, even though he should be found to be such an one; but let the accuser he amenable to justice.”
Justin Martyr, The First Apology, ch. 70

Yet again, no evidence, no eyewitness testimonies.

Innula Zenovka · 06-18-2012, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

If you commit a crime in your country and stand before the judge is that what you would tell him? Take the good with the bad? What will the judge say back to you?

Oh, I can help you there.

In my country, England, the defence barrister in the sentencing hearing puts forward the various mitigating features of the offence (that is, reasons -- if reasons there be -- why it is not the most serious example of its type), and the defendant's personal mitigation, if any (youth and inexperience, previous good character, remorse, conduct after the offence and so on). The judge will also usually have the benefit of a detailed pre-sentence report about the offender and his personal circumstances and attitudes, which draws attention to both his good and bad features.

The judge is required by law to take all this into account, in the interests of justice, when determining the sentence, and will probably say, in passing sentence, something like "taking into account all the factors surrounding your offence, and all that I have heard and read about you, the minimum sentence I can pass, consistent with the interests of justice, is...".

And an important factor in almost all sentencing is, as well as retribution and deterrence, rehabilitation.

What do judges say where you are?

Imnotgoing Sideways · 06-18-2012, 03:28 PM

Judge Dredd - I AM THE LAW - YouTube

=^-^=

View Poll Results: DO YOU PLACE YOUR FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, BELIEVING THAT HE DIED AND ROSE AGAIN?
YES	13	8.50%
NO	89	58.17%
I ALREADY PRAYED/ACCETED JESUS IN MY HEART BEFORE	11	7.19%
OTHER	40	26.14%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll

06-18-2012, 02:38 PM	#593 (permalink)
FlipperPA Peregrine Evil Incarnate! Recursion is beautiful! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 7,085 My Mood: SL Join Date: 2003-11-14 Business: Peregrine Salon	I AM EVIL HOMER! __________________ Peregrine Salon: Flip & Jenn's thang.

06-18-2012, 02:52 PM	#596 (permalink)
Joy Honey distracted hey a penny! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: OR coast Posts: 1,815 My Mood: SL Join Date: 6/17/05 Business: Broken Kitty	So, I was just thinking... God is a Jealous god. Jealousy (or envy) is one of the seven deadly sins. What gives there? Also, if God is the only god, what's up with the jealousy? Tapatalk. I guess it makes the forum easier to read on a phone... __________________ It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a bad example "Mom, why is your eye twitching?" -my 7 yr old son

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06-18-2012, 02:10 PM	#580 (permalink)
Imnotgoing Sideways - Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Darkly Cute :: Ferguson Posts: 6,927 My Mood: SL Join Date: November, 2007 Business: Darkly Cute Client: NOT the same one I used yesterday... (<.<)	Oh, and snakes still don't talk. (^_^)

06-18-2012, 02:20 PM	#588 (permalink)
Kaimi Kyomoon Persistent Participant Kaw-EE-mee Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Earth, Early 21st century Posts: 2,668 My Mood: Business: Kaimi's	I do believe in a divine parent. And yet I feel so much more in common with the atheists posting on this thread than with the OP. I was raised agnostic ("maybe there is/are god/gods but we haven't seen any evidence"). It seemed impossible to make myself suddenly start believing even though I could see how that might be comforting. I have always had a mind and a conscience and I figured if I was created by a god then that god would guide me via my mind and conscience. I always tried to do the right thing according to them. Then when I was in my late thirties I began reading "how to live" lessons, written in the early 20th century by a Swami from India. I was hoping for a way to feel more comfortable in my skin and in the universe. A main part of the lessons was meditation techniques. I started practicing them. Almost immediately I began to feel a loving presence. No one was more surprised than I. So I joined that church and nothing in it's teachings has ever contradicted itself or called for a suspension-of-disbelief type leap of faith. I realize it might be nothing more than self-hypnosis, but it works for me. We believe in re-incarnation which kind of takes the pressure off me to achieve kind of big success in this life. We don't proselytize. We believe everyone is on their own best path towards conscious realization of God.

06-18-2012, 02:39 PM	#594 (permalink)
Sonja Aeghin Account Closed so much for status Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sweet Home ______ Posts: 2,959 My Mood: Popup Killer Champion! SL Join Date: 2/8/2008 Client: Phoenix, Exodus Blog Entries: 5	Regardless of all that has happened, we must concede one fact to the OP, as we're almost to page 25:

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