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Asher Bertrand · 10-26-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

And nothing man...I'm going to go to the hospital now because I saw someone sneeze and I think a few of the molecules blew towards me.

You're thinking you're being amusing here? No one on this thread has said anything of the sort. Some of us have actually had the damned thing, and as far as I know, none of us have done what you said.

Quote:

Can you get the flu twice? I think I'm just going to go to the hospital every time I sneeze from now until next May.

Seasonal and swine? Yes. I had "flu-like" illness in September, and again last week. Doctors aren't testing people unless they do end up hospitalized, so all you're told is "Looks like the flu, probably swine." I'm betting the first one was seasonal or not even the flu itself, since I didn't seem to contaminate anyone, but that last week's was, since schools and some whole school districts around here were shut because so many kids were sick.

As far as how bad the illnesses were, the one last month really affected my breathing. I didn't go to the hospital but I did go to an urgent care clinic, where they gave me an asthma inhaler for the first time ever. Whatever it was I had last month didn't last as long as what I caught last week. My breathing wasn't affected, outside of a bit of a cough, but the fever and aches were worse. Didn't even go to a doctor on that one, just rode it out.

Not exactly hysteria.

But feel free to act like chicken little if it amuses you.

Merovigan · 10-26-2009, 02:56 PM

"President Barack Obama has declared the swine flu outbreak a national emergency, giving his health chief the power to let hospitals move emergency rooms offsite to speed treatment and protect noninfected patients."

I wonder who gets the contracts for moving these "emergency rooms" and setting up alternate locations. I wonder where the money is going to come from.

If you're positioned correctly I bet you could set something up in days and make 40% profit easily. As fast as all this is happening man, it's the wild fucking west for federal contracting.

Seriously, lets as a group try to find the contracts that are going to be given out to advance Mr. Obama's new emergency. I'll ask HQ about it when I get back to work tomorrow.

Merovigan · 10-26-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand

As far as how bad the illnesses were, the one last month really affected my breathing. I didn't go to the hospital but I did go to an urgent care clinic, where they gave me an asthma inhaler for the first time ever. Whatever it was I had last month didn't last as long as what I caught last week. My breathing wasn't affected, outside of a bit of a cough, but the fever and aches were worse. Didn't even go to a doctor on that one, just rode it out.

The mantra of SLU - "If I make it personal, I can prove my point."

Hey, if YOU need the vaccine, have at it. Most of us don't. The VAST majority of us don't. In fact, us getting it is harming you people who do, so how about we stop advertising a useless product? How about we stop using PUBLIC money (you know, that thing we're already almost completely out of) to fund a private company's profit? We're doing their advertising, we're subsidizing them, we're setting up the places you can get the product. We're shutting out any competition.

Merovigan · 10-26-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand

Doctors aren't testing people unless they do end up hospitalized, so all you're told is "Looks like the flu, probably swine."

I'm sure that's helping the scare too. "The doctor said I probably had swine flu." How long do you think that idea floats around before it turns into "The doctor definitely said I have swine flu."?

Scared. Fucking. Monkeys.

I get that some people need to not catch the flu. Do you get that some people DO, just so that they can take some time off work to chill out and stop being a paranoid freak?

**Jesse Barnett** · 10-26-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigs

No, I'm not.

H1N1 Influenza A is the regular seasonal flu.

However, it looks like the CDC is now calling swine flu the "2009 H1N1 Influenza A" which is a confusing name. A few weeks ago they were calling it "Novel H1N1", in order to distinguish it from normal H1N1 that comes every year.

Try this link.

Influenza A virus subtype H1N1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gigs · 10-26-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Barnett

Try this link.

Influenza A virus subtype H1N1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I read that link. That article is about the regular seasonal flu.

Pandemic H1N1/09 virus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This one is about the pandemic flu strain naming, but even it doesn't accurately reflect the current CDC naming, which has apparently changed about a million times over the last few months, hence my initial confusion.

