Cristiano

The GOP war on unions continues:

Indiana Senate passes right-to-work bill

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Darnk Yun

Lol, Indiana. beautiful state, stupid people.

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Tigger

Explain why this is bad?

Reading the article it sounds like it outlaws 'closed shops' the kind of thing where you have to belong to a union to get a job in some places of work. What am I misunderstanding ?

Magic Mournblade

It's pretty sad when you have to bend over to corporate America in order to make your state attractive to them.

However, I have seen what uncontrolled union greed and negotiation did to one company which had been a customer of mine. The company was having serious difficulties staying in the black, and they needed to increase employee cost of health and dental. The union walked out over a $7 weekly increase for family dental and $25 a week increase for health. This was at a time when health care costs had risen for nearly everyone else by over 50%. Union members were ok with the health care increase, but because they had never payed anything out of pocket for their dental they balked at any increase there.

The company went belly up, was sold, contracts sent over seas and machinery dismantled. Now none of them have any jobs.

There are times when a union is not good for it's members.

Lloyd Newman

From the article:
Even this isn't quite right - it's the unions that force non-members to pay fees equivalent to dues even if the non-member doesn't wish to be a member. I'm pretty sure that it's not the employer that's wanting to put that in the contract. It's been a way for unions to artificially inflate participation for years. It also forces employees to support the union... and its political arms and agendas... that they might not agree with. To my mind, this SHOULD make unions more responsive and representative of the employees at large, instead of just the more vocal rabble-rousers.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to union membership there over the next year.

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Beau Perkins

It also means unions now have to compete with non-union companies. Many of which do a lesser quality job for....uhhhh.....south of the border wages.

Eboni Khan

Nothing like working some place, being forced into a union, and the union never does anything for you. People should have freedom of choice, if unions want member, then they need to offer services to the members that the members see the value in paying dues for. I don't see how anyone can defend forced membership but I know people will try.

Asher Bertrand

This is a lie.

Beck Rights allow people to pay only the portion of dues that support local negotiating and not pay the portion that goes to political or national activities.

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Asher Bertrand

Unions have done something for everyone, even those who don't belong to them. For example:

40-hour work week
Paid vacations
Paid sick leave
Health care coverage
Workers' compensation
Ending child labor
Lead the creation of the Family and Medical Leave Act
Lessened economic disparity in areas where unions are stronger

Adam Zaius

But thanks to hiring 'services' from the national body at inflated rates; they end up the same thing.

Hooray creative accounting.

(Ignoring the whole topic of overinflating expenses at the local level.)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Ignore Adam, he's just a troll.

Eboni Khan

That is the past, what have they done for people lately? And honest when I worked in a place where I was in a union, the main thing people looked to the Union for was protection from the management, who would fire people people the smallest infractions. Good luck even getting a union rep to be present with you at a meeting. That is one of the most basic services they are supposed to offer to union members and they fail at all. The average person is not going to see the benefit of a union and the unions don't do a good job at all on selling their value.


This legislation is really about taking jobs from Illinois. Indiana has business friendly laws, everything Illinois has, and lower taxes. Why would you do business in Illinois when you can do it in Indiana cheaper?

Asher Bertrand

Having a 40-hour workweek is not the past. It is still the standard.

Paid vacations are not the past. It is still the standard.

Paid sick leave is not the past. It is here for most. It doesn't exist for everyone, but it should (particularly for food service workers who either work when they are sick - think of norovirus here - or go without pay. Trust me, you want them to stay home)

Health care coverage is not in the past - yet. It's being diminsihed, but I think it's pretty fair to say that nearly everyone wants it.

Workers' comp is not in the past. Not yet. Even though Republicans are trying to whittle away at it.

Ending child labor is not in the past, Newt notwithstanding.

The FMLA is still very much alive.

Economic equality is still more the rule where unions exist compared to where they do not.

None of these things are in the past.

But they will be, if you get rid of the organizations that push for measures that benefit not just their own members, but pretty much all of us.

Maggiedoll Alter

I'm confused by this whole "forced to join unions" thing.
The point of a union is to, well, unify workers, so it's harder to take advantage of them, right? What's up with all this "forced to join a union" rhetoric? ARE unions forcing people to join? Or is this some twist on unions getting something into the contract to prevent companies from offering incentives for people to not join the union?

