Logo

Twisted Pharaoh · 02-09-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seyla Warden

So God is Probability now?

Hey! I didn't bring Occam Razor here, YOU did! Don't blame me if it doesn't go the way you expected.

A teacher trying to explain entropy was using this example, but it's entropy that really matters.

Quote:

entropy is defined as a thermodynamic property which serves as a measure of how close a system is to equilibrium; as well as a measure of the disorder in the system. [2] In the context of entropy, "perfect internal disorder" is synonymous with "equilibrium", but since that definition is so far different from the usual definition implied in normal speech, the use of the term in science has caused a great deal of confusion and misunderstanding.

Locally, the entropy can be lowered by external action. This applies to machines, such as a refrigerator, where the entropy in the cold chamber is being reduced, and to living organisms. This local decrease in entropy is, however, only possible at the expense of an entropy increase in the surroundings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy...r_and_disorder)

You can also reword this as:

"Left unattended things tend to go FUBAR"

See also: Murphy's Law,etc...

Seyla Warden · 02-09-2012, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

No, I am saying I know God exist. Whether you believe it or not has no bearing on it.

I think you mean believe. Knowing would require evidence.

I feel like a broken record.

Ishina · 02-09-2012, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

I am not asking for anyone to accept my belief.

Indeed. You just sorta shout your beliefs at people who are in the middle of a discussion with no intention of allowing those beliefs to be scrutinised and crying foul for pages and pages whenever anyone even slightly questions them.

I think your nonchalant attitude about not having to support anything you regurgitate in a thread is in fact a cover for not actually being able to defend your beliefs. I think you shout them at people, not to make any convincing argument or salient point, but to reinforce them to yourself.

Beau Perkins · 02-09-2012, 03:11 PM

Why does it require evidence if I am not demanding you believe me? If I was actually arguing Gods existence, and demanding you take on my beliefs, you would have a point.

I am not doing that though. My comment was just about how stupid it is to constantly be debating science vs God. I agree God cant be proved with physical evidence.

I think many atheist in here DO communicate with God, that passion for science. That love to figure out the internal working of this world. That just might be Gods way and will for your life.

So every time one of you scientific minds are exploring the wonders of science, your actually in prayer to God.

Wow, this is kind of a epiphany right now.

Beau Perkins · 02-09-2012, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seyla Warden

I think you mean believe. Knowing would require evidence.

I feel like a broken record.

My evidence is within me, my communion with God. The Spirit I dwell in daily. The words he speaks directly to my heart. All that I need to know God exist.

Tracer Graves · 02-09-2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

I think all atheist are just jealous they can not feel this spirit.

Oh, please. You take part in religiously based Ecstatic Ritual and you end up with an Alpha state. I've done so myself. I feel the same thing listening to certain music. I could also do so with various sorts of meditation.

Quote:

They have lived life hearing about it but never figured out what it was, so they dive into the notion it can't be proved so it must not exist.

And on the other hand, you take the emotional experiences you have under certain conditions to be proof of a supernatural deity. Your worship service or "spirit filling" is an induced state of mind that makes you prone to subconscious suggestion and indoctrination:

The Battle For Your Mind

Quote:

If you'd like to see a revivalist preacher at work, there are probably several in your city. Go to the church or hall early and sit in the rear, about three-quarters of the way back. Most likely repetitive music will be played while the people come in for the service. A repetitive beat, ideally ranging from 45 to 72 beats per minute (a rhythm close to the beat of the human heart), is very hypnotic and can generate an eyes-open altered state of consciousness in a very high percentage of people. And, once you are in a relaxed "alpha" state, you are at least 25 times as suggestible as you would be in alert "beta" consciousness. The music is probably the same for every service, or incorporates the same beat, and many of the people will go into an altered state almost immediately upon entering the sanctuary. Subconsciously, they recall their state of mind from previous services and respond according to the post-hypnotic programming.

Quote:

Stop being so jealous. That would be like me getting jealous of you for having the brain capacity to understand negative matter and what in the world that big vacuum tube does.

I assure you, jealousy has NOTHING to do with it. I don't believe in something because it makes me feel good. I believe something based on whether it's demonstrably accurate.

Seyla Warden · 02-09-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

Why does it require evidence if I am not demanding you believe me?

If you are not demanding we believe you why are you even posting in this thread? You can believe in God all you want, we get no say in that, so why do you have to come in here and say "Hey I believe! Yes I believe!"? Either you're putting forth an argument or you're not actually contributing to the thread.