It appears that the CDC is referring to swine flu as "2009 H1N1 Influenza A" at this point, as far as I can tell. But that also means that they have zero samples identified as seasonal flu, which doesn't seem right to me. See if you can make sense of the subtyping data on the CDC site.

Asher Bertrand · 10-26-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

The mantra of SLU - "If I make it personal, I can prove my point."

Hey, if YOU need the vaccine, have at it. Most of us don't. The VAST majority of us don't. In fact, us getting it is harming you people who do, so how about we stop advertising a useless product? How about we stop using PUBLIC money (you know, that thing we're already almost completely out of) to fund a private company's profit? We're doing their advertising, we're subsidizing them, we're setting up the places you can get the product. We're shutting out any competition.

Actually, I don't need it anymore. I made up my own vaccine the hard way.

If you can't see any more to this than a profit for a pharmaceutical, then you're myopic. A disease that spreads easily and quickly enough to shut down schools and cause mass absenteeism from workplaces is going to take an economic toll. If you can't see why a government has an interest in staving that off, then you're dense.

Asher Bertrand · 10-26-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

I'm sure that's helping the scare too. "The doctor said I probably had swine flu." How long do you think that idea floats around before it turns into "The doctor definitely said I have swine flu."?

MASSIVE LOL!

You were just bitching about this all being a ruse to pad the pockets of big phrama, and then you say they should do more testing even when it's not going to help anyone or determine any treatment plan - but guess who would benefit from that?

Quote:

Scared. Fucking. Monkeys.

You keep insisting people are scared but not showing any evidence of it. Put up or shut up.

Quote:

I get that some people need to not catch the flu. Do you get that some people DO, just so that they can take some time off work to chill out and stop being a paranoid freak?

Hell, I was one of those until this year. In fact, I've never had a flu shot. I looked forward to getting sick just so I could get a break from work, LOL, even though I hadn't actually had the flu since 1993. I'd planned on getting them this year though because I have someone living with me now who has asthma. And by dumb luck, I got sick before I could even get it. So, again, I don't know what the fuck you're on about being a paranoid freak.

Merovigan · 10-26-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand

If you can't see any more to this than a profit for a pharmaceutical, then you're myopic. A disease that spreads easily and quickly enough to shut down schools and cause mass absenteeism from workplaces is going to take an economic toll. If you can't see why a government has an interest in staving that off, then you're dense.

I don't agree that the economic toll is significant enough to warrant what's happening.

Merovigan · 10-26-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand

So, again, I don't know what the fuck you're on about being a paranoid freak.

The millions of people who don't need a flu vaccine, but are still getting one. These people are consuming a product they don't need, and public money is being used to provide it.

Asher Bertrand · 10-26-2009, 03:38 PM

It's by your judgment they don't need it, or what?

Merovigan · 10-26-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand

It's by your judgment they don't need it, or what?

The CDC's judgment will suffice.

**Jesse Barnett** · 10-26-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigs

I read that link. That article is about the regular seasonal flu.

Pandemic H1N1/09 virus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This one is about the pandemic flu strain naming, but even it doesn't accurately reflect the current CDC naming, which has apparently changed about a million times over the last few months, hence my initial confusion.

It appears that the CDC is referring to swine flu as "2009 H1N1 Influenza A" at this point, as far as I can tell. But that also means that they have zero samples identified as seasonal flu, which doesn't seem right to me. See if you can make sense of the subtyping data on the CDC site.

Ah I see where you got lost at then, which is easy to do with this stuff. In the link I gave, which is the link for generic H1N1 type A viruses it had this as the second or third line:

"Influenza b (H1N1) virus is a subtype of influenzavirus A and the most common cause of influenza (flu) in humans."

That is the important part. Pandemic H1N1 type A/strain 09 is the Swine Flu we are facing and it is the one that is showing up on all of the lab reports at this time. Normal seasonl flu's are type B's NOT type A's.