My high school was unionized, and I remember learning quite specifically that nobody was forced to join the union. (Apparently there was one teacher who wasn't a member. Don't know who.)

Eboni Khan

Those are accomplishments of the past. That is like when the Republicans claim to be the part of Lincoln. What have you done lately. I don't think unions would continue to exist if people weren't forced into them to hold certain jobs. Let people have choice I don't see how that can be a bad thing, if unions have value to employees, then employees will join.

Allowing people to choose doesn't meant the end, if you think the only way unions can exist is by forced membership that says a lot about unions.

Asher Bertrand

In "closed shop" states, if you take a job that is represented by a union, you have to pay dues to at least belong to the local of that union. Beck Rights allow you to opt out of paying the portion of dues unrelated to negotiating (and enforcing, I believe) a local contract.

In so-called "right to work" states, if you are hired into a place that has a union, you do not have to join at any level.

Republicans absolutely fucking hate unions because they get in the way of corporations maximizing profit and they have a pesky history of not supporting their candidates. It's why they want to break them.

Also, the phrase "right to work" is particularly odious. This law does not give anyone a "right to work," whatever that ridiculous phrase means. People have the same right to work anywhere. Nor does "right to work" create jobs. States with these laws - such as Arkansas, Mississippi and Alabama, aren't typically jobs powerhouses.

Actually, you can tell by looking at this map exactly why some states are "right to work" (for less) and why some aren't.



Pretty much resembles the red state-blue state map, huh.

Asher Bertrand

They are accomplishments that exist to this day but won't exist much longer if the very organizations that created and continue to fight for them are cut off at the knees. Really, how much longer do you think these things would exist if no one was fighting to keep them there?

Are you fucking serious? I've heard you say this nearly this exact same thing, word-for-word.

Ajax Manatiso

If you wanted to get rid of the 40-hour work week, sick pay, paid vacations, safety regulations, an end to child labor -- what would be your first step in the plan? Destroying Unions. Step 1 accomplished -- don't be so shocked when step 2 comes up.

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Adam Zaius

Yes, in certain US states, you are forced into membership of a particular Union if you work in a particular industry.

I can't quite recall, but I believe there's also only one Union allowed per industry too, so there's no competition. Shenanigans ensue.

Great if you can get yourself a job working for the Union though.

Adam Zaius

Well, right to keep entire paycheck was too long...

Asher Bertrand

It is not by industry, but by unit within a worksite. For example, where I used to work, the writers were not unionized but the people who ran the presses were. And at the newspaper in the next town over, it might have been the opposite or there probably were no unions at all.

No, there is not one union per industry. Many different unions (UAW, AFGE, AFSCME) might represent workers at varous levels of government, all in the same city.

Asher Bertrand

What's funny about that is workers in states like Arkansas can keep their entire paycheck, it's just that their paycheck is a fraction of the size it might have been if there was someone negotiating on their behalf.

detrius

Have you paid any attention to the Republican primaries lately? Did Gingrich's remarks about child labor somehow pass you by, for example?

Those issues are far from 'in the past', don't believe the robber barons had a change of heart since the unions started to keep them in check.

Then the people need to fix the system instead of abolishing it. You don't demolish a house just because the roof is leaky either. Just vote for better representatives.

Getting rid of the unions would just cement the situation and make it even harder to get protection from the management by defining a new status quo, where workers have new rights at all.

AKA "divide and conquer".

Corporations are doing to America's middle class what Caesar did to the Gauls.



Also, the unions are the biggest campaign donors in elections for public office after corporations, so banning them will just ensure that the politicians are even deeper in the pockets of corporate lobbyists than before.

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Eboni Khan

It is fun to say but obviously it is no longer true. Things change.

Why do you think unions can't defend their value? If you are a true believer in the value of unions, they should still be able to maintain membership on the merits of their services.

Eboni Khan

The fact the cost of living is super low in Arkansas has nothing to do with the fact wages are lower...

Casey Pelous

Yer makin' this all up. You don't get how unionization works at all.

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