Cindy Claveau

Well guess what, Einstein? That's all any of us do.

Except most of us actually say something other than your obnoxious "/me" snickers - all that does is brand you as an arrogant dick who doesn't want to spend the energy putting in their .02.

Really, that's the only way a discussion can happen: an exchange of opinion. Emotes don't contribute to the discussion whether they're silly forum buttons or assinine "/me chuckles".

So again: if you're not contributing to the discussion, what the hell are you doing?

__________________
"As long as there’s one person on earth who remembers you, it isn’t over." - Oscar Hammerstein

Baltha

If it looks like a troll and smells like a troll.......

Baltha

...then it's a troll

Mr. B

You back? (obviously cannot follow MY rules)


The thread (I think) you are talking about was asher deciding I am on the payroll of Big Oil? Sorry if I think that is silly. Anyone who has read forums (notably this one) for more than 5 minutes knows that was BS on his part and a BS on your part to carry it to a new thread. It is no secret that I am not a "liberal" - duhhh.

Having read these forums for years I know much more about all of you than you know of me. I really don't give a shit if some of you "label" me, frankly I expected nothing else.

If you (or anyone else) cannot deal with opinions as expressed and as they come up, and need to broadly label those you disagree with - assigning to them extreme opinions they have never expressed - that is a significant personal problem.

Beyond that we are back to where this started. Try dealing with what people actually say rather than what you want them to say to satisfy some agenda. Don't like me? Cool, I am down with that - at least be honest enough to dislike me for what I actually DO say rather than having to base it on fabrications.

Shiloh Lyric

Tolerant much?

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beebo Brink DO NOT LINK THE CLUMP!!!

"There is no problem so large that it can't be solved by brute force and ignorance."
~Siggy Romulus (11/13/12)


http://www.flickr.com/photos/shilohlyric/
http://shilohlyric.wordpress.com/

Tracer Graves

And this is back to the fundamental ignorance of your postings. The "rules" I posted are true regardless of whether I want them to be. If you say you aren't a dyed in the wool right-winger, then you should be expected to support that assertion with evidence or face the consequence of people not believing you.

When you fail to support your argument, you are effectively conceding. You are forfeiting the game, so to speak. You can deny all you want, but that's just being contradictory, not making an argument. That's not MY rule. That's the way things work. If it works another way, please do enlighten us with your transcendental wisdom.

The discussion was whether you were "on the same team" as the far right. I don't remember discussion of Big Oil surrounding it, but I imagine someone could tangent from that to a discussion of your political affiliations. You ARE a far right conservative (as in, not a moderate) and you have yet to demonstrate anything different.

Your stated positions are pretty much right in line with Beck/Rush/Hannity regardless of whether you watch or listen to them. That is inconsequential to me. The point is that you don't really offer anything we haven't already heard and rejected.

You're the one decided to post the sarcastic comment about religiously following a specific media figure. It's a running theme. The question I proposed was whether you disagreed with any of their positions. If you are simply stating that you are a conservative that agrees pretty much down the line with all the right wing pundits, then I'm certainly not going argue.

I don't care that you are a conservative as much as I care about the fact that you seemed to be trying to distance yourself from what you are.

You and Perphie have yet to offer an opinion that I can't "deal with". I've long since accepted that there are complete and utter political shitbags out there.

Also, I just loooooooove how you people cry about not being able to express your opinion without being attacked when that's all we're doing. Expressing our opinion about your statements. You are more than free to post stupid bullshit to your heart's content, but I am equally free to tell you how utterly incompetent you are.

Which extreme positions that you never expressed have I assigned to you? I mean, it's pretty clear that you're not exactly moderate in your right wing leanings, so it's not exactly unfair to assume that goes across the board without you offering any evidence to counter that assumption. Especially when you've been given REPEATED chances by everyone here to do so.

I never based anything on a fabrication about you. I simply said your silence means that you are conceding the argument I brought up. You don't like it, tough shit.

__________________

Eunoli Rain

Please stop feeding it. This used to be an interesting topic.

Bard Jameson

Good point - so, let me play devil's advocate here and ask a question of the larger group that I asked of Perph but s/he does not seem willing to answer:

Can anyone make the case that the original establishment clause of the First Amendment does NOT require what has been come to be known as a "separation of church and state".

I put the latter into quotes because, while Jefferson's use of the phrase was not a legally binding definition, it has been quoted in some SCOTUS rulings and used as a general definition for what we are saying the establishment clause...um...establishes.

So - take whatever side you wish - absent of SCOTUS rulings, is the establishment clause sufficient unto itself to ...um...establish that separation, or are there mitigating factors that could be called "exceptions"?

Anybody? Bueller?

__________________
--

Baratia Island - Come Enjoy Your Second Life with Us!

Home to Atia Creations Skins, Makeup and More - Come see what The New Girl is making

Check our Event Calendar and come join the fun!

Wrong Weatherwax

Newp, because that view isn't just backed up by Jefferson, it was also widely heralded by Madison as well.

Madison was perhaps more rigorous in the separation than even Jefferson, cautious that any benefit derived from government and passed on to the Church would be robbing the people of the United States, his own version of a slippery-slope.

__________________
An education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on. -Terry Pratchett

Mr. B

In an earlier post you claimed I stated positions I did not back up in this thread. When asked to provide them – you dropped the ball.

Expanding and adding words while making the same argument that proves the "theory" you are trying to deny is just odd.

