Nader: Ban College Athletic Scholarships - SLUniverse Forums
Navigation » SLUniverse Forums > Off Topic Discussion > Politics, Religion & Society » Nader: Ban College Athletic Scholarships


Politics, Religion & Society Topics pertaining to politics, religion, philosophy, and social issues. Not for the faint of heart. Also, do not post while drunk, suffering from food poisoning, or while on a low carb diet. You have been warned.

 
Sponsor:
Lionheart Virtual Estate - Experience the Difference!
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-25-2011, 01:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
Grand Cabal Leader
 
Cristiano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 27,381
My Mood:
SL Join Date: Dec 2002
Business: ANOmations
Client: Viewer 2
Blog Entries: 18
Send a message via Yahoo to Cristiano Send a message via Skype™ to Cristiano
Nader: Ban College Athletic Scholarships

Ralph Nader Calls For Ending Athletic Scholarships

He does make some interesting points. I've always thought that education gets shortchanged by the emphasis on sports at schools, both high school and college. Still, I don't think athletic scholarships should be outlawed, but I do think stricter rules need to be in place for them.
__________________
"Compassion is the radicalism of our time." ~ Tenzin Gyatso



Cristiano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 01:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
SUPER BANNED

*SLU Supporter*
 
Free Xue's Avatar
*cat noises*
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38,699
My Mood:
SL Join Date: May, 2008
Blog Entries: 10

Awards: 2
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
*YAWN*

I actually started shouting for this at the radio today when some wingnut on good old Rushie's show started demanding that college professors take huge pay cuts - because they're the reason for all the student loan debt in this country, right?! Damn wealthy college professors.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristiano View Post
you are all trolls (and super gay too!)
[confused cats against feminism]
la lucha sigue...
Free Xue is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
1 User Agreed:
Old 03-25-2011, 01:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Edav Nomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,239
My Mood:
SL Join Date: June 12, 2003

Awards: 1
Gaming Guru 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristiano View Post
Ralph Nader Calls For Ending Athletic Scholarships

He does make some interesting points. I've always thought that education gets shortchanged by the emphasis on sports at schools, both high school and college. Still, I don't think athletic scholarships should be outlawed, but I do think stricter rules need to be in place for them.
Well a lot of people wouldn't even go to college without getting a sports scholarship so they shouldn't be banned all together. Some of those might even wind up in prison or worse without some kind of opportunity to better themselves.
Edav Nomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 01:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
SUPER BANNED

*SLU Supporter*
 
Free Xue's Avatar
*cat noises*
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38,699
My Mood:
SL Join Date: May, 2008
Blog Entries: 10

Awards: 2
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
In fact, let's just shut down all college athletic programs entirely. Let the NFL and NBA set up their own farm leagues, like major league baseball had to!
Free Xue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 01:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member

*SLU Supporter*
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 11,849
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 03/17/2004
I know so many people that have bettered themselves with a college education, and some of them had sports scholarships.

The genie is out the bottle, there is no putting it back in. If scholarships were gone, they would still exist, except it would be even worse, because they would be under the table. I can only imagine what schools like Ohio State and Michigan would do, lol.

And wake the fuck up Nader, need based financial is not keeping pace with college costs and doesn't cover a college education. A full ride on a sports scholarship is a full ride. Tuition at my alma mater went up 7% this week, and pell grants are being cut by 15% so do that math, next year there will be a larger gap.

Nader is a smart guy but he does not exist in reality.
Eboni Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 10:23 AM   #6 (permalink)
E=mc^(OMG)/wtf

*SLU Supporter*
 
Cindy Claveau's Avatar
Editing my edit
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Brownbackistan
Posts: 33,189
My Mood:
SL Join Date: May, 2005
Client: Firestorm
Blog Entries: 16

Awards: 4
Special Achievement In Creepy Avatar Threads 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Xue View Post
In fact, let's just shut down all college athletic programs entirely. Let the NFL and NBA set up their own farm leagues, like major league baseball had to!
College athletics is a multi-billion dollar business. It's not going to go away quietly.

