Tracer Graves

Har Fairweather

Ah yes, the famous blame-the-victim meme. That one sucks big time, too. Even worse, because it is morally egregious on its face, in addition to short-circuiting thought or action and allowing the person using it to feel superior.

And I would differ with myself if I were to "say that every single person in society is doing their part to change a societal attitude that has often excused rape." Of course, I said nothing of the sort, nor implied it. This is what is known as a "straw-man" argument, rephrasing an argument into something else that is easier to attack. Plus, it doesn't apply here: I am not aware of anyone or any social attitude that a 15-year-old girl is "asking for it" by wearing a prom gown in a public place near a dance she attended, or succumbing to coercion to imbibe a large quantity of alcohol. Do you?

Tracer Graves

it's not a straw man fallacy because he qualified it by saying 'if you mean to say'

Asher Bertrand

You bet. The attitude is rampant. Try Googling: girl + rape + "shouldn't be drinking"

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Roxanne Blue

Unfortunately, Asher is quite right about that. There's a torrent of "she shouldn't have gone in an alley to drink with them" excusing the rapists here. It's going on all over the Net.

And, Americans aren't the only ones who may excuse alleged rapists due to consensual drinking at the start of such events...

It's not always rape if a woman is drunk, says judge| News | This is London

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Roxanne Blue... Baroness De Bitche

"Sometimes... there's just a little girl inside of each and every one of us who's looking for people who understand..." - Xiomara.

Asher Bertrand

Someone posted a version of this where I do some volunteering and I thought it put an interesting twist on things:


How Men Can Prevent Rape:

Do not think you have the right to rape a woman.

Do not rape a woman. Do not rape a man.

If you see a woman in a parking lot, don't rape her.

If you see a woman walking alone at night, don't rape her.

If you see a woman in a short skirt, don't rape her.

If you see a woman with long hair, don't rape her.

If you see a woman walking down a dark street at 4 AM, naked, don't rape her.

If you see a woman who is not carrying pepper spray for self protection, does not know karate, does not have a gun, and is not even holding an umbrella to ward you off, still don't rape her.

If you see a woman who has a sign on her head that says "I Want Sex", you don't have the right to force sex upon her.

If you're at a party, and a girl is drunk, and she wants you to kiss her and touch her but then she wants you stop, STOP.

If you're on a date with someone and they want to go so far, but then stop, you STOP. If you don't stop, it is called rape.

Read Ms. Magazine instead of Playboy

If a woman has sex with you one day and doesn't want to have sex with you the next, that is her right. You do not have the right to rape her.

If a woman has sex with you and one hour later does not want to have sex with you again, that is her right. You do not have the right to rape her.

If a woman has sex all the time, with lots of men, and you think she is a slut for it, you still don't have the right to rape her. Women have the right to have sex with who they choose, when they choose, wherever they choose if it is consentual. Just like men.

When you converse with your male friends, be sure to warn them to NOT RAPE ANYONE if they are going out late at night, or if they are going out with a new girl, or if they are doing anything at all where rape might be an issue of concern. Women do this all the time, warning their friends to be careful, warning their daughters, their sisters, their mothers to be careful, to watch out, to lock their doors, to keep their doors locked, to carry pepper spray. We have all sorts of advice we give each other based on our very rational fear of rape. Why don't you try giving every man you now advice on how to prevent rape?

Har Fairweather

Then it is simply a fabrication on his part. One which you are now complicit with.

Dancien Graves

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Colette Meiji

Ive played several of those, Vice City, San Andreas and the newest one - I didn't see any rape

There are hookers and strippers - that isn't rape.

Which version has rape in it?

Colette Meiji

I kind of guessed it would not be a "mainstream" game - which is why Har's comment threw me.

I know Japan had a Rapeman comic book for a while though which reportedly was very popular.

Trout Recreant

I had never heard of Rapelay. I sort of wish I could go back to never having heard of it. But that's not a mainstream game, as Colette pointed out. The GTA series was mainstream, although I don't think you were rewarded for rape in those. The outrage was over sleeping with hookers and then murdering them to get your money back. That's sort of a minor technicality, since murdering hookers isn't exactly the most wholesome activity either.

To stop this sort of behavior, or at least to minimalize it (there will always be psychos and sociopaths of some sort or another) we need broad societal changes in our views. I think, taken individually, the vast majority of people would absolutely condemn the rapists, but to some extent, when all put together, there is still a thread of "she shouldn't have been [drinking][dressed provocatively][hanging out there][whatever]." As long as that view lives, these incidents will happen.

I'm not blaming the parents here, but I think that, in general, parents need to be more involved in their children's schooling. There is a view that school is the parent's chance to get some "me time" and that it's like extended babysitting for the kids. I believe that gives the parents a pass to ignore a huge aspect of their children's lives, and schools just aren't equipped to handle issues that deal with relationships, social roles, morals, ethics, and behavior.

Anyway, that's my .02

Tracer Graves

umm...

ok, you got me?

I never said you meant it that way, but rather that, if you did, I agreed with Asher. Your previous response did leave that possibility open to some degree.

