Allana Dion

They are both public schools Nikita. The only differences between the two are the income and the quality of the staff, two things that unfortunately often go hand in hand. Believe me, the rich kids would have been just as likely to hurt each other, they just had better supervision.

And you think private school/religious school kids don't act like nasty little shits on occasion and do truly horrible things to each other? Take it from a former Catholic school kid, you have no idea.

__________________
blergh thing

Trout Rated!
Playful, yet sultry and smoky. I am giving you a 6.8 on the Trout Recreant Rating Scale of Sluttiness. Congratulations! You are not a slut, but given the right situation, you certainly have the potential.

NikitaNightNinja

I really do wonder about those teachers and cops , as the rest of you , though . But , I am not tempted so much to post this .

__________________
NewsFlash from NikitaNightNinjaNewsNetwork : * Contrary to ongoing deceitful propaganda, psyops and most silly rumours ; God is unchanged and still alive as The Sovereign UnCaused Cause of all being and Most Holy Majesty , forever . As for the Ninj , she is just very busy in rw awhile ; and rarely has time for more than her email and Youtube/Berkeley Channel . It is said that she lurks silently unseen at times unawares to most souls , in the SLU Hotel . end * . more to follow ....

NikitaNightNinja

Ok , I did not know Salesian is public , as it is also the name of a Catholic order , I forget which , but I think you know that it is too . So , I stand corrected .

I have not known any Christian kids who have done this in any school I went to , neither any of several public schools I also went to , where maybe the use of drugs and alcohol were more prevalent .

As I wrote above somewhere ; it's worse when kids taught the true Light fall , and they may then fall even lower thus , but I am more just aware of that abstractly , than the experience of it , you say have you seen . I am not saying I doubt your claims about that .

NikitaNightNinja

Salesian High , ok maybe it's now a public h.s. now , but why do I have the notion that Saint Francis de Sales a Bishop and excorcist , the founder of the Salesian order , or atleast it's patron , ... why do I have the notion that he might sense the devil's presence working here ; be it the alcohol , the influence of porn on spiritually starved young minds brainwashed denied spiritual knowledge by fanatic neo-pagan philosophies of the adult atheists in society who forbid both sides of the story of history ? Why would I think something like that ? A lady at the end of this piece on CNN suggests the negative influence also of the new type of video 'games' that glorify and reward rape and violence toward women in their stories , too . She may have a good point .

7 am , I have to log of and go .

Colette Meiji

Isn't there actually gang rape references in the bible?

Colette Meiji

Which Video Games simulate/reward rape?

Tracer Graves

Rape in the Bible

When women are no different than property, it's easy to justify.

NikitaNightNinja

Collette , the lady in Chicago commenting on it ( on the CNN video I linked in ), as far as I remember did not say specifically which , to the reporters question . I do remember hearing on an american webstreamed radio broadcast someone decrying the fact that indeed such video-games exist now , more and more . Torturing someone is also held in high regard in some war type of games and held in high esteem enough to reward it with game points , is also what he mentioned . He reports accurately most of what he talks about , but not everyone agrees with his analysis , but that's another story .

I will try to find out where . I am on another PC now , elsewhere . Probably you can think of some good keyword combinations and google it up faster than I can find the names of them .

NikitaNightNinja

The Bible says women are made in the image of God , and in Christ there is no difference between male or female . Paul was way ahead of the pagan world of his time regards respect for women .

Gang rape is mentioned in the Bible , yes . They came , a bunch of arrogant malicious spirited homosexuals , ( and no , stop right there , I am not saying all gay people are violent this way ) , but these were , and they attempted to break into Lot's house , and the two angels there blinded them with a bright energy light , if this is to be taken as literal truth for us , by it's Author .
God's answer came the next day as well for their meaness and aggressiveness towards Lot and the sacred , and with a hail of somekind of high impact fire and mass , as a meteor or something ; thus God showed His opinion as to what He felt about gang rapists and the backward spirituality of rabid egoism of a rapist , in deed and not words alone .
Some modern archeology and science some say support this account , of Sodom being destroyed , and I have seen photos of city ruins under the dead sea , easily discernable as such of a city .

NikitaNightNinja

this is not the war game obviously I am trying to find , but it's about rape in some new weird game called Edmond , I just dug up in a search for you , as evidence they are correct about a new wave of raw violence rewarded in pc games . It's just pixel stuff , but the sounds are not pleasant , I think you might agree , are they ?


