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Old 11-03-2010, 01:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Oklahomans ban Sharia law

Because, as we all know, those Muslim terrorists want Oklahoma next!

File under "pointless paranoia with which to unite the masses":

Oklahoma bans Sharia law - Andy Barr - POLITICO.com

Quote:
Oklahoma on Tuesday approved a ballot measure blocking judges from considering Islamic or international law when making a ruling.

Nearly 70 percent of voters in the state cast ballots approving the measure.

The proposition’s sponsor, Republican Rex Duncan, told reporters Tuesday that the proposition is a "preemptive strike" against judges who he worries could be “legislating from the bench or using international law or Sharia law.”

Opponents of the measure pointed out that the First Amendment bars Congress from make any law respecting the establishment of religion.

The proposition also faced criticism from Muslim leaders who have said they intend to challenge it in court.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich is one of the top voices spreading concern that Islamic law may creep into American courts, although he has not provided proof that such fears are justified.

Gingrich attracted national headlines in September at the Values Voter Summit in Washington when he declared, “I am opposed to any efforts to impose Sharia in the United States.”

“We should have a federal law that says under no circumstances in any jurisdiction in the United States will Sharia [law] be used in any court to apply to any judgment made about American law,” Gingrich said.
Oklahoma, "The Duh State".
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Nearly 70 percent of voters in the state cast ballots approving the measure.
Holy crap. That anti-muslim hysteria really works.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Okay, so in 2005..in CANADA.. they had these "community courts" things.
BBC NEWS | Americas | Sharia law move quashed in Canada

And like they wanted to hand over jurisdiction over certain things to religious courts. The lady that organized the rallies against it (Homa Ar-Jomand) did so on the basis that the primary victims of sharia law.. are muslim women.

So while this might be a case of nutty political behavior (Why Oklahoma? I have no idea) .. it's probably a good thing. I don't think any religions should have legal authority over..anything.


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Old 11-03-2010, 02:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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SO Oklahoma has now become a copybot haven for any Non US owned Intellectual Property as it is an international law (the Berne Convention) which means that non national rights holders can have protection in other territories . Thank god Oklahoma is landlocked or all those somali pirates would be looking for another safe haven where International Maritime law doesn't apply
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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They also made English the official language. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAA AHOMA
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jitterbug View Post
Okay, so in 2005..in CANADA.. they had these "community courts" things.
BBC NEWS | Americas | Sharia law move quashed in Canada

And like they wanted to hand over jurisdiction over certain things to religious courts. The lady that organized the rallies against it (Homa Ar-Jomand) did so on the basis that the primary victims of sharia law.. are muslim women.

So while this might be a case of nutty political behavior (Why Oklahoma? I have no idea) .. it's probably a good thing. I don't think any religions should have legal authority over..anything.


* except scientology. DOWN WITH XENU
Community Courts are in some ways an example of Restorative Justice, a legal movement focused on moving away stict adversarial (two sides fight it out) and punative (loser pays fines and/or go to jail) mechanisms of justice, and more toward getting offenders to make amends to their victims and get rehabilitated back into a law-abiding community. Despite the fact that Restorative Justice is far more effective than the traditional justice system, and in particular the victims of crime are far happier with the results of Restorative Justice than with traditional punative justice, many conservatives still resist Restorative Justice because it is too touchy-feely.

Newt Gingrich kills three birds with one stone with fanning the hysteria of Sharia law. First, he feeds the hysteria that a non-white president puts us at risk of foreign cultural infiltration that will destroy American values. Second, he moves us upon the path to the culture wars with non-Westernize countries, wars that we can only win with our military might and comes with the added advantage of controlling resources all over the world (e.g., Middle Eastern Oil). Third, he's taking a shot at the Restortative Justice movement, essentially painting it as antithetical to American values.

Though Restorative Justice does move away from a lot of the uniform technicality and procedure of traditional justice, in favor of more community-tailored procedures and room for creativity, it does not abandon core Constitutional rights. Though it gives community solutions some deference, that deference could not be extended to adoption of Sharia law, because Sharia law severely conflicts with basic Constitutional rights.

Newt wasn't making up the issue out of thin air when he was talking about it. He may be an evil hate-mongerer, but he is an intellecual evil hate-mongerer. Whether Newt's followers who introduced Oklahoma's constitutional amendment are doing so as educated hate-mongerers or ignorant hate mongers, I don't know.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tyche Shepherd View Post
SO Oklahoma has now become a copybot haven for any Non US owned Intellectual Property as it is an international law (the Berne Convention) which means that non national rights holders can have protection in other territories . Thank god Oklahoma is landlocked or all those somali pirates would be looking for another safe haven where International Maritime law doesn't apply
Compliance with the Berne Convention is mandatory under U.S. statutory law (The Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988.)
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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next up... KOSHER LAW -- we will force jewish people to eat pork with dairy products! TRIPLE TRAIF!!!
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
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They also made English the official language. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAA AHOMA
Does that mean they have to start calling flashlights torches?
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
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next up... KOSHER LAW -- we will force jewish people to eat pork with dairy products! TRIPLE TRAIF!!!
Muslims don't eat pork either, so that's a twofer.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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In May 2005, the Quebec National Assembly unanimously supported a motion to block the use of Shariah law in Quebec courts.

What are the concerns about establishing Shariah law in a Canadian jurisdiction?
The National Association of Women and the Law, the Canadian Council of Muslim Women, and the National Organization of Immigrant and Visible Minority Women of Canada argued that under Shariah law, men and women are not treated equally.