You continually claim that not denying something proves it so. Your earlier failed attempt to bolster that fantasy by claiming it is a legal principle of the US criminal court was utter nonsense.

Using the logic nail you keep hammering;
If you were asked “are you still beating your wife?” – and you provided no evidence to the contrary then you should be imprisoned for beating your wife. In he face of no denial - there can only be the extreme - there is no other answer.

(Sadly in this forum, since I am not in the clique, by using that example I have to state that by using that example I am not suggesting you actually have ever, do, or ever would beat your wife).

Tracer Graves

You're a fucking liar, and not even a good one. That's not even close to the way it went down and you've been the one twisting your story around. My point/question has remained the same the whole time. I've asked you to name some positions you don't lean to the right on. Positions that are in disagreement with the right wing pundit talking points that they all share. Your whole fucking crowd is using newsspeak and yellow journalistic techniques. You tell a lie often enough, it becomes true, amirite? And you're using the same lines, same lies.

You not being in the "clique" has nothing to do with it. You've been soundly rejected for being a shitty arguer, an troll, a liar and not nearly as bright as you congratulate yourself for being. You're disingenuous, arrogant, and stupid. You can't support your arguments, so you just toss back any criticism you get back on us. Just like you couldn't get away with the idea that you're not on the conservative team.

You make an argument, support it. Otherwise, prepare to face questions and criticism and if you don't want to be bothered to do that, then don't complain when you get your ass reamed.

Bard Jameson

An interesting aspect to what you post - Jefferson and Madison were very opposite in their positions about American law and politics, were they not? At least, that is what I remember from my reading from many years ago. If I remember that aspect correctly, what we are saying is that two men who were opposed toward each other in many aspects of American law and principle were very much in agreement on this issue.

If I am right in that, then I cannot help but wonder why we, as a people, hold positions on this issue so very apart today when the FOUNDERS - the ones often cited as the definers of our republic- could come to such a general agreement.

Is it that we know more today, and can see the issue more clearly than they? Or is it that our political divisions have become more entrenched over the centuries?

Or something in-between?

Tracer Graves

No, it's because the religious right has been gaining influence in our government since the Red Scare. Religious parents have been sold a revisionist history that places Good Christians in the role of the heroes of our countries founding, with foreigners and communists playing the villains. That mythos seems to be taught along-side with Christian fundamentalism these days.

I know that's what happened in my family. We were good conservative Christians that simply wanted to restore Christianity to it's rightful place. The days when the founding fathers stood around and said the Pledge of Allegiance with the "Under God" in it's proper place! (lol)

It seriously took me until college to find out that our original national motto was "E Pluribus Unum", not "In God We Trust" and that the Pledge of Allegiance wasn't written until the late 1800's and that the "Under God" line wasn't added until the McCarthy Era. And I was not alone in that. I know that some of my old Christian Friends (and Family) STILL don't know that.

The Key Composers of our Country's government were a bunch of post-Enlightenment Deists, not fundamentalist Christians. Right now, I think that the religious right is attempting to grab the wheel and turn off into a ditch of a fabled history that never happened. And that demographic is about 25% of our nation's population. They are pulling the GOP, the Congress, the President and our country to the right. And if it wasn't for the establishment clause, it'd be worse.

Mocksoup Graves

Tracer's mom calls the St.Louis Post Dispatch "The Communist Times" with a straight face. She called Larry Rice a communist for helping the homeless and wanting them to be fed.

She's not some backwoods hillbilly. She lives in a suburban subdivision. She drives a nice car, she works as an administrative assistant for a large company. She went to college, briefly.

And yet, she's absolutely insane. It's high-functioning society-sanctioned paranoid schizophrenia. She believes that God literally speaks to her. She thinks I can cast spells on people, and that I am teaching my kids sorcery. Yet, on the outside...she looks 'normal'.

We have just drawn up a legal document that gives 5 people legal guardianship should something happen to either Tracer or me. In order of importance. No one on Tracer's side of the family is on that list, at all.

Wrong Weatherwax

That would be correct at least insofar as Jefferson and Madison's views on the structure of government. While Jefferson was not the champion of anti-Federalism that Madison was of Federalism, there is little doubt that their views diverged greatly in the society that the Constitution was shaping. However, on the issue of the role of religion, Madison and Jefferson shared many of the same concerns. Madison had as his seminal work in his Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments and Jefferson, the proposed drafts of the Virginia Constitution.

DanielRavenNest

Yay Oxymoron

DanielRavenNest

I'm writing a book on rocket science, and retired at 47. I think your attempt at insulting me fails.

The book (about 1/4 of the way to a first draft): Space Transport and Engineering Methods - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

Mr. B

fify
(goof)

Mocksoup Graves

What are you, 12?

Mocksoup Graves

When ever Mr. B Posts... This song goes through my head. Because i am sure he's an average person with an average house and an average life.

Tracer Graves

Cause calling an ACTUAL rocket scientist a moron for writing a book about rocket science is soooooo smart.

Mr. B

Yes, obviously it had nothing to do with his 'fify' which I quote;


"Originally Posted by Mr. Bullshit
Sorry, as I said before ... I sincerely dislike repeating myself."

And is a statement on my part that has everything to do with his book and him being a "rocket scientist". I trust his book is to much higher standards.

Your intellectual capabilities are astounding.

Mr. B

Zaida Gearbox

Asher Bertrand

U mad?

/me chuckles

__________________