Richie Waves

Indeed it was:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Tra...nAid/EM371.cfm


So.. NAFTA (a Conservative pipe dream) goes through, countless jobs flock to over seas, Mexico ect, and the policy falls flat on its arse so the Conservatives wash their hands of it and blame the liberals. AND IT WORKED!

Serenity

Well it is true that he voted against NAFTA, but he also voted against the Republican Party and with the more liberal democrats.

For the "he's not liberal" argument that's not exactly supportive....

Serenity

__________________
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Billy Grace

NAFTA was signed in 1992 folks, Bill Clinton was President. It was an expansion of the Canada-US Free Trade agreement of 1988 during Bush 1's administration, but was definitely not the same bill. Bush 1 did negotiate the agreement but it was ultimately Bill Clinton who signed it.

This was the vote from the House and Senate.

the U.S. House passed NAFTA on November 17, 1993, by 234-200 vote (132 Republicans and 102 Democrats voting in favor; 156 Democrats, 43 Republicans, and 1 independent against),[7] and the U.S. Senate passed it on the last day of its 1993 session, Saturday, November 20, 1993, by 61-38 vote (34 Republicans and 27 Democrats voting in favor; 28 Democrats and 10 Republicans against, with 1 Democrat opponent not voting).

I admit I didn't look up the actual vote and was going by something I read. Yes, it was legislation supported by Bill Clinton but I will admit I was wrong about how the vote of the senate and House went. Sorry for that, wasn't intentional.

Fact remains that Clinton passed it and McCain backed him and I never liked NAFTA. If it makes you feel better, remove that one from my earlier post. Doing so does not change the fact that McCain has repeatedly thumbed his nose at the Republican Party and sided with the Democrats. At best, he is a Moderate but in my book he is a liberal. He definitely is not a conservative though.

Liona Clio

Funny. People can agree with a person on many issues...but in the end, the label "liberal" or "conservative" comes crashing down and people refuse to listen to anything that the labeled person has to say.

Anyone who disses McCain because they say he's a "damn liberal" deserves the government they forgot to actually evaluate while voting.

__________________


"Well, my days of not taking you seriously have certainly come to a middle."

Especially at night, I worry over situations I know will be alright. Perhaps it's just imagination. Day after day it reappears. Night after night, my heartbeat shows the fear. Ghosts appear and fade away... -Colin Hay

Serenity

The real issue with labels is really only when the label is misapplied.

A friend wants to set me up on a blind date with someone who is, let's say, "anti-video games." That's the label he uses to describe them. Am I wrong to not want to go on this blind date because of the label?

Voting for a Conservative, or agianist a "Socialist", I think is perfectly normal, provided that the label adequetely describes a person's general views. The problem is when you have someone that is a mix of liberal and conservative ideas, and finds themselves with a blanket label rather than dealing with the mix.

But there are those that do fit the mold on either side, just as there are those that are a mix and match.

Serenity

jacqueline trudeau

But the post in reference used McCain's vote *for* (not against) NAFTA as evidence of his supposed liberalism.

It seems like everyone here is confused as to what makes someone liberal or not.

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Richie Waves

I tried making a McCain motivational poster with the tag line "not crazy enough"

somethings up with my PS though

jacqueline trudeau

So going by those tallies, other than President Clinton's support, it can be argued that NAFTA is a republican, if not conservative issue. What does that say about Clinton?

Richie Waves

Not argued, it was.. no questions.. Ronny Raygun wet dream.

Billy Grace

I already fell on the sword and said you were right about the vote. Not sure what else you want here other than to twist the blade.

I was wrong about that one point and admitted it. I guess the 9 points I made should be ignored because of one being wrong.

jacqueline trudeau

Nope, no more arguments from me - you actually have me convinced. So much so I say - Conservatives - do NOT hold your nose. Stay home Nov 4 - do NOT vote for this man, he will sell you out!

Billy Grace

haha... I didn't say that. As much as I personally don't like him I sure will vote for him over Billary or Obama and so will every other conservative out there. One thing I will say that McCain has going for him is that he will pull a decent part of the moderate vote.

I don't think he has the nomination wrapped up yet, Super Tuesday will tell us a lot though. Those states are supposed to favor McCain over Romney, if Romney can even keep it close this one may go down to the wire.

The dems however is a sure bet to go down to the wire. Will be interesting if the lost votes in Mich and Fla ultimately would have turned the election.

Liona Clio

See, I tend to support candidates who have the mix of ideas rather then ones who fit the label. Labels tend to repulse me both when they're inaccurately used and when they *are* accurately used.