It was only last year that CBS paid $11 BILLION for the rights to the NCAA basketball tournament. The numerous BCS football bowls generate insane revenue for participating schools.

The trick here is that the most successful college programs do make money - the rest can struggle trying to keep up.

But somewhere in the middle, the poor student athlete gets a free education (if he chooses to use it that way) and exposure for a future professional career. Why would the NBA and NFL want the cost of building farm systems when they already have colleges doing it for them?

Report: OSU No. 2 for sports revenue | Business First

2007-08 School athletics revenue:

Quote:
1. Texas – $120.3 million
2. OSU – $118 million
3. Florida – $106 million
4. University of Michigan – $99 million
5. University of Wisconsin – $93.5 million
6. Pennsylvania State University – $91.6 million
__________________
"You're like the world's revenge on sarcasm, you know that?" - Annabel Usher, "The Secret World"
Cindy Claveau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 10:31 AM   #7 (permalink)
SUPER BANNED

*SLU Supporter*
 
Free Xue's Avatar
*cat noises*
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38,699
My Mood:
SL Join Date: May, 2008
Blog Entries: 10

Awards: 2
SLU Creepy Avatar Competition 2014 Participant 
I don't think Cindy caught the whiff of my sarcasm.
Free Xue is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Hugged You:
Old 03-25-2011, 11:18 AM   #8 (permalink)
E=mc^(OMG)/wtf

*SLU Supporter*
 
Cindy Claveau's Avatar
Editing my edit
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Brownbackistan
Posts: 33,189
My Mood:
SL Join Date: May, 2005
Client: Firestorm
Blog Entries: 16

Awards: 4
Special Achievement In Creepy Avatar Threads 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Xue View Post
I don't think Cindy caught the whiff of my sarcasm.
I'm still on cup of coffee #1. I don't hit Genius level until about 4 cups
Cindy Claveau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 12:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
Dead Guy
 
Asher Bertrand's Avatar
Expert Witless
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,383
My Mood:
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eboni Khan View Post
Nader is a smart guy but he does not exist in reality.

You mean we've all been imagining him!?

Organized sports on the scale it exists has nothing to do with the mission of a college or university. I long for the day when people root for their favorite college's physics department or sociology team.
__________________


Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
Asher Bertrand is online now   Reply With Quote
2 Users Agreed:
Old 03-25-2011, 12:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
CEO Fallen Angel Designs
 
Lloyd Newman's Avatar
sutatS tidE
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Rigi
Posts: 4,255
My Mood:
SL Join Date: Late 2006
Business: Fallen Angel Designs
Client: Firestorm 4



http://earthprime.com/episode-guide/images/eggheads.jpg
Lloyd Newman is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Laughed:
Old 03-25-2011, 01:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member

*SLU Supporter*
 
Aliselia Aeon's Avatar
sick of all the bullshit
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 13,028
SL Join Date: October 27, 2007
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau View Post
College athletics is a multi-billion dollar business. It's not going to go away quietly.

It was only last year that CBS paid $11 BILLION for the rights to the NCAA basketball tournament. The numerous BCS football bowls generate insane revenue for participating schools.

The trick here is that the most successful college programs do make money - the rest can struggle trying to keep up.

But somewhere in the middle, the poor student athlete gets a free education (if he chooses to use it that way) and exposure for a future professional career. Why would the NBA and NFL want the cost of building farm systems when they already have colleges doing it for them?

Report: OSU No. 2 for sports revenue | Business First

2007-08 School athletics revenue:
And this is why it won't happen (at least in the near future). It makes too much money for both the universities and the local businesses.
__________________
"Push 100cc of Social Skills, stat!" ~Casey Pelous
Aliselia Aeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 07:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
CEO Fallen Angel Designs
 
Lloyd Newman's Avatar
sutatS tidE
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Rigi
Posts: 4,255
My Mood:
SL Join Date: Late 2006
Business: Fallen Angel Designs
Client: Firestorm 4
There are glimmers of hope from time to time...

