Beebo Brink

All too often the focus of discussion on contentious SLU threads is the ways in which we differ, instead of the many more ways in which we are alike. So to redress the balance in at least one post (the thread itself is out of my hands), I'd like to point out how little my atheism separates me from the theists I know personally.

For starters, the majority of my friends are Christians or Jews who believe in a more or less conventional god; I do not. Despite this, we share an overwhelming portion of our values:

* We all believe in being kind, generous and compassionate in our dealings with other people. We see failures to act in that way as something we need to work harder to avoid.

* We do our best to respect other people, to have an open mind to cultures and perspectives that are not our own, yet do not abandon our own principles in the face of those differences, not all of which are acceptable to us.

* We value honesty, hard work, and and a job well done.

* We believe the most vulnerable among us -- in our family and in our community -- should be cared for: animals, children, the elderly, the infirm.

* We all believe that education is essential to our well-being and we all believe in the value of science.

The only way in which we don't agree is that they turn to their own god for solace or spiritual strength and I do not. On the few ocasions in which that difference is discussed, it's been one of those "Oh really?" bits of personal information that aren't nearly as pertinent to our friendship as whether we own pets.

My friends are not exceptional in this regard. I don't hang out in rarefied circles of society. These are ordinary religious Americans who share more in common with me, an atheist, than they do with the right-wing fundamentalists who take the Bible literally and who are shouting their hate on every media channel and political platform to which they have been given access.

The divide I see on a daily basis is not theist vs. atheist, but fundamentalist vs. everyone else. Their dogma, their authoritarianism will roll over everyone, not just atheists. If they turn our society into the Handmaiden's Tale, we will all suffer to the same degree, regardless of our beliefs.

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Shiloh Lyric

This is all very true. As a Christian, I have no time for fundamentalists. There is a difference, sometimes, between being "religious" and being a follower of Christ.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Beebo Brink DO NOT LINK THE CLUMP!!!

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Cindy Claveau

All great points, Beebo. Once again, though I struggle to separate my local/regional experiences from the larger (and probably more common) experience:

By and large, yes, but it's pretty common for me to see thinly-veiled anti-Muslim sentiments around here. Note the state of Kansas' recent passage of Bill 2087 outlawing the use of "foreign law, legal code, or system" that does not "protect the same fundamental rights, liberties, rights, and privileges granted under the United States and Kansas constitutions."

On the surface, a reasonable, though unnecessary, proposition. But it's actually a sham aimed directly at Sharia law. In other words, they're letting their stealth racism show.

As long as my neighbors and family don't feel they're paying taxes to support a "welfare state". You know, socialism?

Certain regions of Kansas - not mine - are clamoring to "teach the controversy" over Evolution. Even though there isn't really a controversy. And I think more of my acquaintances and family poo-poo climate change than accept it.

On the news last night, they covered the one-year anniversary of the Reading, KS tornado which wiped out that tiny village around the same time as the massive storm that hit Joplin MO. The preacher giving the memorial service praised God for "destroying Reading to give us the chance to come together to rebuild".

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Beebo Brink

Geography probably does play a role in this. I grew up in Texas, but the Austin part of Texas is not representative of the state. For many yeaars I lived in New York City, and even when I lived in upstate New York (which is far more rural and conservative), I was more closely associated with the university/academic community in my town. And now I live in West Virginia, but the eastern part of the state that is increasingly a bedroom community for Washington DC.

Overwhelmingly, my RL friends are of an East coast mindset rather than Southern. It's like a different country.

But my larger point is that fundamentalism, or sometimes even just an unlikable personality, is more of a difference between me and someone else than whether or not we believe in the Christian god.

Aliselia Aeon

QFT

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Baltha

Sadly, I share more of Cindy's experiences than yours Beebo. Although I'm sure most people of faith are good, caring folk who just happen to believe in something I don't, I see the other side here in the south. Most of the people I know here seem like fairly moderate Christians who are incredibly caring, generous and have been welcoming to me as a foreigner. If the conversation turns towards foreigners who aren't from jolly old England, gays, welfare or President Obama however, the hatred and fear is tangible. None of this of course is limited to believers, but there always seems to be a verse ready to justify their prejudices which to me shows how successful the fundamentals have been in infiltrating every aspect of life here.
I do agree that in other parts of the country, and on boards like this, the sneering, dismissive attitudes of some non believers towards even the most liberal believers harms what could be a valuable alliance against the fundamentalists.

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Ayu Sura

The way I see it, we can only hope that the Internet bridging such regional separations will eventually help lessen this kind of "us vs. them" type of thinking. Heck I had a very civil discussion with a WoW guildie of mine from NC who, as it turns out, firmly believes that homosexuality is a sin because the Bible says it is.

Thing is, aside from this wrong-headed ignorant type of thinking, he's a good guy, doesn't behave like a douchebag to people who disagree. So he's still a friend. Because I think it's better to (hopefully) be a friend that can help them ask right questions than it is to create even more walls and barriers and reinforce the separation between "those gay enablers" and them.

It kind of pisses me off, this ... thing. I'm, like, the lousiest so-called Christian - I don't go to Church, I vaguely question the whole story, but I feel compelled to stand up and talk about how Jesus' life was NOT about castigation but about love and acceptance. WTF, me. I thought I'd left all that Church camp stuff behind a long time ago.

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Void

Most people I tend to talk with assume I'm an atheist, simply because I discuss strongly in the terms of logic, and never really address faith in discussion. a few who are close know a little better*... although they tend to peg me as some form of wiccan or related neo-pagan; maybe because I'm familiar with those and not adverse. In daily life, even the local mormons and I get along just fine on most everything... we're all affected by the same things: crap economy, stupid politicians, and intrusive laws.

*I'm either deeply religious, or lapsed, depending on your point of view. personally I consider myself the former.

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Isabeau Imako

I know that there may be regional differences and experiences, but when I think of fundies, the first things I associate with them are violence, intolerance, stupidity and/or crazy, not religion or belief in a god.

I'm an atheist, but I don't have any issue with religion or faith, only with those who promote violence and intolerance. One does not need to be religious to show these 'qualities'.


ETA: What I mean is, I wish people would stick to issues and laws, instead of whether there is a god or not.