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Old 01-04-2012, 05:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Yes but.....

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It’s depressingly predictable. When an instance of misogyny [from Vivi: or rape or violence against women] gets pointed out on the Internet, in a forum big enough to garner more than a couple dozen comments, you’re almost guaranteed to see some or all of these types of comments. It’s happening now. In case you haven’t heard, there was a recent incident on Reddit/ atheism, in which a 15-year-old girl posted a photo of herself holding a copy of Carl Sagan’s Demon-haunted World that her mother had given her for Christmas… and was almost immediately targeted with a barrage of sexualized, dehumanizing, increasingly violent and brutal comments. Including, “Well 15 is legal in many places, including my country, so I’ll only have to deal with abduction charges.” “Relax your anus, it hurts less that way.” “Blood is mother nature’s lubricant.” “Tears, natures lubricant.” “BITE THE PILLOW, IM GOIN’ IN DRY!” And including comments blaming the girl for posting a picture of herself in the first place.

Rebecca Watson and others — including Stephanie Zvan, Ed Brayton, Jason Thibeault, Jen McCreight, John Loftus, and Ophelia Benson — have been pointing out how revoltingly misogynistic this is and why. And the “Yes, but…”s have been coming thick and fast.

It’s depressingly predictable. And it’s depressing that anyone should have to explain why this is a problem. It seems totally obvious to me. But apparently, it’s not so obvious. So I’m going to spell it out.

When the topic of misogyny comes up, and men change the subject, it trivializes misogyny.

source
This always happens here. Not sometimes. Not once in a while. Not even a lot -- but always. (edit: even in this thread and I sure didn't see that coming). Anytime we have a conversation about rape/abortion/violence against women/misogyny someone invariably comes along and says yes but men get raped/beaten/whatever as well. Usually we shout them down. But I like this article because it explains, better than I have ever done, why its bad and wrong. So I thought I'd post it here and start another gender war or something. Whatever.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Just because nobody's yet said "Bite the pillow, I'm going in dry" here doesn't mean we haven't had some ludicrous misogyny.

I would venture if anyone DID say some of those things, they would find themselves on the long end of a very large ban stick.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks, Vivianne. I just read it (and a couple of the other links). I think sometimes there is just an instant reaction to get defensive, but this explains very well why that instant reaction is not helpful or valid.

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Old 01-04-2012, 05:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Women cannot end misogyny, rape or violence against women. Only men can do that and so long as men of good will are more vested in defending their gender than stopping misogyny, they will continue to allow it to continue.

Men can stop other men from raping with their loud, outspoken and unqualified disapproval.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Did anyone notice that the girl who posted the pic said in the second comment:

"bracin' mah anus"
?
She kind of got the ball rolling with that comment. That fact was kind of conveniently ignored.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hey guys what's this thread abou—

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Originally Posted by Darien Caldwell View Post
She kind of got the ball rolling with that comment.
/me feels the temperature in the thread drop thirty degrees.

/me backs out of it slowly.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Using slang =! invitation for threats of violent anal rape.

Hope that, oh, I don't know... clarifies things.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Hey guys what's this thread abou—



/me feels the temperature in the thread drop thirty degrees.

/me backs out of it slowly.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Coyote Momiji View Post
Using slang =! invitation for threats of violent anal rape.

Hope that, oh, I don't know... clarifies things.
Except they weren't threats. They were going along with her joke.

Obviously the people in the article aren't familiar with 4Chan culture. But most Reddit people are. The girl posting seems to be too, as she used their venacular.

She was no more actually bracin' her anus than anyone was going to do anything. And the joke would have went exactly the same if it had been a male.

But yes, people like to have something to be offended about.

I'll just leave off here saying if you don't want poeple discussing your anus, you probably shouldn't bring it up.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Oh for fuck's sake. Being familiar with 4chan culture is not an excuse. Yeah a 15 year old is probably familiar with it and likely doesn't understand how truly vile it is because, you know, SHE'S FUCKING FIFTEEN YEARS OLD.

Here's a clue though, the ones going along with her "joke" about violently anally raping someone under the age of consent probably were not 15 as well.

Ha ha ha.

Sometimes you're dumb as fuck. I do look forward to you using the opportunity provided by the total anal reaming you're going to receive for this stupidity to remind everyone everywhere else about how "nasty" SLU's culture is, though.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I appreciate the fact that you are saying such despicable stuff but with SUCH A NICE TONE.

Obviously it makes you a better person than someone who responds with justifiable disgust at the fact that you are saying it is her fault.

