Deca!

If I confess that I've videotaped cops actually beating on people at a non-violent, sit-in protest, and have been to court to testify on behalf of my brother and mother who were both assaulted for no reason by the police, can I use that as a badge of honor that somehow makes my (slightly) dissenting opinion worthy of a civil reply?

Because I totally will!

Renaissance Guardian

You're the one who asserted, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, that the person making the video was "following one with a camera, just waiting for him to maybe do something wrong". It turns out that's not what happened at all. You have no evidence that the person with the camera was doing anything other than what he said he was doing, but you're willing to believe that your evidence-free interpretation of the scene is correct because (a) you have a soft spot for dick cops, or (b) you're too proud to back down when you're wrong.

You're right, slander isn't the right word. It was in writing, so it's libel.

Deca!

So that's a no on the badge of honor thing, then? You're right, though, I totally have a thing for dick cops -- unless you actually bothered to read my posts in this thread, instead of seeing a few buzzwords, foaming up at the mouth and thumping out a response with absolutely no basis in fact and a lot of basis in comments from Youtube. Bully for you.

I'm wrong about a lot of things. My opinion on what the cameraman was doing is not one of them, as noone here knows for sure what he was doing. We're all forming opinions.

Renaissance Guardian

Cool, so you don't have a soft spot for dick cops. You're just too proud to back down when you're wrong.

(My previous post was written before I saw your badge of honor post. So sorry for suggesting love of dick cops. Seriously.)

Deca!

I was definitely wrong about you being able to form a civil response to anyone who disagrees with you in this thread.

Have fun with this one, guys. I'm off to see how my brother's court date is doing and to tell him how much I adore the cop who beat the shit out of him in front of news cameras.

Darik

The evidence is in the fact that there is footage of other cops and by his own account - eight hours of it? Who hangs out eight hours after a fight supposedly took place?

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Renaissance Guardian

Okay, I'll fess up to my part in turning this into a pissing match. We're both posting furiously before waiting to see what the other one says. But for real, you made a claim about what the cameraman was doing without doing anything to investigate the context. There's no evidence here to controvert the cameraman's account of what happened, so the only reason I can see for you continuing to believe otherwise is that it would be embarrassing to climb down from your original position.

So I'll do the first embarrassing climbdown. Sorry for suggesting you love dick cops. Totally wrong and uncalled for. My bad.

But the cameraman - totally within his rights, and acting reasonably, not like a dick at all.

Renaissance Guardian

Eight minutes dude. Not eight hours. Eight minutes.

Xiomara Mendes

Please, on this particular issue I'm Team Nobody. At my old office, the one with all the cameras, if I'd suddenly gotten up while I was supposed to be working and started threatening to break the cameras, I'd quickly find myself out of a job. That doesn't mean that it's peachy for my office to film their employees on the outside chance that they might do something wrong. It might be legal, but I don't think it's ethical at all.

Likewise, the cop here should also quickly find himself out of a job. He is supposed to be working, not screaming at people with cameras. That doesn't change the fact that this guy was recording cops for no real reason. His footage did not show any cop acting unethically or illegally until the end. Again, what was he trying to prove? It seems to me that he wanted to catch a bad cop, and well, he got his wish.

And no disrespect to you, Ren, but I probably have more reason to fear the police than a middle aged white guy, especially in this climate of anti-immigrant hysteria. That doesn't change the fact that I recognize that police work is a job just like any other. And just like in any job, there will be people who will be abusive dicks, and people who will be cool, and people who will be some where in the middle. I personally am going to do what I need to do in my daily travels to avoid making myself a target for the abusive dicks and the would-be abusive dicks, as much as I possibly can. That doesn't make me an apologist, just a realist.

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Aimee Weber

It seems that any actions that happen off camera or before the filming are almost automatically cast in favor of the police officer. I'm not 100% certain this is a good bias.