The link you provided has excellent information and where i would have pointed you to at some point anyways. This is some of the data I was referring to earlier why professionals have been worried about this one. This flu can mutate and get much worse but it already has one very deadly trait and that is that it infects both type a2-3 & type a2-6 receptors. In laymen's terms: this kills asthmatics. The fact that it is an H1N1 virus is also what gives it the ability to mutate, much more so then normal flu viruses. It is the same type as the Spanish Influenza and if it mutates the same it will kill the same. Sars was a different type but it killed the exact same way as the Spanish Flu, fortunately that type is not nearly as infectious. This one is.

Nothing may happen, which would be fantastic news. It may not mutate anymore. For the reasons I tried to explain in everyday terms above, for researchers this has a very strong potential to turn into the equivalent of a Category 5 hurricane and you can not wait until it hits to take action. Everyone hopes it downgrades to a Tropical Storm, but even now everyone already really needs help in the emergency rooms and in the hospitals.

Merovigan · 10-26-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Barnett

Nothing may happen, which would be fantastic news. It may not mutate anymore. For the reasons I tried to explain in everyday terms above, for researchers this has a very strong potential to turn into the equivalent of a Category 5 hurricane and you can not wait until it hits to take action. Everyone hopes it downgrades to a Tropical Storm, but even now everyone already really needs help in the emergency rooms and in the hospitals.

If not many people are dying, why do people need help in the emergency rooms? To keep them from dying? Like people walk in on the edge and the emergency rooms are saving their lives?

It's my understanding that the researchers expected this to make people very ill, and to kill about 36,000 people. That's almost exactly how many people die to the flu every year. How is that the equivalent of a Category 5 hurricane?

Hey Asher, remember when you asked me who was panicking? Does equating "Everyone called out sick with the sniffles" to a category 5 hurricane count?

**Jesse Barnett** · 10-26-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

If not many people are dying, why do people need help in the emergency rooms? To keep them from dying? Like people walk in on the edge and the emergency rooms are saving their lives?

It's my understanding that the researchers expected this to make people very ill, and to kill about 36,000 people. That's almost exactly how many people die to the flu every year. How is that the equivalent of a Category 5 hurricane?

Hey Asher, remember when you asked me who was panicking? Does equating "Everyone called out sick with the sniffles" to a category 5 hurricane count?

First person ever in my ignore list. Congratulations as this makes you a troll among trolls.

Merovigan · 10-26-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Barnett

First person ever in my ignore list. Congratulations as this makes you a troll among trolls.

Just you, four months from now all you'll read is:

Profit Driven Swine Flu Propaganda - Pump Up the Volume Part 1

If I'm a troll, you're the left's version of an Ann Coulter fan. Really, there's no difference between the sides, except which issues make you turn off your brain.

Asher Bertrand · 10-26-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

If not many people are dying, why do people need help in the emergency rooms? To keep them from dying? Like people walk in on the edge and the emergency rooms are saving their lives?

It's my understanding that the researchers expected this to make people very ill, and to kill about 36,000 people. That's almost exactly how many people die to the flu every year. How is that the equivalent of a Category 5 hurricane?

Hey Asher, remember when you asked me who was panicking? Does equating "Everyone called out sick with the sniffles" to a category 5 hurricane count?

You're the one acting hysterical, Mero.

Arilynn · 10-26-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

And we bought 250 million doses of this untested product.

Why do you think this is untested?

It is my understanding that the H1N1 vaccine was held to the same standards as the seasonal flu vaccine.

Quote:

From the CDC:

Licensure of vaccines against novel influenza A (H1N1) virus will be based on the same licensure standards used for seasonal influenza vaccines, as is done routinely each year when strains are changed in the seasonal vaccine.

