Lo Jacobs

There's a new article in Slate about atheists in America, and a lot of them feel victimized. I am not personally religious, but I find atheist activists embarrassing. I can see why you'd need them in an overwhelmingly religious area, but unlike gay people, atheists aren't exactly being actively persecuted.



Well, sometimes their family members won't talk to them.

Atheist activists model their awareness campaign on civil rights and women's movements.

Perhaps I'm being wrongheaded about this, but I feel like the very idea of creating an organization of atheists is antithetical to what being an atheist is. It's like having a group of people who hate boats, The Boat Haters of America. What do they do when they have meetings? I'm not even trying to suggest that atheists "hate" religion, rather that it doesn't occur to them. If you don't (and never have) smoke cigarettes, do you spend your days wishing you did?

Why do people buy those t-shirts with the atheist "A" on them?

David Silverman says that the Internet is a good reason for why I don't personally feel persecuted:

What do you guys think? I think that joining an atheist group is stupid (I wouldn't join one, personally, it would feel a bit too much like joining a church).

[Slate] via [Andrew Sullivan]

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Ann Otoole

I have not read any of the refs listed. Go try living as an atheist in Polk County Florida.

Lo Jacobs

Seyla Warden

Just going by that OP, I think you don't really understand what an atheist is.

Would it be alright to ostracize and persecute someone because they didn't believe in a Tooth Fairy?

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Cindy Claveau

Or any of the 105 counties in Kansas.

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Lo Jacobs

No, it wouldn't. I don't think it's right to persecute anyone because of their beliefs. Except for Libertarians, fuck those guys.

Dancien Graves

I think if everybody would just shut the fuck up about their belief system or lack of belief system everybody would be just hunky dory. That won't happen though.

Lo Jacobs

I would probably feel different about this if I ever felt that I was being treated unfairly. As it is, the closest I've felt to being victimized for not being involved with something is when I told people that I didn't care about sports.

Is the lack of something that obvious?

Cajsa Lilliehook

George H. W. Bush: "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

In surveys, people say they would not hire an atheist for a position of trust. Routinely, political and religious leaders assert that atheists have no moral foundation since they erroneously believe that religion precedes morality.

Believers seem quite gleeful when asserting "You're going to hell," which since they believe that, it is really quite atrocious. I have not heard of bands of atheists knocking on people's doors to tell them they will rot in a box.

Lo Jacobs

Positions of trust? Do you mean politicians, or do you mean, like, bankers? Do people feel more secure with their psychiatrist if they know their psychiatrist is a Christian?

Is this really a frequent subject of discussion? Obviously, most politicians must make a show of being godly if they want to be elected, even if internally they don't care much. I do think this is annoying, but compared to other pressing social concerns, it rates much lower to me than, say, welfare.

Seyla Warden

To further this, the issue is not that believers... believe... this.

The issue is that the President can say atheists aren't citizens, and it is accepted.

People think/are taught that 'atheist = no morals' and it is accepted.

The issue is that telling people that they'll be damned for all eternity is commonly accepted.

You said you don't see it, Lo. But you don't see it because it's an accepted part of society. It's everywhere.

Seyla Warden

Why is this 'obvious' if not another example of bias/persecution?

bronxelf

In many locations, it honestly *is* a frequent subject of discussion. Questions about "what church you attend" are a way to gauge who you are as a person. In places that tend toward being very religious, particularly those with religious homogenization, people actually DO care what religious denomination their psychiatrist, or their banker or any other position of trust is, because that's what "makes them trustworthy", or in the case of say, a mental health professional, allows them to counsel from a (insert denomination here) perspective.

Where I live it doesn't matter. This is one of the (nigh infinite) reasons I'll never move. I know all too well it matters a LOT in some places.

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Casey Pelous

I'm thinking you haven't experienced much small town life.

In large swaths of the US, "What church do you attend?" is as common a question as, "What do you do for a living?", etc.

"None" is NOT the correct answer. VERY not.

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Seyla Warden

Nothing will bring a conversation screeching to a halt down here in Louisiana like the question 'So which church do you go to?'

eta: I see Casey and I are on the same wavelength here.

Lo Jacobs

Okay, I accept that atheistic activism is needed in many areas in America. However, it doesn't change my impression that atheist activists are embarrassing. I'm no Bill O'Reilly fan, but he does have a point about the billboards that the American Atheist organization put up -- "You Know They're All Scams." It does seem kind of harsh. I'm personally anti-negative advertising.

For instance, "It Gets Better": pro-gay, very supportive, etc. I suppose a version of negative "advertising" for gay men would be "Aren't Vaginas gross?"

Cindy Claveau

I've actually answered "I'm not religious" and haven't had any outrage directed at me. I wasn't invited to the next party, but who cares?

The word "atheist" carries a lot of negative emotion with it. For many, it has associations with those Godless Commies everyone was told to fear in the '50s-60s-70s-80s.

We're "out to destroy Christianity" even though I, personally, have better things to do. I just don't want someone else's religion forced on me, especially using taxpayer money.

I haven't had a Christmas tree in years but I think they can be pretty. And my biggest objection to Christmas music is that it's so corny and overplayed. Just like Valentine's Day.

Cindy Claveau

Please don't judge an entire segment of society by a vocal few.

Some atheist messages have been pretty positive. Some Christians might disagree with me, but I think this one was fairly positive:

Cajsa Lilliehook

Believers deem atheists as untrustworthy as rapists: Study

DemocracyForAmerica.com » Blog » Texas Teacher suspended for being "Liberal" and an "atheist"

I don't agree that we should ignore the oppression of atheists because there are more pressing concerns. We are multi-taskers and can care about more than one thing at a time.

The thing is, oppression and discrimination against atheists is not a salient issue because people don't care about atheists and because it's still an acceptable bigotry. You don't read a lot about it because the majority of Americans think it's acceptable to discriminate and really don't care.

In the vast majority of this country no untenured teacher would ever admit to being an atheist and few tenured teachers would either. The same is true for doctors, child care providers and all sort of people in jobs where being openly atheist would be damaging to their careers.

If you have never lived in a small town, you have no idea how central religion is to life. In many villages the only social center is the church, particularly in the many, many towns without even a school. If there is a school, it blithely ignores the Court's rulings and continues on its merry way with an implicit and explicit Christian worldview permeating it since it rests secure in the knowledge that no one would ever sue as that would be social suicide.

It might also have a VFW, which will also be overtly Christian. That is what rural America is like. These are communities that fly under the radar screen and happily go about their way with their Christianity on full display.

Casey Pelous

I'd like one that said, "There's probably no God. Be kind to each other anyway."

Dancien Graves

I swear to christ every time I start saying "Well Texas has gotten better about being ass backwards" South East Texas has to fuck it all up.

Menchor Barbosa

Actually this statement is from an agnostic, an atheist would have said there is NO god,

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Casey Pelous

So stop saying that. Please.

Maggiedoll Alter

It is just really hard to fathom. I always took it for granted that people are of different religions, non-religions, and not-quite-religions, and people searching for some belief system that would hold meaning for them.

It's really hard to imagine an environment where everybody just assumes that everybody else believes the same thing as they do. Where there aren't people who believe in something but don't like organized religion. Or families where each kid ends up adopting a different religion-- and the parents are okay with that.

It's like a whole different world.

Potosi

All I can do is laugh when people say that religion, namely christian religion, is a good morale basis. I mean the 'good book' says a rape victim must marry the rapist, has all sorts of cases on which the whole village should kill people for tiny infractions, not to mention condoning slavery by giving rules how harshly you should or shouldn't beat them. If anything Athiests have a better chance of having a good morale foundation than most christians.

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