Joshua Nightshade

See, I found that significantly more offensive and inappropriate, personally.

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Seyla Warden

Uh, well.

It does?

I'm not seeing how that's offensive, it's basically just a fact.

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Gabriell Anatra

And this is why what he did was self-defeating.

Not that it was wrong, just that it wasn't spun and sugar-coated enough to placate those who look for 'issues' to justify their own issues.

Still, he's probably more charitable than I am.

Seyla Warden

It shouldn't have to be 'spun' and 'sugar-coated' to begin with.

If you're at the point where you need to do that not to simply offend someone for stating a truth, you may as well save yourself the effort of trying.

Amity Slade

I don't get into theological discussions on these forums because they usually wind down to people telling me how stupid and evil I am for being a Christian.

Joshua Nightshade

^ This never happens.

Seyla Warden

I thought we were talking about the Bible?

The Bible, the Church (whichever one we happen to be talking about at the time), and the People are three very, very different things.

Being Christian doesn't make you stupid or evil, but it also doesn't mean that the Bible doesn't justify abhorrent social practices.

Gabriell Anatra

Yes, I do find it interesting that those who spent so much of the 80's and 90's moaning about the rest of us being 'hypersensitive' and 'whiny' have now made it such an issue.

I would find it ironic if I hadn't seen it coming back then. They've always been that way. This is just more projection.

Misty Harley

am I missing something? I had to watch that video twice and I didn't see a single kid crying. Or really all that upset once you remove the kids who were smiling as they walked out and two girls chatting with each other.

one left first, then a bunch followed then a few stragglers. Almost as if it were planned.

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Seyla Warden

I want to hit 'agree' but I was born in '80 so I didn't really notice it while I was growing up (yay sheltered lower-middle-class white upbringing) so it wouldn't feel right.

But yeah, I agree.

Seyla Warden

I can't think of a single instance of anyone on this board being attacked personally because of their religious beliefs. The beliefs themselves, yes; the person holding those beliefs? Not once.

PRS can get contentious, but really in order for it to get personal you need a special kind of crazy like the perpster.

Argent Stonecutter

Of course there's bullshit in the bible:

"The hand of the LORD will rest on this mountain; but Moab will be trampled in their land as straw is trampled down in the manure." - Isaiah 25:9-11

"It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out. “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”" - Luke 14:34-35

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Argent Stonecutter -- Skyhook Station -- Coonspiracy Store

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."


The previous is a cybernetic datum published - in direct contravention of DoD Regulation #229RR3X3 - as being conducive to the physical, psychological and/or social well-being of the population.

Richie Waves

You're a true victim of your own success.

Jahar Aabye

I agree with what he said, and I've definitely said far worse things about how Evangelical Christianity has interpreted the Bible, pointing out the inevitable mistakes in trying to interpret literary works from a culture you barely understand in a language that you cannot read. There are a lot of laws in Leviticus, half of them have been completely inapplicable since the fall of the Second Temple in 70 CE since they involve Temple observance, and the rest are either very difficult to apply to modern society, or basic commonsense stuff along the lines of "if your ox kills your neighbors ass, you need to buy him a new one". And then you have the "If a man lies with another man as he lies with a woman, he shall be put to death". I'd say that it's as difficult to reconcile that with modern life as the law requiring that a child who slaps his parent be stoned to death.

The problem, though, is that it is likely to be almost impossible to convince Evangelical Christians that their beliefs are wrong or misguided. After all, what is the likelihood that an Evangelical could convince you to convert to Christianity? For some people, they might, but most people's religious beliefs or inability to believe are not likely to change. I'm not sure that challenging their religious beliefs is likely to result in change, but I'll admit that I've no clue of what tactic would be effective. I also know that I really have no business telling Savage not to be angry after what he's experienced, and I realize that suggesting that he be nicer might be every bit as ignorant as telling Black people to get over segregation.

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He pulled a Captain Ahab and Jaharpwn'ed her. - Trout

Asher Bertrand

There's no communicating with people who let a book do the thinking for them. Tiptoeing around the pearls they clutch only enables them. Sometimes, shocking people out of their stupor is the only way.

Also, never underestimate the power of one person speaking their truth.

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Amity Slade

Well then, there should be no criticism of the students who walked out. Savage wanted to offend and shock him, he did, they made their response. He wanted to express himself rather than communicating; they decided to express themselves rather than communicating; they are as entitled to do it as he is.

I have never said Savage had some duty to show any respect to anyone. But when he aims to show disrespect to someone, offending them is a natural consequence. And it's what he wanted to do anyway. Savage is no amateur speaker, he knows what he's doing.

Joshua Nightshade

Poor babies.

Eris

If he has soft sold it, would anyone have heard what he said? Maybe they will never hear anything but what they thought he said. Maybe they will think about it and realize Bible sanctioned homophobia needs to go the way of slavery, honor killings and witch burnings.

Joshua Nightshade

Seriously; how will they cope? A stranger said something that could vaguely be confused as offensive — if you deliberately contort it and take the statement completely out of context in a concerted effort to be offended — about one of the largest religions in the world which wields political power unlike any political party ever has.

It's almost as if they've been relentlessly teased, harassed, violently attacked and murdered for being who they were. It's almost as if they have national laws on the ballots as we speak seeking to deny them rights because of their persecuted religious beliefs.

Poor martyred Christians. You really are the world's only downtrodden.

Roxanne Blue

"Dan Savage upsets Christian Students" is a dog-bites-man story.

FFS, of course he offended the Christian kids. He does that by merely existing.

Only Faux News could find that surprising or newsworthy.

"Dan Savage Upsets the LGBT Community" is the man-bites-dog story that's being completely ignored by the media.

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"I see you and acknowledge that you're in my vicinity. You are not a threat, so I won't kill you."

"Good. Same here." - Beebo Brink.

Asher Bertrand

Honestly? So what if they were offended. Maybe that will give them empathy to know what it's like when a gay person is offended when they tell them that they're destined to burn in hell. Maybe one of them will have a light bulb moment and realize that using religion to hold others down is offensive on a much more massive scale.

Cristiano

Columnist Dan Savage stands by comments on 'bulls**t in the Bible' – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

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"For my part, I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of the stars makes me dream" - Vincent Van Gogh

* my blog *

detrius

Failing to distinguish between yourself and ideas (or beliefs) however, is stupid.

And doing so intentionally just to score points in a debate could be considered evil.

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detrius

The reason why those kids were offended is because someone LIED to them and told them the bible is just fluffy bunnies and unicorns.


It's not.



"Men who have sex with other men shall be executed" is in the bible. Do you think that's bullshit or not?

Seyla Warden

I find it hard to sympathize with someone who doesn't even know what's in their own holy book. Whether they were 'lied' to or not is immaterial, they should have read it themselves.