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cdcellular · 11-23-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perphides

Right. Because no one in any of the previous failed attempts at socialism ever had the ability to adequately articulate that concept.

Or maybe people just don't work all that hard when the fruits of their labor are given, without their consent, to others.

Perphides believes that all people are inherently greedy and unwilling to do anything for the greater good of the community. I believe all people have the ability to find the good in themselves, and that people can work to better themselves and the rest of humanity. Why does money and possession have to be the driving force behind hard work and determination? The glass is always half empty on the right.

eighthdwarf Checchinato · 11-23-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darnk Yun

Oh perphidip, you're so stupid.

Or just deliberately ignorant.

On the other hand, that's the same - so I have to agree with you.

jacqueline trudeau · 11-23-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perphides

Again, and slower this time just for you. Each of these incidents originated at other publications. The NYT, New Republic, CBS. Can you show even ONE instance of similar import at Fox?

One of has a confused mind. You keep ranting about Fox News making up stories, but you can't seem to show even one example, other than minor editorial errors

I'm done with you.

Enjoy your thanksgiving. Make sure to charge your kids full price for the meal.

Tracer Graves · 11-23-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perphides

Great attempt at spinning the simple fact that the made-up stories we know about are from places like CBS and the NY Times. Fabulous effort, really.

Did you miss the part where I linked the story that Fox News was still reporting that WMD's had been found based on discredited info in 2006, 2 years after the NYT effectively fired Judith Miller and issued a retraction? And that Fox News was one of the biggest forces speaking about WMD's in the run-up to the war in Iraq. So yeah, Fox is worse, they don't issue retractions and they even hire discredited journalists. Hell, they fought for their legal right to lie even. They asked their own investigators to fudge data about Monsanto, which was the basis of the lawsuit. Go to Media Matters, do some google, whatever.

Lying and misrepresentation is a staple at Fox News. They are yellow journalists through and through. When other news sources get caught lying, they have the intelligence to know that it discredits them as a news story, then they fire those at fault and issue retractions. Fox News does no such thing.

Perphides · 11-23-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcellular

Perphides believes that all people are inherently greedy and unwilling to do anything for the greater good of the community. I believe all people have the ability to find the good in themselves, and that people can work to better themselves and the rest of humanity. Why does money and possession have to be the driving force behind hard work and determination? The glass is always half empty on the right.

Wait. Aren't YOU the one saying everybody is greedy? Did I miss something?

Tracer Graves · 11-23-2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perphides

Again, and slower this time just for you. Each of these incidents originated at other publications. The NYT, New Republic, CBS. Can you show even ONE instance of similar import at Fox?

I already did that. Also, here's a study conducted from 2003 that shows that misinformation on Iraq was a widespread pattern, not an isolated incident:

Misperceptions, the Media and the Iraq War - World Public Opinion

Quote:

An in-depth analysis of a series of polls conducted June through September found 48% incorrectly believed that evidence of links between Iraq and al Qaeda have been found, 22% that weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq, and 25% that world public opinion favored the US going to war with Iraq. Overall 60% had at least one of these three misperceptions.

Such misperceptions are highly related to support for the war. Among those with none of the misperceptions listed above, only 23% support the war. Among those with one of these misperceptions, 53% support the war, rising to 78% for those who have two of the misperceptions, and to 86% for those with all 3 misperceptions. Steven Kull, director of PIPA, comments, "While we cannot assert that these misperceptions created the support for going to war with Iraq, it does appear likely that support for the war would be substantially lower if fewer members of the public had these misperceptions."

The frequency of Americans' misperceptions varies significantly depending on their source of news. The percentage of respondents who had one or more of the three misperceptions listed above is shown below.

Gee, who's at the front of that list?

Quote:

One of has a confused mind. You keep ranting about Fox News making up stories, but you can't seem to show even one example, other than minor editorial errors

We've shown dozens of stories. There are multiple websites who report on FoxNews lies and distortions on a nearly daily basis. There have also been repeated polls on how FoxNews viewers are more uninformed or misinformed than viewers of any other news network. Sorry, but you are just wrong. And the degree to which you are wrong is pretty impressive.