LA names new school for teacher honored in film - Yahoo! News
Lloyd Newman is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
Old 03-27-2011, 10:40 AM   #13 (permalink)
Ishtar was a great film.
 
Taco Rubio's Avatar
Serenity Now!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,226
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 2/15/1878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Xue View Post
In fact, let's just shut down all college athletic programs entirely. Let the NFL and NBA set up their own farm leagues, like major league baseball had to!
actually both basketball and football have those set up already.
Taco Rubio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 12:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
That template guy
 
Chip Midnight's Avatar
Meshing Around
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,417
My Mood:
Business: CMFF
College sports is a racket that's run for profit. It's a huge money-maker that exists on the backs of college athletes who don't get to share in those profits. Giving them scholarships is the absolute least they can do.
Chip Midnight is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Agreed:
Old 03-27-2011, 12:16 PM   #15 (permalink)
Filthy.
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 146
His suggestion that college sports organizations lose tax-exempt status makes sense, or at least it aligns pretty well with arguments against tax-exempt status for CTW and similar.

Past that, the article looks to be little more than a personal wish list.
mcgroarty is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Agreed:
Old 03-27-2011, 12:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
E=mc^(OMG)/wtf

*SLU Supporter*
 
Cindy Claveau's Avatar
Editing my edit
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Brownbackistan
Posts: 33,189
My Mood:
SL Join Date: May, 2005
Client: Firestorm
Blog Entries: 16

Awards: 4
Special Achievement In Creepy Avatar Threads 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Midnight View Post
College sports is a racket that's run for profit. It's a huge money-maker that exists on the backs of college athletes who don't get to share in those profits. Giving them scholarships is the absolute least they can do.
This is an old, worn-out argument (on both sides, Chip, not just your statement). It's been argued that college sports also provides a forum for athletes to show their abilities, which translates into millions in professional salaries for some of them. It's not like the athletes are poor, downtrodden indentured slaves. Not hardly.

Those without the ability go on to become coaches (more $$$), media spokespersons, etc. Athletics is a proven launching pad for a successful professional life in many arenas.

And I don't necessarily disagree with you - I think that college athletes deserve a more-generous stipend to go along with their existing privileges. But because there's such an intense focus on amateurism, using the old Olympics formula (that even the Olympics eventually abandoned), I'm not sure the NCAA or the BCS knows how to switch paths. There's just too much money involved right now to make them want to risk the golden goose.

And, of course, college athletes aren't organized like pro athletes are organized.

Anyone who's been around college athletes on campus already knows that they're not like other students. At some high-visibility schools, they attain the status of demi-gods socially. That's just how college society works. Perpetrating the sham that they have to be treated equally with other students is delusional, to my way of thinking.
Cindy Claveau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 01:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
That template guy
 
Chip Midnight's Avatar
Meshing Around
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,417
My Mood:
Business: CMFF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau View Post
This is an old, worn-out argument (on both sides, Chip, not just your statement). It's been argued that college sports also provides a forum for athletes to show their abilities, which translates into millions in professional salaries for some of them. It's not like the athletes are poor, downtrodden indentured slaves. Not hardly.

Those without the ability go on to become coaches (more $$$), media spokespersons, etc. Athletics is a proven launching pad for a successful professional life in many arenas.

And I don't necessarily disagree with you - I think that college athletes deserve a more-generous stipend to go along with their existing privileges. But because there's such an intense focus on amateurism, using the old Olympics formula (that even the Olympics eventually abandoned), I'm not sure the NCAA or the BCS knows how to switch paths. There's just too much money involved right now to make them want to risk the golden goose.

