Lo Jacobs

See, I don't know if I agree with this. Say you relate it to a priest. He's not supposed to have sex or get married because he's supposed to save all that stuff for God, right? But what if he's just a sexual creature? Sure he might go into it with all his heart ... but going against one's nature is never good for the soul.

I love the guy I am with, I think he's intelligent, unusual, handsome and funny, and I want to spend the rest of my life with him. I don't want to let him go. But ... what happens? You know? What happens if I find somebody else that I like too?

I know I'm not going to get married any time soon -- for years -- and I do know that all of this stuff needs to be figured out before I walk down that plank aisle. I think I just need to grow up a little.

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Tracer Graves

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Pamela Galli

Love -- real love -- includes feelings -- affection, romance, lust -- but it is more than feelings, and lasts longer than the oxytocin rush you get when you "fall in love". Giving up that oxytocin rush because you commit to love another says a great deal about the value you place on him/her.

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Nimue Jewell

Nice post, Bard.

What you say here really gets at the heart at what I always believed I was choosing by getting married (albeit too young). It is certainly what I hoped for. At more than a decade in, I am having serious doubts about how satisfying or even possible this will be. It feels like as much an unlikely ideal as that "wholly loving and non-jealous/envious sexual/romantic "poly" relationship."

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Aodhan McDunnough

While I'm pro-monogamy, I acknowledge that man is not by nature monogamous. That is while I prefer monogamy, it is not natural for man to be so. It's purely cultural.

Swans are monogamous by nature as they instinctively mate for life. Man is not. There are several cultures where multiple wives are either allowed or are normal.

If by realistic you mean doable? Yes.

Tracer Graves

I guess I have to say that, if it's right for you, it is possible to be involved in a polyamorous relationship and not have your love for anyone be less than a monogamous relationship. Maybe it's not common, but it's definitely possible. It kind of seems that some were suggesting otherwise with their statements. Now, for those who it doesn't come completely naturally to, it can require a bit of grin and bearing it. But if you are committed to your choice and can handle working through the habitual discomfort you've developed through societal feedback, then it is a definite possibility.

Your partner being with others can be difficult, no matter how comfortable we are with the idea of open relationships in theory. A lot of us are simply conditioned to get upset when our partner is with somebody else in a romantic fashion. Most of us are, however, just fine with our partner being with other friends. So, if you can get over the sense of your relationship being threatened, then it's not really so hard. One important thing is that you don't feel that you have to compete for the same kind of love and support you used to receive. That will always lead to problems. As in any relationship, honesty, communication along with mutual trust and support is essential.

Mocksoup Graves

Actually, Black Swans have a 6% divorce rate and 1/3 of the broods have extra pair paternity (different fathers) as well as some are in same sex pairings. Sounds a LOT like human sexuality to me.

Swans and other fowl are just as likely to exhibit these characteristics, so we can't necessarily hold them us as our monogamy or even heterosexual examples in nature as we once did. __________________

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Nimue Jewell

Noooooo. This is the PRS sub-forum! This is where you are supposed disagree, tell me to stop being a selfish whippersnapper, and explain why I am wrong.



Besides, I've never told you this, but you owe me. My husband/SL partner once tried to make a romantic gesture in SL by taking me out for an evening of dancing and then to a honeymoon type rental. We got to the rental, and I moused over the various scripted items only to see they were all owned by...Bard Jameson. I started freaking out and saying "I can't get it on with you in Bard's bed!" Then I started going on and on about how I felt like I at least needed to wear a sprig of parsley in my hair, so we would have a nice garnish. The night did not turn out at ALL like he planned.

Your sideline romantic rental played a part in my marital woes, Jameson. You owe me debate.

Argent Stonecutter

mono or stereo?

Bard Jameson

OK, since I have to crash now, let me offer you only one small point for consideration...

If "selfishness", as you put it, means making the choice you know you must make, how is that the "cause" of marital woes? Isn't it more likely to be the cause of marital contact? Meaning, the point at which your needs and those of your partner come into contact/conflict, is that not where you each might face your choices?

As I said..as long as choices are open and known, then no matter how difficult they may be, at least they are in the realm of moral options. It is only the hidden that makes us immoral.

Since I have to leave the field tonight, I am sorry I cannot offer better. Perhaps tomorrow I can engage you as you deserve. I am sorry for my weakness.

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Serene S.

I find that I agree with you in a lot of threads to which you post, but just not this one, I guess.....lol.

I think if all parties are in agreement, polyamory can work for couples. It obviously works for you. However, I don't think my aversion to it is based on societal conditioning, but is based on my own feelings and beliefs. I know that a good sexual relationship with my husband keeps me feeling very connected to him. If I, or he, were spreading that around, I feel that it would erode the connection, or partnership, which I feel we currently have.