Honestly, I'm starting to feel more and more like your trolling is intentional and not merely stupidity. Cause dear lord, the stupid coming from you is powerful.

Jura Shepherd · 11-23-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Graves

There have also been repeated polls on how FoxNews viewers are more uninformed or misinformed than viewers of any other news network.

Well...
PolitiFact | Jon Stewart says those who watch Fox News are the "most consistently misinformed media viewers"

Tracer Graves · 11-23-2011, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jura Shepherd

Well...
PolitiFact | Jon Stewart says those who watch Fox News are the "most consistently misinformed media viewers"

Well, this is what the article itself says:

Quote:

Fox isn’t last on the list, although it’s close -- 35 percent of Fox viewers earned a high knowledge rating, which was tied with local television news and was one point ahead of the network morning shows.

However, Fox’s 35 percent score places it exactly at the national average. This seems paradoxical -- Fox ranks near the bottom of a long list of media outlets, yet it sits right at the national average. But there’s an explanation. Lots of respondents reported following none of the media outlets they were asked about, and those respondents did quite poorly on the knowledge quiz -- not surprisingly. That meant that the non-media-using respondents brought down the national average, but they didn’t constitute a separate category that ranked lower than Fox on Pew’s chart.

Since Stewart was referring to "media viewers," this doesn’t undercut his point. However, the data includes an important counterpoint to Stewart’s claim: Viewers of at least one show on Fox scored quite well -- The O’Reilly Factor, of whom 51 percent made it into the high knowledge group. That made it equal to National Public Radio -- a longtime target of conservative complaints about liberal media bias -- and only three percentage points behind Stewart’s own show, at 54 percent.

So, I'm not sure why this got marked as "false" rather than half true or mostly true. Also, there's recently been another poll showing that fox newers are more misinformed then the general public.

ETA: went on to read further, and I guess other polls have shown varied performance but consistently ranking low as a news channel. There were also a couple instances of individual shows having viewers with high marks.

Tracer Graves · 11-23-2011, 05:35 PM

From that same link, with reference to viewers leading up to the Iraq war, FoxNews ranked worst:

Quote:

• "Misperceptions, The Media and The Iraq War" study, 2003. This study focused on the Iraq War and the lead-up to it. It asked three questions: "Is it your impression that the U.S. has or has not found clear evidence in Iraq that Saddam Hussein was working closely with the al-Qaida terrorist organization?" "Since the war with Iraq ended, is it your impression that the US has or has not found Iraqi weapons of mass destruction?" And whether, "The majority of people favor the US having gone to war."

On these questions, Fox clearly did the worst among the major news outlets. The "misperception rate" for Fox was 45 percent. The highest for other news outlets was CBS News at 36 percent; those with lower "misperception rates" included CNN, ABC, NBC, the print media and NPR/PBS, which was lowest at 11 percent.

So yeah, on the issue of the Iraq war, FoxNews is definitely the worst.

DanielRavenNest · 11-23-2011, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perphides

I don't think any comparison of journalistic integrity between Fox News and the other networks would favor the other networks. CBS had to fire Dan Rather for faking a news story. ABC has faked stories. The NY Times is a cesspool of plagiarism. I don't know that any of those things have happened at Fox. Has Fox had to fire any hosts for faking stories, or any reporters for plagiarism?

You are off the point I made. You suggested large audience = reputable. I pointed out that is not always true.

Umm, let's see about your question... Fox's parent organization is in trouble for breaking into celebrities' cell phones. That does not make me confident of their journalistic integrity.