And, of course, college athletes aren't organized like pro athletes are organized.

Anyone who's been around college athletes on campus already knows that they're not like other students. At some high-visibility schools, they attain the status of demi-gods socially. That's just how college society works. Perpetrating the sham that they have to be treated equally with other students is delusional, to my way of thinking.
A very tiny minority of these kids go on to sports-related careers. You generally need actual degrees and good grades to get a job in sports as anything but a player. The rest of them tend to do poorly academically and are not exactly pushed by the school or their coaches to put academics first. They also run a high risk of ending up with debilitating injuries. The prospect of going on to sports stardom and great wealth is dangled in front of them as an incentive while they are basically being used to make other people money. The vast majority of them get very little out of that deal beyond the enjoyment they get from being a college athlete. If you pay a university a large sum of money you should get something out of the deal beyond just being used.
Chip Midnight is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Agreed:
Old 03-27-2011, 02:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
Ordinary Magician
 
Rebel Television's Avatar
Tengulicious
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Newman View Post
Good ep

Rebel Television is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Hugged You:
1 User Likes This:
Old 03-27-2011, 03:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
E=mc^(OMG)/wtf

*SLU Supporter*
 
Cindy Claveau's Avatar
Editing my edit
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Brownbackistan
Posts: 33,189
My Mood:
SL Join Date: May, 2005
Client: Firestorm
Blog Entries: 16

Awards: 4
Special Achievement In Creepy Avatar Threads 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Midnight View Post
A very tiny minority of these kids go on to sports-related careers. You generally need actual degrees and good grades to get a job in sports as anything but a player. The rest of them tend to do poorly academically and are not exactly pushed by the school or their coaches to put academics first.
The NCAA has minimum requirements for GPA and core curriculum. Most schools offer tutors and special study halls for athletes at risk.

Where athletics programs retain value is when you consider how many of these kids would never have had a prayer of getting into college otherwise - much less any interest. Furthermore, I'm not sure whether high school GPA is any more an indication of actual intelligence than IQ tests.

Point of fact: The national average collegiate GPA for male athletes is only slightly lower than male non-athletes - 2.84 vs 3.04. This includes the additional demands on their time of practice, travel, and games.

Grading College Athletes - NYTimes.com

Quote:
They also run a high risk of ending up with debilitating injuries.
Perhaps in football, but it's also a fact that each athlete is insured against injuries - those with pro futures for millions.

Quote:
The prospect of going on to sports stardom and great wealth is dangled in front of them as an incentive while they are basically being used to make other people money.
I would suggest that, for a lot of these kids, that hope comes from media hype more so than college propaganda. How many kids wanted a pair of Air Jordans and wanted to be the next Michael Jordan? It wasn't because of his college career - though he was good - it was because of his sensational pro career with the Bulls.

Quote:
If you pay a university a large sum of money you should get something out of the deal beyond just being used.
The student athletes aren't paying the college much. Room, books, and board are covered by their scholarships and they get some spending money in their tiny stipend.
Cindy Claveau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 04:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
Persistent Participant
 
Kaimi Kyomoon's Avatar
Kaw-EE-mee
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Earth, Early 21st century
Posts: 2,801
My Mood:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Xue View Post
I don't think Cindy caught the whiff of my sarcasm.
I got the sarcasm, Free, and I hit the agree button for that. But I didn't entirely disagree with what you said, either.

Both my husband and one of my kids owe their college educations, in part, to sports scholarships. They both also benefited from all the things that are good about participating in team sports, like learning to work hard and work well with others. Fortunately neither of them ever neglected their academic work. But even at the not disadvantaged high school my daughter played for there were student athletes who did.

As Chip says very few of the high school students working hard to earn sports scholarships will ever become well paid professional athletes. But I believe it isn't rare for student athletes to focus so hard on their dreams of getting rich as professional players that they fail to get good educations.