Which is it?

eta:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

My evidence is within me, my communion with God. The Spirit I dwell in daily. The words he speaks directly to my heart. All that I need to know God exist.

That doesn't fit the definition of evidence.

Tracer Graves · 02-09-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted Pharaoh

Hey! I didn't bring Occam Razor here, YOU did! Don't blame me if it doesn't go the way you expected.

Did I miss the part where you demonstrated Occam's Razor to leave us with a Deity?

Quote:

A teacher trying to explain entropy was using this example, but it's entropy that really matters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(order_and_disorder)

You can also reword this as:

"Left unattended things tend to go FUBAR"

See also: Murphy's Law,etc...

Is this supposed to make an argument somewhere?

Beau Perkins · 02-09-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Graves

I assure you, jealousy has NOTHING to do with it. I don't believe in something because it makes me feel good. I believe something based on whether it's demonstrably accurate.

Me to. God demonstrates spiritual wonders to me everyday.

Ishina · 02-09-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

Why does it require evidence if I am not demanding you believe me?

Nobody requires anything of you. Nobody asked you to dive into this discussion. Nobody wondered where you were and nobody was waiting for your insight. People were doing fine without you.

I just wish you'd shut the fuck up if you have no intention of supporting anything you say.

Beau Perkins · 02-09-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seyla Warden

If you are not demanding we believe you why are you even posting in this thread? You can believe in God all you want, we get no say in that, so why do you have to come in here and say "Hey I believe! Yes I believe!"? Either you're putting forth an argument or you're not actually contributing to the thread.

Which is it?

eta:

That doesn't fit the definition of evidence.

I did not come in here saying that. I gave an explanation on why this never ending debate is stupid and can never end. It just kind of spun off into this now.

Seyla Warden · 02-09-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Graves

Oh, please. You take part in religiously based Ecstatic Ritual and you end up with an Alpha state. I've done so myself. I feel the same thing listening to certain music. I could also do so with various sorts of meditation.

Excuse me while I put on some Queen.

Beau Perkins · 02-09-2012, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishina

Nobody requires anything of you. Nobody asked you to dive into this discussion. Nobody wondered where you were and nobody was waiting for your insight. People were doing fine without you.

I just wish you'd shut the fuck up if you have no intention of supporting anything you say.

Ishina I know you are angry at life but no need to be so nasty.

Seyla Warden · 02-09-2012, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

Ishina I know you are angry at life but no need to be so nasty.

If you truly only came in here to say that this discussion is dumb then you've done so. Feel free to be done with this thread.

But frankly at this point it feels like you're hanging around just to stir things up.

**Cindy Claveau** · 02-09-2012, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

Why does it require evidence if I am not demanding you believe me? If I was actually arguing Gods existence, and demanding you take on my beliefs, you would have a point.

I think Ishina has a good point - you inject these things into threads that have nothing to do with you or your beliefs and then refuse to defend yourself.

We didn't inject you into this thread. You did.

Quote:

I am not doing that though. My comment was just about how stupid it is to constantly be debating science vs God. I agree God cant be proved with physical evidence.

It began with Sugar making vague, arm-waving statements about the origins of the universe. When she couldn't support her imagined hypothesis, she fell back on the "God defense".

Then you showed up.

If it's so stupid, don't post. See how easy that is?

Quote:

I think many atheist in here DO communicate with God, that passion for science. That love to figure out the internal working of this world. That just might be Gods way and will for your life.

God has nothing to do with it. Your god, someone else's god, or some god not even imagined yet - none of that changes how I think and how I live my life.

As an atheist, I find it highly insulting (and yes stupid) for you to sit there and try to tell me I do believe in Gods when I've very patiently explained time and again that I don't, and why I don't. But hey, we've had that argument a thousand times and you haven't caught on, yet, so why bother.

Beau Perkins · 02-09-2012, 03:22 PM

I love bananas. But I cant prove it scientifically. So do I really love bananas or is it just some euphoric state of mind?

Ishina · 02-09-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

Ishina I know you are angry at life but no need to be so nasty.

And I know you are a scared little man who fails at life when left to your own devices and you need a powerful father figure to guide you and absolve you of responsibility for your pitiful existence, even if that means you have to invent one.

Beau Perkins · 02-09-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

I think Ishina has a good point - you inject these things into threads that have nothing to do with you or your beliefs and then refuse to defend yourself.

We didn't inject you into this thread. You did.