So we're assuming that the photographers actions prior to the time on video qualify as "stalking." We don't assume the unrecorded actions of the officers were, perhaps, "needlessly hostile" or "overly aggressive" or some other kind of behavior that might convince a photographer that "hey, something seems to be brewing here, I should probably record it." I don't know either way, but I haven't assumed anything.

All I can say for certain is that an officer said something to a guy that might get *ME* arrested if I were to say it to a citizen (and would absolutely get me arrested if I said it to an officer.)

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Darik

Okay, eight minutes. I don't know where I read eight hours. I guess the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet.

All the same, while the reaction was inappropriate here as well as the video in this thread ( Policeman draws attention to himself...and looks a fool. ) what would have been the reaction to either of those officers asking politely to stop filming because it gave them the creeps? Would this cameraman respond the same as the one in the other thread with this is a public area and I have my rights so too bad? If he did and the cop was still polite and asking to shut off the camera, would the cameraman then be a dick, or would he be a rebel gonzo journalist posting that on YouTube with the story "cop afraid of camera"?

Renaissance Guardian

Fair enough.

It's not a job like any other. The authority to use force, including lethal force, makes it unlike any other. And therefore should be closely monitored, including by citizens with phone cameras.

Not all cops are abusive dicks, but I don't think the force is a random sample of dickishness, either. A job that, under certain circumstances, allows you to smack your fellow citizens around is bound to attract a disproportionate number of dicks. Unless police forces are serious about keeping the dicks out, they'll flood in. And are they serious? Not in my experience. In my lifetime, I've only seen one chief of police (Joseph McNamara in Kansas City) who was serious about reigning in dick cops. He was run out of town for being mean to our brave men in blue. So yeah, I think cops are more likely to be dicks than your average guy in the street. Could be wrong, but it's not like I have no grounds for believing it.

That's a reasonable personal choice. But that doesn't mean that someone who takes the risk of making himself a target for abusive dicks should be called on the carpet.

Darik

The idea that the man approaching me with a stick, a gun, and a badge is going to beat me up and arrest me for no reason is just paranoid.

Renaissance Guardian

This is sarcasm, right?

Xiomara Mendes

In fairness, you're not being paranoid if they're really out to get you.

Darik

No, it's not. I've never given a cop any reason whatsoever to so much as pull out his/her ticket book. If you approach anyone whether they have a badge or not as someone who is more likely than not to be a punk bully or a rapist that's in my opinion paranoid. Then again, I live a sheltered life where people are generally nice to one another and cops do actually serve and protect.

Darkley

Seriously?
priviledged? do you know anything bout us? do you know anything about me?


im taking umbridge UMBRIDGE

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Renaissance Guardian

Can I take some umbridge, too? I hope it's something like vicodin, because this spread-the-blame-around bullshit is right pissing me off. If cops don't like citizens documenting what they do while performing their duties, they can get another fucking job. Pretending that the cops don't need that kind of monitoring? If it's not privilege, it's foolishness.

Aimee Weber

Umbridge, you say? People of SLU, do you declare Umbridge on Darik?

OK, Darik, do you accept this decree of Umbridge?


South Park Calls Shenanigans (Season 2, Episode 13) - Video Clips - South Park Studios

Darkley

darik?

Darkley

for the record, the cop was bang of of order, and they wshould be watched, but im addressing your 'priviledged' comment

Darik

Yes, Darkley?

Renaissance Guardian

As Xiomara pointed out, the police generally don't fuck with people like me. So, if I wanted to, I could indulge in the fantasy of "the policeman is my friend" or "the policeman is just a guy in a tough situation trying to do a tough job as best he can". I can't count the number of similarly privileged people who indulge in these fantasies. No doubt some people who don't enjoy that privilege engage in similar fantasies, but if they do, they're being foolish.

Darkley

Aimee comment, quoting me but addressing you

Darkley

but addressing us on masse as priviledged was foolish, considering out wide and varied backgrounds and locations

have you ever been arrested?