They argued that women fare far worse in divorce, child custody and inheritance matters under Shariah law. For instance, a woman can only inherit half as much as a man can. If a divorced woman remarries, custody of the children from her previous marriage may revert to the children's father.


CBC News Indepth: Islam
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The proposition’s sponsor, Republican Rex Duncan, told reporters Tuesday that the proposition is a "preemptive strike" against judges who he worries could be “legislating from the bench or using international law or Sharia law.”
Note how he threw in the old "legislating from the bench" shibboleth. That one gets a lot of mileage - so I suspect this has more to it than the Sharia angle. But throw that word (Sharia) into the mix and you're pushing the fear-and-loathing button hard.

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Old 11-03-2010, 03:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Note how he threw in the old "legislating from the bench" shibboleth. That one gets a lot of mileage - so I suspect this has more to it than the Sharia angle. But throw that word (Sharia) into the mix and you're pushing the fear-and-loathing button hard.

Also, "preemptive strike" - because we're at war!


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Nearly 70 percent of voters in the state cast ballots approving the measure.
Holy crap. That anti-muslim hysteria really works.
I find it even more troubling that these 70% didn't realize that religiously motivated legislation is already banned by the First Amendment and found it necessary to adopt a redundant law. Doesn't that mean they don't support the separation of church and state and would happily march along with any attempt to establish a theocracy as long as it's a Christian one?
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Last edited by detrius; 11-03-2010 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Holy crap. That anti-muslim hysteria really works.
Anything works in Oklahoma.
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Just curious here. WHY should sharia law be enforced by any courts?

I see nothing wrong whatsoever with banning it.

Sooz
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:59 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Just curious here. WHY should sharia law be enforced by any courts?

I see nothing wrong whatsoever with banning it.

Sooz
But why ban something that no one was agitating to use in the first place? That's the issue.

Ugh. Don't look at me. I just live here.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooz Pascale View Post
Just curious here. WHY should sharia law be enforced by any courts?

I see nothing wrong whatsoever with banning it.

Sooz

well sharia law can't override like... real legal law can it? (i mean in this country). so there's nothing wrong with banning it but whats the point?

(other than to show those dirty muslims how prejudiced we are)
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:30 PM   #20 (permalink)
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well sharia law can't override like... real legal law can it? (i mean in this country). so there's nothing wrong with banning it but whats the point?

(other than to show those dirty muslims how prejudiced we are)
When state courts are considering legal issues with no statutory mandate and no clear common law precedence within that state, it may consider the law of other jurisdictions as persuasive. Almost always, such a court considers the law of other states with similar legal traditions to the home state. Theoretically though, a court could look to about anything as persuasive to its ruling.

Also, though I can't remember specifics, I know some courts ruling on custody issues that cross national boundaries (one parent takes the child to another country before other parent can get into the state court to rule on custody), courts have had to consider what if any deference to give to legal proceedings involving custody in other jurisdictions.

The U.S. Supreme Court has been criticized occasionally when some Justices have looked to international law for examples when defining the scope of certain U.S. rights.

Even so, the Oklahoma law is unnecessary, overreaching, and has hatred written all over it. If they wanted to limit the influence of former law when it comes to interpretation of Oklahoma law, they could have done so without singling out Sharia. And they could have done so more effectively without singling out Sharia (as others have pointed out, presumably other religious law is still fair game for courts).

Of course there's a problem with that. Because of the strong Christian influence in the formation of this country, there are many who think that the Christian principles should still have influence in legal interpretation as a matter of history and tradition. If all use of religious law is banned, then courts can't display the Ten Commandments at the courthouse, force people to recite their allegiance to "one country, under God," and invoke the Bible in making rulings.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:41 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Sooz,

What was the benefit of banning it? Was there an overflow of cases in Oklahoma relying on Sharia law for precedents? Lots of store theft ending in stonings?
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Anything people would protest about in Sharia Law is already illegal in the US, which is why similar Christian beliefs are not practiced in this country. Like stoning divorced women and requiring their ex husbands to give up a pair of shoes, singling Sharia law out like this is a religious issue isn't it? I'd imagine it would run afoul of separation of church and state.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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You silly Oklahomans.... Think! It would take a large majority of fundamental Muslims to impose Sharia Law on the general populace anyway. If that ever came to pass, you don't think that majority wouldn't just overturn this little referendum of yours?
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Old 11-03-2010, 05:53 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The problem with sharia law is, as I think even the most Islam enamored left winger would admit, is its unfair, unequal and disparate treatment of women and gay. Now no one is seriously suggesting that sharia law is going to take the place of the US Code or the various State laws on the books. Here is the problem. Divorces under sharia law entered into in other countries, could be ENFORCED by US courts. I do not want to see that. sharia law COULD be used to settle civil disputes between agreeing parties, no matter how unfair the result and how contrary to US legal principles it may be. Then that decision could be enforced by US courts.

Sorry, friends, I don't want to see sharia Law imposed here in any way shape or form. Its wrong and its against our legal principles. Period.


As far as making it illegal before it is a threat, isnt that sort of like having sprinkler systems in high rise buildings, or seat belts or air bags? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Its easy to poke fun at the "stupid okies" but they are dead on right on this one.

Sooz
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Its easy to poke fun at the "stupid okies" but they are dead on right on this one.
It's happened in Germany already, so I have to admit some farsightedness there. Women's rights activists have had real issues with the courts considering Sharia law in divorce cases, and it's sometimes turned out badly for the women if they were the ones seeking the divorce.

Though, if Oklahoma was really being fair, they'd have banned Mosaic law along with it I see some unfairness in singling Islam out, the Old Testament isn't really any better.
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