Cindy Claveau

Dan Savage Speech Controversy: 'It Gets Better' Creator Offends Christian Students

Personally, I wish he had said that to adult journalists. I'm not so sure they were as appropriate to high school students, even if they are supposed to aspire to journalism careers.

As it happens, the news media (and anti-gay groups) are zeroing in on how he offended some kids rather than the message he was delivering. So, once again, the media is creating its own controversy over and beyond what Savage himself created.

Video: Christian students walk out as Dan Savage attacks the Bible - PinkNews.co.uk

If you watch the video, at least one of the students started walking out BEFORE he said "we can ignore the bullshit". All he said at that point was that some people use the bible to justify homophobia.


So how much of this was Savage's fault and how much is an over-reaction to some hurt feelings among a few teens? Looks to me like most of the audience stayed for his entire speech and even applauded.

__________________
"As long as there’s one person on earth who remembers you, it isn’t over." - Oscar Hammerstein

Gabriell Anatra

"We can learn to ignore the bull---t in the Bible about gay people."

If that is so deeply offensive as to inspire someone to walk out crying then they are probably roadkill on the streets of life anyway.

I get more offensive statements on a more or less constant basis. Most everyone I know does, for that matter.

They need to grow a spine.

Richie Waves

They went with the full intention of being offended. twits. If their fathers spent less time being a republican arsehole and more time being a father they wouldn't be the twisted little fucks they are now.

Cindy Claveau

It seems to me they got butthurt over the words "bullshit" and "bible" being used in the same sentence and failed to parse what he meant.

Of course, it could be that some of them believe there is no bullshit in the Bible at all. Those people are the future of the evangelical movement.

Jopsy Pendragon

The pansy-assed comment was dead on and directed at people who can't take what they dish out.

Judge not, lest ye be judged and all that. Condemn others? Expect them to condemn you right back.

Amity Slade

If you want to actually communicate with Christians about these issues, you do it in a way that respects their holy book. He went on a three minute rant about how the Bible justifies all sorts of social evils. It was his intent not to have a serious discussion, but to offend the Christians in the group and he got what he wanted. Clearly, he thinks the best way to reduce homophobia is by fighting a culture war.

Joshua Nightshade

He held a three minute discussion covering the myriad hypocrisies in the Bible that Christians ignore daily and questioned why, then, they insist on pointing to the one line complaining about homosexuality like they have no choice in the matter.

Only the most thin-skinned Christian would consider that a "culture war."

__________________

Beebo Brink

If the point of the "It Gets Better" campaign is to help teens teetering on the edge of suicide, I fail to see how this rant did anything other than make their situation worse. Some of the Chritians in that audience are probably gay, but they're not going to be dragged over the line of self-acceptance by being told their beliefs are bullshit. Yes, they are bullshit, but a slap in the face isn't going to open their ears.

There is a time and place for righteous indignation and rage in activism -- and god knows I've been there -- but this particular venue required a different touch. I was deeply involved with my college gay speakers bureau in both undergraduate and graduate school; confrontation was not the tactic I ever used when trying to bridge the gap of understanding. This doesn't mean you have to be wishy-washy and subservient; it does mean that you try to touch people's humanity and show them a perspective they've never considered before.

__________________
Noob: "okay.... im in a house with cages and people in gags and the door just locked and i cant get out :c"

Cindy Claveau

He's also told how he has been physically beaten in the past for his homosexuality. I cannot blame him for not feeling charitable.

Sometimes, challenging people's beliefs may offend but it's a sure thing that playing footsie with fundamentalists won't make them think. I'm not sure anything can cause that to happen (it's more of an individual internal, mental metamorphosis), but if someone criticizing your special book makes you cry you really DO need to rethink things.

Joshua Nightshade

Of the many things Dan Savage has said over the years that I thought inappropriate and/or offensive, I'm afraid I can't rank this one particularly high.