Sex may not = love to many, but to me, and others I'm sure, it does foster an emotional connection. I've never been about casual sex, though. To me, there is a level of trust involved in being with someone sexually, it's not just a physical release. If I just want a physical release, masturbation is always an option. Sex might seem more exciting with someone new (that whole endorphin rush thing), but to me it's just better with my partner. He knows me and I know him in ways no one else does, or should for that matter. We keep things nice and exciting by experimenting together, which also reinforces are connection. I just really enjoy the intimacy that comes with a relationship with the "one" who turns me on more than anyone else ever has, or possibly could.

Like I said, to each his own, and whatever works for you (you, in the general sense), etc. I'm very happy and content with my monogamous relationship and so are many others I know. Which to me makes it definitely a realistic option in life. Others are happy and content with their polyamorous relationships, which also makes that a realistic option in life. I still think the answer to the OP's question is "yes", but also, evidently, "no".

Asher Bertrand

What I don't get is why anyone would willingly put a partner they love and are devoted to through that kind of hurt. I can't help but see it as incredibly selfish. I say that as someone who has cheated before, because to be brutally honest, I didn't honestly love or feel devoted to my spouse by that point.

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io Kukulcan

I would love to be monogamous with all the women in this thread.
Thank you.

Mocksoup Graves

Either you can live with it or you can't. I would prefer not to live the rest of my life living a lie. I prefer not to keep part of me hidden. And I told Tracer my 'transgressions' and expectations when we first met. He told me his. We still decided to get married. We still decided to have children together. We still decided that we were better together than we ever were apart from one another.

Funny how that honesty thing works. And it was ultimately his decision as to whether or not we are polyamorous or not. Even if Tracer decided he was done with marriage tomorrow, he would still be my best friend. I like him for who he is as a person. We have romantic inclinations to each other, we have common interests, mutual goals. We are supportive of each other's endeavors. We are stronger together, because we both hold each other up. Where I am weak, he triumphs, and where he isn't as strong, I seem to to excel at.

I don't think being honest with a potential partner is being selfish. I never want to hurt Tracer and he never wants to hurt me. Our motivations are pure, and not tainted by pretending to be someone we aren't, just to stay in a relationship. If you can't be together and also be who you are the inside... then you probably shouldn't be in that relationship. If you have to hide things from your partner...you probably shouldn't be in that relationship. It isn't fair to either of you.

Trout Recreant

You can't be monogamous with all of the women in this thread. There are more than one of them.

Mocksoup Graves

We could go Borg, Trout.

Tracer Graves

Well, I'm not really in much disagreement with anything you said, so perhaps I made too sweeping of a statement about social conditioning at play. I'm not going to argue personal beliefs here. I only meant to say that it is a natural reaction to feel jealousy, etc, because usually your partner being with someone else means your relationship with them is threatened. In a strong poly relationship, that isn't the case though.

Tracer Graves

Because, when properly practiced, all involved can benefit from it. So, that's not selfish. Now, cheating is most definitely selfish. That's unfair to your partner and breaks trust. It is, by definition, breaking the rules of the relationship.

Also, when you say 'that kind of hurt' I don't think you are referring to what I'm referring to. The kind of hurt you create when you cheat is one of betrayal and rejection. The kind of hurt you create in the situation I'm referring to is just a few jealousy pangs which can be resolved without any lasting damage if you really are ok with sharing. If you and your partner aren't really ok with it, then you shouldn't do it.

Asher Bertrand

I think that minimizes how it feels for many people.

Tracer Graves

Those people aren't in the situation I'm referring to. I think you're having some fundamental inability to grok people being willfully in an open relationship.

Asher Bertrand

Correct.

Tracer Graves

In a monogamous relationship, when a partner goes outside of the relationship, it is a breaking of trust and potentially a shattering of the plans they had with their partner.

In a polyamorous relationship, when a partner goes outside of the primary relationship, it is not a breaking of trust or a shattering of plans. When the partner gets back (if they even bothered to leave), they talk about it and go about their relationship as usual.

Also, I'd like to re-emphasize that cheating /= multiple partners. Cheating is breaking the established rules of the relationship.

Trout Recreant

I'm not sure what Borging is, but ultra-right-wing, bible-thumping Trout disapproves!

Don't as what "Bible-Thumping" is in this context. It's both dirty AND blasphemous.

Asher Bertrand

I understand the words. What doesn't make sense to me is thinking that the heart will conform to what the words suggest. I've seen a great many poly relationships. I can't recall a happy one of them. That's not to say they don't exist, but I've not seen them.

Tracer Graves

Then let me ask you this. Why is it that it bothers you so much if your partner is with someone else? Can you break it down? Have you ever really thought about it in any detail? (not trying to suggest you haven't, just an honest question)