Asher Bertrand

Which is pretty par for the course for politics.

Look, he's not my ideal, either. I didn't vote for the guy. But I don't think it's necessary to paint everyone I disagree with as some kind of satan. He has his faults, plenty of them, but that doesn't mean you have to paint him as being Machiavellian to the degree of Cheney, either. He was already in a situation where winning wasn't going to be likely and had to make a desperate move to have any kind of chance. He just made the wrong desperate move.

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Asher Bertrand

I'm now getting a crash course in how campaigns work, and it is really, REALLY a lot more complex than this. Sometimes I think candidates are often little more than figureheads for the people who do the real work behind the curtain.

Io Zeno

It depends on the personality, Asher and whether or not the candidate is a real Leader.

I mean, do you think Bill or Hillary Clinton would just give in to pressure from their people to do.... well anything they didn't really want to do?

Ariane

I lived in McCain's congressional district when he was in the House, and I still live in Arizona. What a lot of you say about McCain "selling out to extremists" in 2008 is true.

I disagree a lot with his politics, but he is generally a good man and one of GOP's most prominent leaders. He was reelected to the Senate in 2010 and will almost certainly retire in 2016. That means he is free to say what he really thinks now without fear of political backlash. Combine that with the fact that the GOP has no strong leaders and keeps sliding into unpopular issues they should stay the hell out of, and the conclusion is: The GOP needs to follow McCain's advice.

I think the "War Against Women" is a major mistake for the GOP, and the longer it goes on the less likely Moderates will side with the GOP. Some conservatives say it started with Obama's support of Planned Parenthood. If so then Obama is the greatest political mastermind ever, and the GOP walked right into the trap.

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Asher Bertrand

Actually, yes. Presidential campaigns run at a grueling pace, and I don't see how anyone would be able to keep on top of every emerging issue in the world plus keep up campaign appointments, debates, tv appearances, fundraising, etc. Say something broke in the world - war breaks out in Idontgiveafuckistan. If a candidate doesn't know anything about it, they'll grab talking points from whoever can give them. Of course, the more intelligent, educated and adept a candidate, the less they have to rely on that. But I don't find it hard to imagine there were times it came down to that for those two, either.

Io Zeno

I was actually one of those who did the research for a presidential Candidate who needed information on whothefuck knows, stat.

However, Asher, choosing a VP is a much different matter than showing up at dumbfuck wherever to give a speech or your latest tv interview. That is one of the most important decisions a candidate for President will make. I got the sense that McCain went against his gut on Palin and listened to the hype.

Casey Pelous

McCain's not the brightest Crayon in the box.

Dead last or close to it in his Annapolis class, despite having an Admiral daddy. Screwed all up a couple of times, including trashing at least one perfectly good airplane ... that he wasn't even flying. The precise details escape me but I think it was Matt Taibbi who did a whole "would be hilarious if it wasn't true" article at the time of McCain's candidacy.

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"I am not more than a lossy Human being, and think that we all are equals..." - Wasted Engineer

"Casey, I've already established that you have no idea what you are talking about." - Perphides

Io Zeno

I disagree that McCain is stupid. He isn't. Bush was stupid.

He is arrogant. He did what he wanted to do, just like Bush and his behavior in school and flying demonstrated that. He is however, no question, a War Hero, and unlike the majority of his Party right now, has a few principles he will not fold on, no matter what pressure they put on him. He will fold, though, if it's bullshit politics. He's a Party Man.

Casey Pelous

I've mentioned elsewhere that I met with McCain a couple of times. I liked him - he's hella charming in person for one thing, works those twinkly Irish eyes, and speaks refreshingly straightforward for a politician. And heck yes, a genuine hero. But Stephen Hawking he ain't.