Asher Bertrand

I haven't seen that be true in my own life. I've seen my own parents do a complete 180 on this issue in the past 10 years. I know that anecdote doesn't equal trend, but I also don't think they're the only ones.

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Ceiri

I would say that's extremely rare.

Trout Recreant

Well, I'm afraid Sooz and I do disagree on how to get there. At least we agree on where we need to go.

I wish I could endorse the 100% method. If I thought it had any hope of success, I would be right there. It would be the best way. The cynic in me says that change will have to come one battle at a time and that wars are not won with one,big knockout punch, but with many, many small battles, each with strategic significance.

On the other hand, what do I know, right? I'm regularly wrong about things

Mocksoup Graves

I used to think that it was selling out. Compromise, I mean. I still sort of do. But I just hope we can continue as a nation to support equal rights for all citizens. Every last one of us.

My daughter and her friends are appalled at some of the hatred being spit out over equal marriage rights. Their 'fair and not fair" meter is being maxed out on the 'not fair' side.

I remember this was how it was for me, growing up. Being taken aback by the casual racism and bigotry that happened in my own family, and in the name of the Lord, Jesus Christ of all things.


After a few blow ups, the casual racism is no longer tolerated at family functions. It's getting that way about the casual gay bashing that goes on. I don't care who is being a bigot. It isn't something I want in my life or my children's lives. It may seem extreme, but we will leave the function. People have to learn that sort of behavior is incorrigible and IS NOT ACCEPTABLE under any circumstances.

Separate but equal is NOT equal. But we have to be able to actually get on the bus.

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Sooz Pascale

I'm wrong a lot too, Trout. At least we admit it.

I would be MORE in favor of civil unions IF they offered all of the benefits that marriage does.

Sooz

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Nothing sickens me more than the closed door of a library - Barbara Tuchman

Gigs

I think if the issue is framed right, then a lot of conservatives would support gay marriage, or at least stop opposing it.

Needing to ask permission from the government before you can get married seems to me to be something that most conservatives would be against. So get the government out of the business of recognizing marriage completely.

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"It is the paramount duty of governments and of politicians to secure the wellbeing of the community under the case in the present, and not to run risks overmuch for the future" - JM Keynes

Trout Recreant

Err...

I was agreeing with the last sentence, not the first one.

Sooz Pascale

I tend to agree Gigs, to a point. The problem is that the "classic" conservatives would probably agree. The new breed of conservatives seem to have a...let's say inconsistent attitude. Many of them don't want government control over business, money making, health care but are just absolutely fine with the government poking its nose into people's bedrooms.

Sooz

Roxanne Blue

Well, I think we have to force the issue to courts and appeal until we can get the right case to the Supreme Court. I believe California's Supreme Court got the post Prop 8 question 100% wrong. Once you decide that something is a matter of fundamental rights, the voters don't get to vote on it any more than we would permit a vote revoking female suffrage or reinstating slavery. That's why we have a judicial branch - to protect unpopular rights and enforce equality.

You can see my situation as a "special case" or you can use it to leverage an injunction to demand that the State of Maine explain why my marriage is legal, but two women still can't get married. Those of us who are gay, lesbian, bisexual & transgender are entitled to FULL equality. Notrhing less IS equality.

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Roxanne Blue... Baroness De Bitche

"Sometimes... there's just a little girl inside of each and every one of us who's looking for people who understand..." - Xiomara.

Sooz Pascale

The Courts cannot and will not do it alone. We have to educate, legislate and litigate.

Sooz

Taco Rubio

forgive my inner 12 year old for laughing at this:

“The people have spoken,’’ Bill Donohue, president of the New York-based Catholic League, said in a statement on the Maine vote. “The time has come for homosexuals to pack it in.’’

Asher Bertrand

Not to belabor a point, but I am. Further evidence that the majority can vote in rights and protections for a minority:

Lewis Luminos

I did some research on civil unions in the UK, and as far as I could discover there's only one way in which they differ from actual marriages, and that's just that they cannot be sanctioned in a place of worship, it has to be a civil office. I think that was a concession to give churches the right to refuse to do them (although there's nothing to stop a gay couple having a religious marriage ceremony in a church, and a seperate civil ceremony at a different time, provided they can find a church that's willing).

Fiscally and socially, as far as I can tell, everything else is the same.

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Gigs

They can, but they often don't.

Especially not when that minority is "the rich".