Tracer Graves · 11-23-2011, 05:48 PM

Ooh, here's something from today:

Fox's Todd Starnes Suggests Occupy Wall St. Protesters Are "Domestic Terrorists" | Media Matters for America

Quote:

In a November 22 tweet, Fox's Todd Starnes suggested that the Occupy Wall Street protesters are "domestic terrorists:"

Now, that wasn't actually FoxNews but a FoxNews contributor, but it just shows you what sort of commitment to facts the people at Fox have.

cdcellular · 11-23-2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perphides

Wait. Aren't YOU the one saying everybody is greedy? Did I miss something?

You must have missed where I never said that.

DanielRavenNest · 11-23-2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perphides

So we have already established that the NY Times prints made-up stories (Judith Miller among others), and that CBS makes up stories (Dan Rather), but can you give me an example of it actually happening at Fox News?

What part of this don't you understand?

Quote:

The court did not dispute the heart of Akre's claim, that Fox pressured her to broadcast a false story to protect the broadcaster from having to defend the truth in court,

Jahar Aabye · 11-23-2011, 06:24 PM

Errr, getting back to the original message of Thanksgiving, if you want to translate it into political terms, it could go like this:

The Pilgrim's expedition was poorly planned, poorly financed, poorly equipped, and generally unfit to achieve its intended goals. However, the failure of the expedition would have meant the deaths of over 100 men, women, and children, making it too big to fail.

Additionally, the expedition's landing proved to be politically convenient for the Wampanoag leadership, whose economy was already on the verge of collapse due to toxic assets from a previous encounter with Europeans. Massassoit feared that this would make the Wampanoag vulnerable to the the Narragansett.

Thus, a politically expedient compromise was proposed, whereby the Wampanoag would offer the Pilgrims a bailout package, using Tisquantum as a translator, even though Massassoit wasn't sure that he was trustworthy. Over the next few years, the Pilgrims continued to require assistance from the Wampanoag. Eventually, as a result of these bailouts, more English settlers followed. Unbeknownst to the natives, some of these settlers had some hidden toxic assets of their own, and these toxic assets, in concert with toxic assets brought over by the Spanish, French, and Portugese, would eventually lead to the collapse and destruction of almost all native Americans*.

So the moral of this story is clear: Be careful about offering bailouts, they might bring on smallpox. Errr, no wait, maybe it's beware of Brits bearing measles? Maybe it's never trust a translator who calls himself The Wrath of the Gods"? Hmmm....I'm sure there's a clear moral of this story, after all, history is supposed to provide clear and concise moral answers to modern dilemmas that are completely unrelated, right?

*Estimates of the death toll from diseases like smallpox and measles on the native Americans ranges from 40% to 95%. In many cases, the disease itself spread out faster than the European settlers, giving the appearance of empty, uninhabited land. The survivors of these epidemics were forced by necessity into a primitive subsistence-level hunter-gatherer form of living as a result of their civilizations crumbling around them.

**Shiloh Lyric** · 11-23-2011, 06:45 PM

A bit off-topic, but I think it's interesting, Perphides, that when it's been shown to you that Fox News is dishonest in their "reporting", you claim it's all just a mistake. This about an organization who employs enough people that facts could be checked on their veracity before such "mistakes" are made. Funny that they're not, though. Anyway, the interesting thing is the quote in your signature:

Quote:

I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go?
Barack Hussein Obama

So, let me make sure I have this correct, m'kay? A huge news organization, who should be concentrating on facts, not falsehoods, can make 'mistakes' (which is evidently what we call lying nowadays, but I digress). However, a physically, mentally and emotionally exhausted man on the campaign trail (just one man, not an organization) cannot? I'm assuming that quote is in your signature as a way to discredit, or poke fun at, your president?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp

Of course, why let a silly thing like reality, facts and context stop you? Carry on amusing yourself.

DanielRavenNest · 11-23-2011, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahar Aabye

Hmmm....I'm sure there's a clear moral of this story, after all, history is supposed to provide clear and concise moral answers to modern dilemmas that are completely unrelated, right?

Sure there is:

"If you want clear title to that nice property you want, make sure you kill off all the previous owners."