Edmund Interview: Where do we draw the moral line? | Gamer Limit

I have also seen torture in a few new hollywood movies where it is justified , more and more I think , as normal behavior , to a scary degree .
this is not it either , I remember it was some game of the war game type .

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-14183546.html

Harvey Swenson

Horror, and Violence aren't new to storytelling and the bible has it's own form of horror, also the % of religious in the community vastly out numbers the non-religious. If that's your only yard stick, removing religion would virtually eliminate all crime.

NikitaNightNinja

I see your point , Harvey . I suspect I have another definition of 'religion' than you do , and perhaps in certain contexts I just expect it ( the word , religion ) to be seen more as meaning spirituality to those who read it .

There is a demonic personality in spirituality and or religion which is perverted , and there is a holy and good spirituality of The Holy Spirit .

I am not sure if the ratio of practicing Christians of holiness , in a state of grace , which is those in the true body of believers is actually greater than to those in erroneous forms of beliefs and those who are just nominally in this religion or sect of one or another , but not practicing . I think God Himself would agree with you that phoney religiousity is not helpful in this world , but semantically i group that into irreligion .

He , Francis , puts better what we both might be saying in different ways or from different angles :

Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.
Francis of Assisi

Harvey Swenson

This was just the first link that popped up but it's not my definition of whats religious, it's the people that self identify as belonging to a religion. If you're not happy with how they practice that religion, perhaps consider whether they are happy with how you practice your religion.

I didn't say anything about phony religion, you did, while dismissing any bad behavior done by the religious so that it didn't tarnish your ideal.

Personally I think people should be able to enjoy their faith anyway that they want rather than having to live up to a false ideal created by another human.

Regardless though, there are enough crimes and atrocities committed by the devoutly religious to completely dismiss your notion. Religion doesn't make a person good or bad, and in your case I would say it makes you bad because without being constantly told to be good you're worried you might go on a killing spree[jk].

NikitaNightNinja

..."so that it didn't tarnish your ideal. " , ...............huh ?
God is my ideal , untarnishable , not humans Harvey , but The Holy Spirit . You ought to know that by now , that that's what I think , after all you've read of my words . I am not sure why He uses such a jaded tarnished person like me somtimes , however , but it shows He can thus use anyone for some good .

If anything , I am harder on 'religious ' , certainly not dismissive ( actually , I think it's 'dismissing ' is more correct to use) of their evil .

thx for your answer Harvey ,.... I'll look at it manjana , too tired now .

but , I saw this on YouTube ,a cool ZZTop slow blues , and just want to see if you consider this religious or spiritual , a prayer , or not . I'll check back to see what U respond .
ZZ Top
Tres Hombres
Jesus Just Left Chicago
Jesus just left Chicago and he's bound for New Orleans.
Well now, Jesus just left Chicago and he's bound for New Orleans.
Yeah, yeah.
Workin' from one end to the other and all points in between.

Took a jump through Mississippi, well, muddy water turned to wine.
Took a jump through Mississippi, muddy water turned to wine.
Yeah, yeah.
[ ZZ Top Lyrics are found on Lyrics ]
Then out to California through the forests and the pines.
Ah, take me with you, Jesus.

You might not see him in person but he'll se you just the same.
You might not see him in person but he'll se you just the same.
Yeah, yeah.
You don't have to worry 'cause takin' care of business is his name.

- Billy Gibbons, Dusty Hill & Frank Beard

Harvey Swenson

You said this wouldn't have happened if it was a religious school and later implied the truly religious are incapable of crime ie-crimes are only committed by the phony religious and non believers

I'll watch it later since I'm not in the mood atm and busy with other things but generally speaking I consider spirituality to be the realm of the universe and religion to be a creation of man to explain things they don't understand but which generally gets used to restrict free thought, behaviour, and promote ignorance by taking advantage the human need to belong.

If you like the music, enjoy it, if it tells you to start a holy war for the promised land or that gay people are evil, and you take it seriously, perhaps you deserve what you get.

NikitaNightNinja

I don't think any person is inheritantly evil , but rather sometimes , maybe oftentimes there is a lack of good in their heart and actions .

The war for me is not the Holy Land , but rather for my own soul and heart , with God's help .

