Cristiano

This is hardly a surprise, but I am glad he finally blurted it out.

Santorum: Separation Of Church And State 'Makes Me Want To Throw Up'

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Free Xue

As I replied in another thread:

Of course, he's throwing up over a complete misreading of JFK's speech.

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Cristiano

He's not just throwing up over that - the entire idea that the Church (as in the Catholic Church apparently) should not be involved in matters of the State is what makes him want to hurl. He also said it was not the founders' vision for this country (never mind the whole fleeing state religion in England thing, apparently they just wanted the same thing here but with THEIR religion).

He is a certifiable nutjob.

Free Xue

Someone should read this to Santorum, and then ask if Ronald Reagan also makes him throw up.

Amity Slade

I like the background on specifically what about Kennedy's speech sickens Santorum.

Santorum says he doesn't believe in separation of church and state - Yahoo! News

Cristiano

Instead of rallying behind him, that alone should make him toxic to Evangelicals. He seems to only believe in his brand of Christianity, not theirs, no matter if their beliefs align or not.

Chip Midnight

I'd recommend this too:

“The first settlers in this country were emigrants from England, of the English church, just at a point of time when it was flushed with complete victory over the religious of all other persuasions.

Possessed, as they became, of the powers of making, administering and executing the laws, they showed equal intolerance in this country with their Presbyterian brethren, who had emigrated to the northern government. The poor Quakers were flying from persecution in England. They cast their eyes on these new countries as asylums of civil and religious freedom; but they found them free only for the reigning sect.

Several acts of the Virginia Assembly of 1659, 1662, and 1693, had made it penal in parents to refuse to have their children baptized; had prohibited the unlawful assembly of Quakers: had made it penal for any master of vessel to bring a Quaker into the State; had ordered those already here, and such as should come thereafter, to be imprisoned till they should abjure the country; provided a milder punishment for their first and second return, but death for their third; had inhibited all persons from suffering their meetings in or near their houses; entertaining them individually, or disposing of books which supported their tenets.

If no execution took place here, as did in New England, it was not owing to the moderation of the church, or spirit of the legislature, as may be inferred from the law itself; but to historical circumstance which have not been handed down to us.

The present state of our laws on the subject of religion is this: The convention of May 1776, in their declaration of rights, declare it to be a truth in natural right, that the exercise of religion should be free."

Notes On Virginia —Thomas Jefferson

bronxelf

I really, really hope so. I've been waiting for *THAT* moment for months.

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Cristiano

Those poor Talibangelicals are stuck between a Catholic that hates them and a Mormon who they hate. War on Christianity indeed!

Chip Midnight

The war is against secularism.

Cristiano

Oh I know, but it is funny that even amongst themselves, they are fighting for who is the real Christian. Kind of The Real Christians of Orange County.

Kamilah Hauptmann

So Rick is on the record as standing firmly against the jeering this man took while giving a prayer?

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Jolene Benoir

I already knew he was unfit to be a dogcatcher, let alone POTUS, but this seals the deal.

Beebo Brink

How can one even run for president when you don't support the U.S Constitution?

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Chip Midnight

You do the same thing he does with the bible: pretend it says what you want it to no matter how obviously it doesn't.

Eunoli Rain

I have to disagree with you on this one. All we demand of our presidents is that they do their duty in supporting the Constitution once elected. They can take a stance that supports amendments needed for the good of the country. An example of this might be an amendment to regulate political money and prevent members of Congress from using their positions for financial gain. I'm not sure anything short of a Constitutional Amendment will work to fix the system, any longer.

That said, seperation of Church and State isn't just a matter of law, its a founding principal of the United States. He might as well be stating that life and liberty make him ill.

Maggiedoll Alter

I don't know. As long as he keeps saying "Christian" I don't think they'll challenge it. He's already said that he doesn't believe that Protestants are really Christian.

It's just like everything else the right-wingers do. They're so focused on telling everybody that they're the "true XYZ" that they don't' stop to remember that there are a zillion other people who aren't exactly like themselves running around saying that they're the "true XYZ" too.
They consider themselves the exception to every rule. They're certain that if "their people" only get in power, they'll stop "giving handouts to the unworthy" and will start helping them instead. Nevermind that they all believe that everybody else is unworthy.

As long as Santorum is saying "Christian" they'll be too afraid to challenge it. If they do, he'll put them on the same level as Obama, as a "fake" Christian who isn't exactly the same as he is.
Again.. nevermind that he doesn't give a rat's ass what even the Catholic Church thinks, he ignores Church teaching whenever it's inconvenient. (See: Healthcare, Welfare, etc.)

Maggiedoll Alter

When somebody is advocating to abolish separation of church and state, they're already saying that liberty makes them ill.

Given the general progression of events when the Church has significant political and legal power, I'd say that it's the same deal with "life."

The guy belongs in 15th century Spain.

Tigger

Actually I wonder if having an official state sponsored church could help the US. We have one here in the UK and we really don't have any of the religious mania in our politics or day to day lives. At least, we don't have it turned all the way up to 11 like you do in the US.

Eunoli Rain

No offense, Tigger - but we kind of fled y'all to get away from that. Our country was literally founded on the principal of seperation of Church and State. I doubt you could find ten non-fundamentalists in the entire country that would think an official church would be a good idea.

jessica.

Eunoli Rain

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I totally didn't expect that...

Circle Widdershins

No one ever does.

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infiniview Merit

It seems to me that all these extreme right wing positions are manifesting in response to their own fears. It was predicted long ago that the internet would cause vast change in the ways that people work, live and play socialize. Another thing that was predicted was how various minds from all over the globe would make connections with other like minded people that are connected because of that like mindedness. And in many cases that is the only reason for the connection. Gone are the days when people had to look similar or have similar beliefs national loyalties or social groups before their opinion was taken seriously. Now agreement is taking place regardless with the only importance being the agreement on the points in question. Thus now there is a massive focal tool present and lingering on the net ready to apply massive pressure on anyone or anything that deserves it's attention. This intrinsic power of the internet lies in it's ability to harness and focus the attention of millions of people on a single subject if it is worthy. From the Arab Spring to BOA debit card fees to celeb apologies this dynamic is already becoming a normalized part of the fabric of social expectations. Not just in one country but across the entire world. Religions have always counted on separation, distance and division and uncertainty. Just as ancient monks resisted the printing press for the dangers it posed to the religions themselves, (they clearly underestimated it's resilience). What fears are today's religions having in response to the giant vanity / reality mirror that the internet represents. I suspect that Rick thinks that alot of people are really digging his actual beliefs. But somehow it seems to me that people are egging him on to see how far he will go. By this point this November's election should be epic. And I think that could have long lasting ramifications for the GOP, and whether it was a wise decision to mix religion with politics.

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Hitomi Tiponi

Santorum is not all bad - thanks to him I have now learnt a new word - antithetical.