It began with Sugar making vague, arm-waving statements about the origins of the universe. When she couldn't support her imagined hypothesis, she fell back on the "God defense".

Then you showed up.

If it's so stupid, don't post. See how easy that is?

God has nothing to do with it. Your god, someone else's god, or some god not even imagined yet - none of that changes how I think and how I live my life.

As an atheist, I find it highly insulting (and yes stupid) for you to sit there and try to tell me I do believe in Gods when I've very patiently explained time and again that I don't, and why I don't. But hey, we've had that argument a thousand times and you haven't caught on, yet, so why bother.

Man, your heavily into prayer right now. RIGHT ON SISTER. Keep chasing after scientific facts. You are pleasing God!

Seyla Warden · 02-09-2012, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

I love bananas. But I cant prove it scientifically. So do I really love bananas or is it just some euphoric state of mind?

Well, yeah, 'love' is pretty much a euphoric state of mind/series of chemical interactions.

eta: Cindy, you removed the 'spandrels' sentence before I could quote it. But I think it's a good metaphor for God. This may come across as callous and I don't mean it to, but I honestly feel that 'God' is a useful emotional crutch for people who need to feel like there's a purpose or organization to life/existence. It's something a person can grasp onto to explain what seems unfair or uncaring and put a human face to it.

Beau Perkins · 02-09-2012, 03:25 PM

eh, ok. This was a fun break. I'm going back to argue with some evangelicals that God is not some hateful guy in the sky who looks like Gandolph with an attitude.

**Cindy Claveau** · 02-09-2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

Man, your heavily into prayer right now. RIGHT ON SISTER. Keep chasing after scientific facts. You are pleasing God!

Now you're just being an asshat.

You didn't learn much last time you got your foot stuck deep in your throat, did you?

**Arkady Arkright** · 02-09-2012, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

I love bananas. But I cant prove it scientifically. So do I really love bananas or is it just some euphoric state of mind?

Bananas can be proved to exist, god can't - 'love' has nothing to do with it.

Beau Perkins · 02-09-2012, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

God has nothing to do with it. Your god, someone else's god, or some god not even imagined yet - none of that changes how I think and how I live my life.

As an atheist, I find it highly insulting (and yes stupid) for you to sit there and try to tell me I do believe in Gods when I've very patiently explained time and again that I don't, and why I don't. But hey, we've had that argument a thousand times and you haven't caught on, yet, so why bother.

Who said you believe in God? Did those words come out of my mouth? I said your passion for science is Gods will for your life. You don't have to believe that. It is very fine with me if you dont/ I do not insist you do believe in God.

Now go back to the scientific stuff. I do not want to interrupt your time of prayer.

Seyla Warden · 02-09-2012, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins

eh, ok. This was a fun break. I'm going back to argue with some evangelicals that God is not some hateful guy in the sky who looks like Gandolph with an attitude.

Bye.

Beau Perkins · 02-09-2012, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

Now you're just being an asshat.

You didn't learn much last time you got your foot stuck deep in your throat, did you?

ooooo scarry Cindy

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

02-09-2012, 03:11 PM	#254 (permalink)
Beau Perkins Banned veritas, bonitas, pulchritudo, sanctitas Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: CT Posts: 7,858 My Mood: SL Join Date: 12/24/2003	Why does it require evidence if I am not demanding you believe me? If I was actually arguing Gods existence, and demanding you take on my beliefs, you would have a point. I am not doing that though. My comment was just about how stupid it is to constantly be debating science vs God. I agree God cant be proved with physical evidence. I think many atheist in here DO communicate with God, that passion for science. That love to figure out the internal working of this world. That just might be Gods way and will for your life. So every time one of you scientific minds are exploring the wonders of science, your actually in prayer to God. Wow, this is kind of a epiphany right now.

02-09-2012, 03:22 PM	#266 (permalink)
Beau Perkins Banned veritas, bonitas, pulchritudo, sanctitas Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: CT Posts: 7,858 My Mood: SL Join Date: 12/24/2003	I love bananas. But I cant prove it scientifically. So do I really love bananas or is it just some euphoric state of mind?

02-09-2012, 03:25 PM	#270 (permalink)
Beau Perkins Banned veritas, bonitas, pulchritudo, sanctitas Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: CT Posts: 7,858 My Mood: SL Join Date: 12/24/2003	eh, ok. This was a fun break. I'm going back to argue with some evangelicals that God is not some hateful guy in the sky who looks like Gandolph with an attitude.

Logo

Site Navigation