We all deserve what we will eventually get in the next life from God , so we look for His Clemency rather than His justice . In this life though it sometimes appears the apathetic un-good doers are more blessed than those trying to do good in earnest and who have it harder , almost as if cursed , or so it seems at a casual glance .

The Universe is indeed a spiritual place ; for me it is God's Book also that He speaks to us with , and maybe that kind of experiential communication with the Divine in life is your way , with no name to it . (?)

I must log off , I should not write more , while I am this tired , I may have written something , not quite what I meant on this last post , ... so I'll wait now .

Jacquelin Seisenbacher

I have to chime in on this, because we have a huge problem with one of the aspects of this situation in the US. First off, yes, the rapists are the ones to blame, but there are a couple of very important factors that make the adults in the situation as much responsible. Firstly, they are the adults! The human brain has not finished developing until roughly age 21. The part of the brain that is in development during the teens is the part that handles long term consequences and planning. This, of course does not absolve the rapists in any way, as the recognition of other humans as that is developed during the toddler years. But the fact that the adults involved did not have the forthought to have chaperons is completely absurd. The police are not part of the equation except as a back up force if there is a situation that the chaperons needed help with. No chaperons? NO dance! This has little to do, I think, with rich or poor but with just basic responsibility. Who was there to open the facility? Did they not notice that there were no other adults there? on and on. The problem I mentioned though is that in the US we seem hell bent on trying children as adults. This is a HUGE issue because they are NOT adults. The brain development I mention is a huge deal when it comes to actions being legal and illeagal. From smoking pot to beating up another kid, there is the first part of the reasoning that has already developed, but the rest just isn't there yet, or is in development. Please don't think that in any way I am saying that these kids should not be held accountable. I am just trying to say that before taking all of the responsibility off the shoulders of the principle and other staff invovled/surrounding the situation, we have to remember that kids are called kids for a reason, and the same for adults. (Sorry, yet another pre-corfee post >.<)


edited to add: Please Nikita, if you're going to argue religion, quote from the bible instead of posting interpretations. I respect a good religious point of view, but it is hard to respect just interpretation without the context. Also, I have seen far more horrendous things done in the name of one god or another to think for a moment that if religion was involved that it would make a difference. I also know that money has little to do with it. I live in a pretty affluent community, there certainly are a ton of drug problems (high end/expensive drugs of course as well as weed) and as for rape and kids getting pregnant? well, simple, it's all just hushed up. It still happens, we just have the money to keep it quiet.

__________________
"Be yourself, everyone else is already taken" Oscar Wilde

Har Fairweather

Grand Theft Auto, for one. At least in the early versions. Can't speak to later ones.

Asher Bertrand

Look up the video game Rapelay, which is every bit as awful as it sounds. You get to rape a mom and her two teenage daughters, and if one of the daughters gets pregnant you get to force her to have an abortion. Yay! It made some news when Amazon refused to let third parties sell it on its site, and I understand it was so bad it even got banned in Japan eventually. Something Awful did a thorough write-up of it.

__________________

Trout Recreant

How many times do we have to beg for a WTF? button?

Dancien Graves

Look, I really do not care if your friends told you it was cool. Huffing spray paint is not cool. You should really not do it anymore.

__________________

Har Fairweather

I have to take issue with the "I blame society as a whole" meme. It's a shuck.

I take it you're a member of society. Would you care to tell us which part of this crime was your fault?

How about Barack Obama? He's the President of the United States, after all. Which part was his fault? Michelle Obama's? She's a lawyer. I expect there are rape counseling centers in the Bay Area, perhaps even not far from the scene of the crime, which are part of society. How much was their fault? The victim, in a later report, was described as an honor student who attends church three times a week. What was her church's fault?

So you say society as a WHOLE, not any one part. Then please show me where "society" condones rape at all, let alone this particularly vicious gang rape, and how. Is it written into any law, anywhere? Is there a widely acknowledged unwritten "understanding" that this or any other rape is tolerable everywhere or anywhere, even in Richmond, CA? Do police commonly ignore reports of such crimes? Is there a Citizens Applauding Rape (CAR) promoting rape without objection or hindrance? Is there any significant element of the population (aside from rapists themselves) that condones rape? Can you seriously demonstrate how widely distributed depictions of women in provocative poses or couples engaging in sex (an easy example to reach for) actually do lead people to commit crimes such as this, rather than just make an assertion that it does without bothering or expecting to offer proof? I think not.