I don't see abruptly cutting off all non-academic scholarships as a cure-all solution but I do believe that recognizing the problems of the current system and trying to think of solutions is a good
thing.
Kaimi Kyomoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 04:43 PM   #21 (permalink)
Persistent Participant
 
Kaimi Kyomoon's Avatar
Kaw-EE-mee
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Earth, Early 21st century
Posts: 2,801
My Mood:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Television View Post
I loved that show. I don't remember this episode, but obviously it was very cool.
Kaimi Kyomoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 05:10 PM   #22 (permalink)
Senior Member

*SLU Supporter*
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 11,849
My Mood:
SL Join Date: 03/17/2004
You have to keep a C average to play sports, schools invest a lot in tutoring etc to makes sure athletes maintain eligibility. Sports scholarships do more than just pay for an education, it provides a support network for students. I didn't go to college on a sports scholarship but my College boyfriend was on a scholarship, and tutoring athletes helped offset my educational costs. Being close to the situation I can see many benefits.

My son wants an athletic scholarship because he wants to go out of state, and I am not paying out of state costs, and he wants to major in whatever he wants. He could get a music scholarship but he doesn't want to major in music.

One of the guys that stands out to me is a guy who was majoring in some kind of Agriculture major, his goal was to graduate and go help his Grandfather with the family farm, a black family farm, a real rarity, and he accomplished his goal. He had more flexibility than I did with my education because I entered on a scholarship for a specific major and I was trapped in that major if I wanted my education paid for, which was problematic once I realized I didn't like my major.

Nadar is always talking about championing for the consumer and the little guy but I think he is too far detached from this issue to know what the hell he is talking about. People just see all the dollar signs and make assumptions but there are people behind those dollars that are benefiting.
Eboni Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Said Thanks:
Old 03-27-2011, 07:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
Dingdongdiddlyshitfuck
 
Quimby Rothschild's Avatar
Yes, you may smell my dick.
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 724
My Mood:
SL Join Date: April 21, 2006
After today's performance by UNC I'm all for the fucking idea
Quimby Rothschild is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Hugged You:
Old 03-28-2011, 12:31 AM   #24 (permalink)
Script Kitty
 
Jahar Aabye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Between our dreams and actions, lies this world
Posts: 11,142
SL Join Date: 2/16/2007
Business: Black Operations
Client: Singularity
A good friend of mine got an athletic scholarship to a Div-I school, for a fairly non-famous sport (rowing). She would have had difficulty paying for school otherwise, although there was absolutely no doubt that she would have been accepted regardless (she is, quite literally, a genius, but college requires money).

She used the athletic scholarship to cover her undergrad education, and used that degree to go on to earn a Masters degree. Not every athletic scholarship is for big-name sports, and not every student who earns a scholarship is even intending to continue in athletics.

The one problem I have with athletic scholarships is where they're dependent upon competing in the sport. When a student knows that their education is dependent upon their athletic performance, their athletic training becomes as important as their studying. In a way, it becomes yet another test they have to pass. That bothers me, because it prevents students from being able to focus on their studies if they're having academic difficulties, because they literally cannot cut back on their athletic training if doing so would threaten their scholarship.

Finally, I can't imagine how Nader can claim to care about students when he's proposing taking away their scholarships. How the fuck can anyone be against any sort of college scholarship?
Jahar Aabye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 12:36 AM   #25 (permalink)
E=mc^(OMG)/wtf

*SLU Supporter*
 
Cindy Claveau's Avatar
Editing my edit
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Brownbackistan
Posts: 33,189
My Mood:
SL Join Date: May, 2005
Client: Firestorm
Blog Entries: 16

Awards: 4
Special Achievement In Creepy Avatar Threads 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quimby Rothschild View Post
After today's performance by UNC I'm all for the fucking idea
Kansas feels your pain
Cindy Claveau is offline   Reply With Quote
1 User Laughed:
1 User Agreed:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On