As a counter-example, in the cases where they *didn't* eradicate all the previous owners, it has led to long running court cases. See Maine, upstate New York, and Washington State for examples (I'm sure there are lots more).

Casey Pelous · 11-23-2011, 07:10 PM

One needs only to know that Roger Ailes runs Faux News to know they will lie, cheat, and rape puppies to advance the Christian supremacist right wing's march to dominance. See: Nixon, Dick.

**Bard Jameson** · 11-23-2011, 07:43 PM

This thread:

Midori Rotaru · 11-23-2011, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perphides

Again, and slower this time just for you. Each of these incidents originated at other publications. The NYT, New Republic, CBS. Can you show even ONE instance of similar import at Fox?

One of has a confused mind. You keep ranting about Fox News making up stories, but you can't seem to show even one example, other than minor editorial errors

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perphides

Again, and slower this time just for you. Each of these incidents originated at other publications. The NYT, New Republic, CBS. Can you show even ONE instance of similar import at Fox?

One of has a confused mind. You keep ranting about Fox News making up stories, but you can't seem to show even one example, other than minor editorial errors

Then try something more recent ...Oct 14 ..

and here is transcript of the show copy ..

Doocey: "In a cable to Hillary Clinton, the country of Japan didn't think it would be a good idea for the President of the United States to visit Hiroshima, and they worried, apologize for us bombing them."

Kilmeade: "Wait a second... will apologize for dropping a bomb in World War 2?"

Doocey: "Right. Apparently not waiting for Japan to apologize to us for bombing us at Pearl Harbor or the Bataan death March. We would have apologized to Japan. We're so sorry... it was about the same time as the whole apololgy tour... We're sorry that we bombed you in WWII."

..........story spread ...even later claims of " confusion" without stress are irrelevant .

Steve Doocy to issue an apology. “There was never a plan for President Obama to apologize to Japan,” said Doocy, adding, “we should have been clearer about that, and we’re sorry for the confusion.”

look at what said confusion ?...they were very clear in there intent.

oh and for someome who does not watch Fox you were very fast to post the shooter linked to OWS .Which was ONLY first reported on Fox and friends in there Nov mis reporting .

Channeling ?

Gigs · 11-23-2011, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariane

In that case, its Oreo Pie.

Now I want denny's

Gigs · 11-23-2011, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Graves

Gee, who's at the front of that list?

I think to some extent your argument and numbers confuse cause and effect.

People who claim to follow FOX news are likely stupider than people who claim to follow PBS/NPR.

It's kind of like the Ivy League effect... one credible study found that people who applied for and were accepted to, but did not attend, an Ivy League school made just as much money as those who did go. It's not that prestigious schools get you more money, it's merely that more intelligent and talented people are accepted to and attend those schools, people who would have made more money no matter what school they went to.

I think the same effect may be at work here.

Surreal · 11-24-2011, 08:44 AM

Speaking of Thanksgiving...

Siggy,

Do you remember that lamb dish you made when you came out to Philly to visit Ferran and I? I should have paid more attention - it was the tastiest lamb I've ever eaten...

How did you make it?

~Surreal

jacqueline trudeau · 11-24-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Graves

Lying and misrepresentation is a staple at Fox News. They are yellow journalists through and through. When other news sources get caught lying, they have the intelligence to know that it discredits them as a news story, then they fire those at fault and issue retractions. Fox News does no such thing.

Tracer, we dumped a bucket of raw Fox sewage on Perph's head. She takes a lick and declares it chocolate. Not much more you can do.

Tracer Graves · 11-24-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigs

I think to some extent your argument and numbers confuse cause and effect.

People who claim to follow FOX news are likely stupider than people who claim to follow PBS/NPR.

It's kind of like the Ivy League effect... one credible study found that people who applied for and were accepted to, but did not attend, an Ivy League school made just as much money as those who did go. It's not that prestigious schools get you more money, it's merely that more intelligent and talented people are accepted to and attend those schools, people who would have made more money no matter what school they went to.

I think the same effect may be at work here.