"Society as a whole" is merely an abstraction. "Society" is composed of everyone in the society, plus the sum total of the mutual conventions and agreements those people accept as in effect within that society.

To blame "society as a whole" is to blame everybody and the sum total of their agreements and conventions. To blame everybody is to blame nobody, including the criminals who actually did the deed (bad upbringing and societal pressures, you know, the poor dears). Doing this sounds good to some, if you say it real fast and don't think about it too much, but it is in fact nonsense.

This widely employed fallacy is harmful, because it has the effect of short-circuiting thought and action when it is applied, like blaming the Devil, or applying the Conspiracy Theory of your choice: You don't have to think about it anymore. One reason it is widely employed is it does allow the person uttering it to assume a posture of moral superiority over "society" - and therefore everybody - and expect to be patted on the back for his "compassion." It is a moral trap. You seem like a person who wants to think things through in a constructive way; please leave behind this intellectual-emotional trap so you can do so.

Be11a Lefevre Bunny Swan

I feel that one key lesson here that should have been taught to all responsible parties is that there are always consequences for any act of violence, negligence, and to have the naive belief that nothing could ever go wrong at an event with unchaperoned minors. It's extremely unfortunate that this lesson was taught at the expense of the young victim.

Asher Bertrand

The game I referenced, for one, as well as other forms of entertainment that gloss over rape.

And yes, society has condoned rape in some instances. Did you see the way she was dressed? She was asking for it. Why did she go out drinking like that if she didn't want to be taken advantage of? What was she thinking going over to his apartment? And so on and so on.


I understand that police have to follow up on reports. However, what happens after that? Are all complaints vigorously pursued by prosecutors? Or are many date rape cases set aside because proving them would be too difficult, thanks to the very attitudes I described above?

Then think again.

I agree with you when you say that not every single person in society is to blame. But I differ with you very much if you mean to say that every single person in society is doing their part to change a societal attitude that has often excused rape.

Harvey Swenson

By not petitioning parliament to make more funds and resources available to the poor, by having an attitude that it's someone else's problem and someone else will take care of it, by thinking that it's someone else's fault and not thinking of the victims as though they are me or my kids, by accepting a judicial system where only 1 in 16 rapists ever spend time in jail or where the victim is frequently blamed for the attacks giving the impression that rape is ok.

Society condones rape, society condones starvation, society condones homelessness, society condones murder, society condones benefits for the rich over the poor, society condones the destruction of the planet for resources, society condones turning it's back on those it deems worthy of no respect.

Society condones a lot of very nasty shit simply by turning it's back on things, preferring profits, blaming the victims, finding scapegoats, and generally trying to feel good about itself without actually fixing problems.

Every single time you think, why should I pay for that, every time you think it's not your problem, every time you think the government is interfering where it's not welcome, every time you think this is a problem caused by some individual, every time your representatives make a decision you feel is against every fiber of your being and you do nothing, every time you think a company should be allowed to make money anyway it wants, YOU PERSONALLY are contributing.

The contribution may be a tiny percent as society as a whole has a lot of members, but just like a football team, you can't just sit on the bench and expect that star player to contribute. Every little bit makes a difference.

Why wasn't there adequate supervision? - overworked exhausted disillusioned parents working in a system that doesn't give a shit about them. Little more than slave labour - so yes, obviously it's the parents faults.

Why weren't the police on hand patrolling the surrounding area? - minimal police presence in a known rough area where any confrontation would turn out badly for the police. Low paid job, long hours, not worth the risk getting killed for a school dance in a poverty stricken area. A feeling that kids will be kids, lets give them a bit of slack maybe.

Why wasn't there better planning by the school? Underfunded, overworked staff dealing with problem teenagers. Again on minimal wages with extremely limited free time.



There was a thread here recently about Military Rape Awareness week, and I think the figures are something like 30% of women in the military are raped. One in 3 in a highly controlled, disciplined, and structured organisation that represents your country to the world.

Congress recently had before it an amendment to prevent defense contracts going to companies that refused to allow their employees access to the legal system in situations of rape and sexual assault. The department of defense was against the amendment and a huge chunk of republican senators were against it too.

This is the society that you say isn't to blame. The same society that you say is against rape in all forms. The same society looking to find yet another scapegoat so that it can feel good about itself.

Sorry Har, I think we all contribute in some way to this, you obviously disagree, thats life I guess.