I, however, have no real compunction about being a bad person when it comes to some cocksucker telling a fifteen year old girl what he wants to do to her, and telling them they are complete wastes of skin - and that the people who defend them aren't much better.

Oh dear! Nasty SLU hivemind strikes again!
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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If she didn't want to be inundated with sexual threats she shouldn't have brought up her anus, Coyote.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Shit, obviously my stepson needs to be threatened with rectal tearing for using that exact same phrase, because you know it's totally an invitation for a deluge of comments about how fuckable he is.

Or it would if he was a girl.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Also, thank you for ~exemplifying~ the "yes, but" that the original article was discussing.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Except they weren't threats. They were going along with her joke.

Obviously the people in the article aren't familiar with 4Chan culture. But most Reddit people are. The girl posting seems to be too, as she used their venacular.

She was no more actually bracin' her anus than anyone was going to do anything. And the joke would have went exactly the same if it had been a male.

But yes, people like to have something to be offended about.

I'll just leave off here saying if you don't want poeple discussing your anus, you probably shouldn't bring it up.
If you look at the actual thread in reddit...

the fuckwits making the comments get shouted down as creepy and inappropriate by other users.

And frankly it doesn't fucking matter if she's been acclimatised to fuckwit culture by 4 chan
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Well, perhaps you guys are right about that. I need to think about this some more. But at first blush it just seems like people aren't getting the spirit the comments were left in. They weren't threats, but humor, and we all know how subjective that can be.

But yes, that doesn't necessarily mean it's right, or proper.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Dari....

Just imagine for one minute that you had a 15 year old daughter, and she was that girl on reddit.

Get it now?

Would you be happy she was acclimatised to expect crap like that online, especially from grown men (I use the term grown men rather loosely because these assholes are older males, but they're neither grown nor men)
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Dari....

Just imagine for one minute that you had a 15 year old daughter, and she was that girl on reddit.
Yes, I get that.

I guess the problem with me is after 18 years of a steady internet diet, i've become pretty de-desensitized to a lot of this stuff.

And that makes me think about the kids who've grown up on the Internet during their formative years. I can remember a time when this would have shocked me. But can they?

Sorry for my insensitivity, I just never put a lot of thought into it before now. Point made.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Well, perhaps you guys are right about that. I need to think about this some more. But at first blush it just seems like people aren't getting the spirit the comments were left in. They weren't threats, but humor, and we all know how subjective that can be.

But yes, that doesn't necessarily mean it's right, or proper.
i don't know whether to groan at you for completely missing the message or thank you for exemplifying what the subject is about.

edit: For the record Darien they are threats. Because when you grow up in an atmosphere where people think anything about being raped -- anally or otherwise -- is funny, its really threatening. Read this.

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Old 01-04-2012, 06:35 PM   #20 (permalink)
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They weren't threats, but humor, and we all know how subjective that can be.
No I know there's an expected degree of "lols harden the fuck up" on the internet about this whole thing but it's attitudes like this that it's not really hurting anybody because there's a whole cross-section of the population that thinks this sort of thing is hilarious which conditions people to, you know, accept idle threats of anal rape and so on as appropriate social behaviour.

She's fifteen. The median age on 4chan is about the same age. These are people growing up in an environment that thinks this sort of behaviour is okay and that it's all right to act this way. Furthermore, they're growing up around examples of people shouting down the few who speak up and think "really, this is reprehensible." This is not a good thing. This is fucking terrifying to me.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:43 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I consulted the handy Swarovski crystal magic 8 ball that Aimee Weber gave to me and asked it how this thread will end. It said LOG OFF NOW!
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:47 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Well in case my apology above was missed, I'll repeat it.

You guys are right, and I appreciate you setting me straight on this. Sorry for not seeing the insensitivity of my viewpoint. And I appreciate Coyo using the kid gloves on me. ;p I really do.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Even if those were intended as jokes/humor (and I'm not convinced they were), joking about rape is still very much Not Okay. I mean, this isn't fucking trigonometry here, people.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Everything else aside for a moment... fifteen-year-olds seriously say "bracin' mah anus" to a forum of adults?? WHAT??
I mean, teens make plenty of dirty jokes among themselves, but since when do they say things like that to a group of adults, and apparently some adults think that this is okay...???

I'm sure that being a teen on the internet today isn't the same as being a teen in scifi chats on 90s AOL used to be, but people were always pretty careful not to direct inappropriateness towards minors-- I tended to get adopted as a little sister. (I know that's not universal, and I'm sure there were other groups that would have been worse, although AOL was decently moderated despite the fact that the non-teen rooms weren't supposed to be aimed toward teens...)

Is nobody else shocked that a teen girl would use a phrase like that in a public forum?
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