Thus, the manufacturers of the H1N1 vaccine, as with the seasonal vax, were required to obtain a biologics license. This requires a showing of safety, purity, and effectiveness before a license is granted:

Quote:

From the FDA:

Biological products are licensed under the authority of section 351 of the Public Health Service Act (PHS Act) (42 U.S.C. 262). Under section 351, BLAs are approved only upon a showing that the product is "safe, pure and potent," and that the manufacturing facility meets standards designed to assure that the biological product "continues to be safe, pure, and potent."
...
The safety of the new vaccine should be well characterized in pre-licensure clinical trials. Local and systemic reactogenicity events should be well defined in all age groups for whom approval of the vaccine is sought. Appropriate grading scales to describe the severity of the adverse events should be included in the study protocol.4 Serious adverse events must be monitored and collected for all subjects throughout the duration of the studies (21 CFR 312.23, 312.32, 312.56, 312.60 and 312.62). The protocol should include a clinic visit or telephone contact at least six months post-vaccination to ascertain additional serious adverse events and new onset of chronic illnesses that may have occurred in the interim.
For vaccines using novel manufacturing processes and/or adjuvants, laboratory safety tests including hematologic and clinical chemistry evaluations, may be needed pre-and post-vaccination in the first clinical studies. Depending on those findings and pre-clinical data, additional clinical laboratory tests in later studies may be needed.

According to the FDA, even accelerated approval requires pre-approval testing:

Quote:

Accelerated approval may be granted for certain biological products that have been studied for their safety and effectiveness in treating serious or life-threatening illnesses and that provide meaningful therapeutic benefit over existing treatments.
...
Safety data must be collected from subjects enrolled in pre-licensure clinical trials intended to support the accelerated approval of a new seasonal inactivated influenza vaccine (21 CFR 312.23, 312.32, 312.56, 312.60 and 312.62). The monitoring of these subjects should follow the outline for safety evaluations described in Section III.A.3. above.

**Beebo Brink** · 10-26-2009, 04:29 PM

Emergency preparedness is not about being absolutely certain the worst is happening before taking action; it's about taking precautions so that IF the worst happens, you're already prepared. By its very definition, this will result in some false positives, in which action is taken and found to be unnecessary.

See related: prudence, common sense, risk mitgation

Sansarya · 10-26-2009, 04:34 PM

So can someone tell me, if you've already had H1N1/Influenza A, can you get it again and should you get an immunization?

Arilynn · 10-26-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansarya

So can someone tell me, if you've already had H1N1/Influenza A, can you get it again and should you get an immunization?

The CDC says that if you had tested positive for the current H1N1 virus, you should have some immunity against it and probably won't need it. It also says that if you elect to get the vaccine anyway, you won't be at any additional risk.

Quote:

From the CDC: Should I get vaccinated against 2009 H1N1 if I have had flu-like illness since the Spring of 2009?

The symptoms of influenza (flu-like illnesses) are similar to those caused by many other viruses. Even when influenza viruses are causing large numbers of people to get sick, other viruses are also causing illnesses. Specific testing, called “RT-PCR test,” is needed in order to tell if an illness is caused by a specific influenza strain or by some other virus. This test is different from rapid flu tests that doctors can do in their offices. Since most people with flu-like illnesses will not be tested with RT-PCR this season, the majority will not know whether they have been infected with 2009 H1N1 flu or a different virus.

Therefore, if you were ill but do not know if you had 2009 H1N1 infection, you should get vaccinated, if your doctor recommends it. So, most people recommended for 2009 H1N1 vaccination should be vaccinated with the 2009 H1N1 vaccine regardless of whether they had a flu-like illness earlier in the year. If you have had 2009 H1N1 flu, as confirmed by an RT-PCR test, you should have some immunity against 2009 H1N1 flu and can choose not to get the 2009 H1N1 vaccine. However, vaccination of a person with some existing immunity to the 2009 H1N1 virus will not be harmful.

It is also my understanding that you can be re-infected with H1N1 even without further mutation of the virus, but that subsequent infections are generally much more mild.

Mocksoup Graves · 10-26-2009, 04:54 PM

You can't get it again,unless it mutates, and if it mutates, the vaccine will be more than likely worthless. Your body is now protected by the antibodies that are produced by your immune system. It is the same reason that if you got chicken pox, you are protected from getting it again unless your immune system gets out of whack and it can come back as shingles. If you got the vaccine, you need to get it again as an adult because your body doesn't produce the same response and your risk goes back up for shingles.