Oh, i'm sure that the people watching Fox News were already stupid to begin with. Can't give fox ALL the credit.

DanielRavenNest · 11-24-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Graves

Oh, i'm sure that the people watching Fox News were already stupid to begin with. Can't give fox ALL the credit.

If it keeps them busy and off the streets, I suppose that's a good thing.

11-23-2011, 06:24 PM	#439 (permalink)
Jahar Aabye Script Kitty Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Between our dreams and actions, lies this world Posts: 8,198 SL Join Date: 2/16/2007 Business: Black Operations Client: Singularity	Errr, getting back to the original message of Thanksgiving, if you want to translate it into political terms, it could go like this: The Pilgrim's expedition was poorly planned, poorly financed, poorly equipped, and generally unfit to achieve its intended goals. However, the failure of the expedition would have meant the deaths of over 100 men, women, and children, making it too big to fail. Additionally, the expedition's landing proved to be politically convenient for the Wampanoag leadership, whose economy was already on the verge of collapse due to toxic assets from a previous encounter with Europeans. Massassoit feared that this would make the Wampanoag vulnerable to the the Narragansett. Thus, a politically expedient compromise was proposed, whereby the Wampanoag would offer the Pilgrims a bailout package, using Tisquantum as a translator, even though Massassoit wasn't sure that he was trustworthy. Over the next few years, the Pilgrims continued to require assistance from the Wampanoag. Eventually, as a result of these bailouts, more English settlers followed. Unbeknownst to the natives, some of these settlers had some hidden toxic assets of their own, and these toxic assets, in concert with toxic assets brought over by the Spanish, French, and Portugese, would eventually lead to the collapse and destruction of almost all native Americans. So the moral of this story is clear: Be careful about offering bailouts, they might bring on smallpox. Errr, no wait, maybe it's beware of Brits bearing measles? Maybe it's never trust a translator who calls himself The Wrath of the Gods"? Hmmm....I'm sure there's a clear moral of this story, after all, history is supposed to provide clear and concise moral answers to modern dilemmas that are completely unrelated, right? Estimates of the death toll from diseases like smallpox and measles on the native Americans ranges from 40% to 95%. In many cases, the disease itself spread out faster than the European settlers, giving the appearance of empty, uninhabited land. The survivors of these epidemics were forced by necessity into a primitive subsistence-level hunter-gatherer form of living as a result of their civilizations crumbling around them. __________________ He pulled a Captain Ahab and Jaharpwn'ed her. - Trout

11-23-2011, 07:10 PM	#442 (permalink)
Casey Pelous Provincial Sharia-slun Privacy! 'cause it's SECOND Life, stoopid! Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: USA Posts: 4,729 My Mood: SL Join Date: August 21, 2007 Client: Anything But 2	One needs only to know that Roger Ailes runs Faux News to know they will lie, cheat, and rape puppies to advance the Christian supremacist right wing's march to dominance. See: Nixon, Dick. __________________ "I am not more than a lossy Human being, and think that we all are equals..." - Wasted Engineer "Casey, I've already established that you have no idea what you are talking about." - Perphides

11-23-2011, 07:43 PM	#443 (permalink)
Bard Jameson Situationally Obtuse *SLU Supporter* Avec Chapeau Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9,500 My Mood: SL Join Date: 1/27/2008 Blog Entries: 2 Awards: 2	This thread: __________________ -- Baratia Island - Come Enjoy Your Second Life with Us! Home to Atia Creations Skins, Makeup and More - Come see what The New Girl is making Check our Event Calendar and come join the fun!

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11-24-2011, 08:44 AM	#447 (permalink)
Surreal Suffers Fools Badly Om Nom Nom Nom Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 11,181 My Mood: Blog Entries: 49	Speaking of Thanksgiving... Siggy, Do you remember that lamb dish you made when you came out to Philly to visit Ferran and I? I should have paid more attention - it was the tastiest lamb I've ever eaten... How did you make it? ~Surreal

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