NikitaNightNinja

Jacquelin , alot of people here say they are 'allergic' to the Bible , so I tend to use more general philosophical terms , generally . I can't help it if it is a personal interpetion , as it's my subjective view , ofcourse , of Objective reality , in other words ; I am not God speaking directly God's view as He is Author of the Bible , I am merely stating with my limited understanding what I think He may be telling us both in the Bible and in nature , His other book He wrote also , imo .

But , I am not worried about that, I , we, they can't escape God , who is LOVE ; for God is everywhere . God can speak to them in a way they understand , with or without Bible quotes and directly to the inner chamber of their hearts addressing their own private world He already knows and understands before they say or think anything . It's up to each of us to respond either with respect and love returned or,.... the lack of that . ; ' for in GOD we live and move and have our being ' . (Acts)

This is the main quote from Galatians I was referring to above , that you may be seeking to know . :

Gal 3:28 There is [now no distinction] neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

I am tired now . I have been reading about the new strain of AVI flu virus and the mixed incomplete picture coming out of the Ukraine now ; I don't have much time anymore to be here , besides I am still busy in RL til Dec and Jan , I just had some time now abit .

Luc and Airilynn , I see a couple of things pending . Please do not jump to any conclusions , I will eventually respond to you both . I owe you atleast this brief explanation . I apologise for the delay . I may talk to Chris or Josh or someone first about something in private IM . I have noticed , and I am planning , though it may appear inapreciative and indifferent . That is not intended ! late gotta hustle ...................

I did hear something interesting last month or september , that a female Finnish Priest told me , a Lutheran pastor(ette .) She said ; ' in the Finnish language there is no word for God which translates as in English or Swedish , the word God in the Our Father , but rather it is gender neutral in our culture . ' In response to my talking about God as perhaps being beyond gender , as He is a Spirit ; and again not that I know with absolute certainty or pretend to , but rather we were discussing some theology I had read in the local library a couple years ago regards this topic of God's nature and being . I just remembered that from awhile back , so maybe it's meant for someone here to read as well and comptemplate of ponder on .

BBC-----

255,000 cases of flu and acute respiratory problems have been registered among the 46m population. 15,000 have been hospitalised.
The World Health Organisation says there is no evidence to suggest that Ukraine had a bad outbreak of swine flu, but it has agreed to send a team there to help the country cope.

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NewsFlash from NikitaNightNinjaNewsNetwork : * Contrary to ongoing deceitful propaganda, psyops and most silly rumours ; God is unchanged and still alive as The Sovereign UnCaused Cause of all being and Most Holy Majesty , forever . As for the Ninj , she is just very busy in rw awhile ; and rarely has time for more than her email and Youtube/Berkeley Channel . It is said that she lurks silently unseen at times unawares to most souls , in the SLU Hotel . end * . more to follow ....

Tranquility

While I have no doubt that there are too many assholes out there who think there are viable excuses for rape, the article is a poor example of what you are trying to prove.

The article simply shows the opinion of a judge who says that drunken sex does not always equate to rape. I have to agree that drunken sex can be a tricky issue when it comes to rape (and by no means am I referring to the 15 y/o girl who was raped). I am referring to situations where one or both can't remember what happened. In those cases, it is very hard to determine who is telling the truth and what actually did happen.

I also have to think that some (probably a minority) of the people who say "she is asking for it" mean that she should have known better, not "she deserved it". As a woman, you know rape is a reality and there are certain situations that put you in a higher risk of being raped. It is up to each woman to defend themselves and avoid those situations; don't get off the wall drunk with a random stranger, don't go for a walk in the middle of the night through a dark park, etc.

For example, a friend of mine struck up a relationship with a guy she met online and within a month had him fly out and stay at her apartment for the weekend. That scared the hell out of me because she barely knew this guy, was living by herself in a new place for less than 6 months, she didn't know or talk to any of the neighbors, she didn't tell he parents about it, didn't have any nearby friends who knew about it (I lived a half hour away from her) and only had her cellphone for communication. Thankfully nothing happened, but in my mind she took a huge risk with her personal safety. But it was a situation where you could say she was practically asking for something bad to happen. Tempting the fates, to use an expression.

Har Fairweather

Hhmm. Was she named Blanche DuBois, by any chance? And was he Stan Kowalski?

Siobhan OFlynn

I agree that there isn't technically any rape in those video games, but robbing the hooker after you're through with her and then, running her over with your car or gunning her down as she runs for her life isn't exactly standard operating procedure when completing your hooker transaction.

I have no problem with those games, they're awesome, fun and the graphics and game play is amazing. But I saw mothers buying Grand Theft Auto San Andreas for 10 year old boys and I have a big problem with that.

I remember the day after GTA San Andreas was released, I was listening to Lex and Terry on my way to work and they were discussing the game. Terry joked that even at 40+ he felt like he was too young to be playing it.

I don't agree with censoring video games, but I wonder why a parent would feel it was appropriate for their growing boys to play a game where you have sex with a woman for money, steal the money back and then kill her.

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