Cindy Claveau

No question, Beebo. I agree, but at the same time I question why anyone would schedule a known activist who has been outspoken and controversial in the past (far more than this speech), and expect him to be appropriate for high school kids.

These weren't undergrads or graduate students. They were high schoolers. Why is all the controversy over his words (taken out of context) and not the thought process of the organizers?

The answer to that one lies in the list of people making it a big deal - Fox News, for starters.

Beebo Brink

Speaking engagements with the public -- especially in a high school setting -- are not the place to work out your personal resentments, no matter how valid they may be.

Describing his experiences about being beaten, asking how this in keeping with the beliefs people hold about fairness and compassion, would go a long way to making even thin-skinned butt-hurt prone fundamentalists think twice about their actions.

Beebo Brink

I haven't a clue who this guy is, so I'm just judging this incident as described. Not an end-of-the-world scenario by any means, but hardly a success story either.

Amity Slade

You do not challenge someone's beliefs or have a serious discussion with them by disrespecting them. You can only have serious dialog with some sort of mutual respect. Or at least trying to pretend there is some respect. Without it, there are just pointless fights.

It upsets me when people attack that which I hold dear, and telling me how pathetic or stupid I am for it doesn't really change things.

Cindy Claveau

That's how you and I would probably handle it. But we're talking about the man who licked doorknobs when he had the flu, as a way of sabotaging Republican Gary Bauer's office. He claims he licked everything - staplers, phones, keyboards. I sense a man motivated by extreme rage. Not someone who ought to be a spokesman against anti-gay bullying.

Joshua Nightshade

Much like when I encounter Gorean slavegirls on leashes being driven by their "Masters," I'm not obligated to participate in anyone else's roleplay without my consent.

Joshua Nightshade

Ah, but that's only if you take the anti-gay bullying initiative in the context of "let's all hold hands and sing and the world can be a better place." Dan Savage is an activist from the ACT UP era when drag queens stormed press conferences and demanded that politicians provide AIDS funding when Regan was telling the world that it was just a disease for homosexuals. He's never been shy about wanting to fight back, and while I often dislike a lot of things he says I certainly can't fault him for wanting to spit in the face of straight people saying that we'd get rights if only we were meek and polite when we asked.

Cindy Claveau

I refuse to feign respect for ideologies I do not respect. But that's different from being civil.

What's happened here is instructive: by using the words "bullshit" and "bible" in the same sentence, his real message is being overlooked for the inflammatory parts.

What he was saying in the video was that it makes no sense to hold up the parts of Leviticus that agree with someone's homophobia while ignoring the parts that call for animal sacrifices, punishing men who have sex with menstruating women, killing blasphemers and other nonsense.

That's actually a valid, thought-provoking point but it's buried now under the "bullshit" red flag.

Cindy Claveau

I think that's kind of what I've been saying

Joshua Nightshade

I think the gay rights movement needs a bit more extreme rage. But my problem with Dan Savage has always been that he's much too Entitled White Male.

Sally Rosebud

When my cousin can tell everyone in our family that she is gay, then I'll start worrying about Christians being offended by somebody challenging their story book beliefs.

Mr Twine

I kinda suspect a good number of people had walked out, even if the word "bullshit" had been replaced with... oh I don't know, "nonsense", "silly things", "balderdash"...

Joshua Nightshade

It was like five or six people out of three thousand who walked out.

Cindy Claveau

Close. I didn't count but in the video, there might have been 20-ish or so.

Nobody talked much about the kids who stayed and applauded.

Roxanne Blue

As someone who campaigns against hate speech and bullying, he might come across as less of a hypocrite if he avoided using such terms himself.

Having been called a "pansy" more than once in my life by homophobes, I'm pretty sure it was not a term of endearment.

__________________
"I see you and acknowledge that you're in my vicinity. You are not a threat, so I won't kill you."

"Good. Same here." - Beebo Brink.