That's why you are supposedly supposed to get the flu vaccine each year. They make an educated guess as to which flu virus strains are going to be prevalent and make a vaccine based on those.

Immunobiology is FUN! *deadpans*

Mocksoup Graves · 10-26-2009, 04:56 PM

What Arilynn said.

Arilynn · 10-26-2009, 05:04 PM

Sorry, Sans. I got it wrong and Mockie is right: Although there are reported cases of reinfection in Buffalo and Mexico, the thinking is that these are not true cases of reinfection, although the Buffalo cases are still being studied.

What Mocksoup said.

Gigs · 10-26-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Barnett

Normal seasonl flu's are type B's NOT type A's.

I don't believe this particular claim is correct. A lot of the reading on Wikipedia and on the CDC site contradicts this. WP claims that Flu A/H1N1 was almost half the cases in 2006 seasonal flu, and Flu A/H3N1 was the most prevalent in January 2006.

Wikipedia can be wrong of course, but it would have to be really wrong in a lot of places.

10-26-2009, 02:56 PM	#77 (permalink)
Merovigan Hard-Hitting Cornerback I thought they should have filed for bankruptcy BEFORE we gave them billions of dollars Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,929 My Mood: Blog Entries: 11 XBOX Leaderboard: 2^nd Awards: 1	"President Barack Obama has declared the swine flu outbreak a national emergency, giving his health chief the power to let hospitals move emergency rooms offsite to speed treatment and protect noninfected patients." I wonder who gets the contracts for moving these "emergency rooms" and setting up alternate locations. I wonder where the money is going to come from. If you're positioned correctly I bet you could set something up in days and make 40% profit easily. As fast as all this is happening man, it's the wild fucking west for federal contracting. Seriously, lets as a group try to find the contracts that are going to be given out to advance Mr. Obama's new emergency. I'll ask HQ about it when I get back to work tomorrow. __________________ “I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence.” Frederick Douglas

10-26-2009, 04:29 PM	#94 (permalink)
Beebo Brink Uppity Alt SLU Supporter I'm the woman your mother warned you about. Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 5,401 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 8 SL Join Date: October 2006 Business: Brazen Women Shapes and Skins	Emergency preparedness is not about being absolutely certain the worst is happening before taking action; it's about taking precautions so that IF the worst happens, you're already prepared. By its very definition, this will result in some false positives, in which action is taken and found to be unnecessary. See related: prudence, common sense, risk mitgation __________________ Browse http://www.BrazenWomen.com

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10-26-2009, 03:38 PM	#86 (permalink)
Asher Bertrand Dead Guy Creaking watermelons Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,118 My Mood: Blog Entries: 2	It's by your judgment they don't need it, or what?

10-26-2009, 04:34 PM	#95 (permalink)
Sansarya Koo Koo Kachoo! Feh Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Rosebud Posts: 1,567 My Mood: SL Join Date: April 2005 Blog Entries: 2	So can someone tell me, if you've already had H1N1/Influenza A, can you get it again and should you get an immunization?

10-26-2009, 04:56 PM	#98 (permalink)
Mocksoup Graves Senior Member is feeling rather bitchy again. edits host file Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,284 My Mood: SL Join Date: March of 2007... I think Business: desolation/grace, MockSkins and Clothing Blog Entries: 1	What Arilynn said.

10-26-2009, 05:04 PM	#99 (permalink)
Arilynn is running in the snow Ninja of love Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 5,711 My Mood: SL Join Date: July 3, 2008 Business: Wandering about in a daze. Tabbing out. Blog Entries: 5 Awards: 1	Sorry, Sans. I got it wrong and Mockie is right: Although there are reported cases of reinfection in Buffalo and Mexico, the thinking is that these are not true cases of reinfection, although the Buffalo cases are still being studied. What Mocksoup said.

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