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Old 09-12-2009, 10:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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The 14 characteristics of Fascism

Not sure if there's a topic on this already, but looking at all the 9-12'ers today made me want to make sure people understood what the terms 'Nazi' and 'Fascism' actually describe:

Fascism Anyone? The 14 characteristics of Fascism

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1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to 'look the other way' or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -- The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military -- Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism -- The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and antigay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media -- Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or through sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security -- Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -- Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -- The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed -- Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses, and even forego civil liberties, in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions, and who use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections -- Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against (or even the assassination of) opposition candidates, the use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and the manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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There used to be an excellent video on bushwatch.com, that listed these points, and showed how the Bush administration exhibited i think it was 12 out of the 14
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Old 09-12-2009, 11:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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There used to be an excellent video on bushwatch.com, that listed these points, and showed how the Bush administration exhibited i think it was 12 out of the 14
And were no doubt working on the other 2.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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"9-12'ers" ??
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:36 AM   #5 (permalink)
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"9-12'ers" ??
The march on Washington against healthcare reform yesterday, Allana
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracer Graves View Post
Not sure if there's a topic on this already, but looking at all the 9-12'ers today made me want to make sure people understood what the terms 'Nazi' and 'Fascism' actually describe:

Fascism Anyone? The 14 characteristics of Fascism
That's actually rather scary.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Not ironically, almost every government on earth meets a number of those criteria, and the Communist regimes of the (former) USSR, North Korea and China meet every single one of them. A case could also be made that Iran meets them today.

The most fundamental distinction of Fascist government is that it is usually brutally authoritarian and repressive. The devices it uses to maintain that authority - usually paranoia, fear-mongering and militant nationalism - are merely means to an end and are not the sole province of fascism.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:10 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau View Post
the Communist regimes of the (former) USSR, North Korea and China meet every single one of them.
No... they fail (faied) to comply with point 8, as religion is (was) frowned upon by them.

Otherwise I agree with your post
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet View Post
No... they fail (faied) to comply with point 8, as religion is (was) frowned upon by them.

Otherwise I agree with your post
More than one political observer has made the point that the doctrine of Communism substituted for religion. That's how Lenin designed it.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:16 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau View Post
More than one political observer has made the point that the doctrine of Communism substituted for religion. That's how Lenin designed it.
You could say the same of any political ideology. They're all belief systems.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:16 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet View Post
The march on Washington against healthcare reform yesterday, Allana
I was in DC yesterday evening and figured traffic would be a mess because of the protests, but it was like any other Saturday and I didn't see a single protester. Then again I was on K street and didn't venture down to the mall but I have a hard time believing the crowd numbers being touted by the teabaggers. They must have piled back in their buses and head out early for a monster truck rally somewhere. Still, with that many Fox News viewers all in one place at one time, where's a stray meteor when you need one? The mean IQ of the country could have gotten a nice little uptick.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:18 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Chip Midnight View Post
I was in DC yesterday evening and figured traffic would be a mess because of the protests, but it was like any other Saturday and I didn't see a single protester. Then again I was on K street and didn't venture down to the mall but I have a hard time believing the crowd numbers being touted by the teabaggers. They must have piled back in their buses and head out early for a monster truck rally somewhere. Still, with that many Fox News viewers all in one place at one time, where's a stray meteor when you need one? The mean IQ of the country could have gotten a nice little uptick.
Oh, I doubt the numbers too Chip.

Two million my hairy arse....
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:23 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Oh, I doubt the numbers too Chip.

Two million my hairy arse....
There's no way in hell it was anywhere near that many. I didn't see the crowd but you don't get two million people in DC and not have it snarl traffic.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:35 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet View Post
You could say the same of any political ideology. They're all belief systems.
This is bickering over nits, but the point of singularity here is doctrine. Not all conservatives are redneck assholes. Not all liberals are flaming pansies. However, among Wahabi adherents as one example, variation from doctrine is not just frowned upon. It is punishable by death.

Just as it was in Germany in the 30s-40s. Just as it is today in North Korea.

It's more than mere "belief systems". It's rigidity of doctrine.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:37 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet View Post
The march on Washington against healthcare reform yesterday, Allana
Or in other words, self-lobotomized morons who consider things that make Glen Beck teary to be facts.

My kid had a friend visit yesterday who seems to have it mostly together but was "embarrassed" to say where her parents were, but it was in D.C. After assuring her that I'd never make fun of someone for their beliefs she confessed that they'd gone to that Fox News orchestrated "astroturf" gathering. The friend had known from last year's mock elections in school that there was a partisan difference between her and my kid and expected that I'd be therefore be derisive of her parents' asshattery. I explained to her that it was expected in the realm of political opinion for people to have broad differences with neither being necessarily "right" or "wrong". Except I was lying.

With the recent "death panel" crap, I'd been explaining to my kid that an uninformed opinion - especially a willfully uninformed opinion - has no validity. I could launch into diatribe, but Phil Plait did a far better job than I can in "The Mainstreaming of Crazy":
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If I sound angry, then, yeah, I am. Iím tired of ignorance held up as inspiration, where vicious anti-intellectualism is considered a positive trait, and where uninformed opinion is displayed as fact.
The rest of his essay is considerably more sober, but I am beginning to share his dire frustration.

When someone tries to discuss something - no matter how coolly - based on the premise that the House Bill on Health Care Reform prescribes "Death Panels" there is simply nowhere to go. They have accepted - as a matter of unevidenced faith - the existence of an absurd falsehood. You can't disabuse them of the notion because they don't even know why they believe what they believe and people never take well to the suggestion that they have uncritically accepted a outright lie as fact.

After further discussion of this matter with my daughter (after her friend had gone), my kid noted that her friend's parents attend the nearby church of mind pollution. I decline to put a sect name on this particular church because I'm beginning to feel those labels are not particularly useful and risk painting non-loons with an overbroad brush. The local Church of Mind Pollution is one of those cradle-to-grave providers of all personal services that encourage willful ignorance, lack of thinking -critical or otherwise - and mix politics with god in direct, blatant violation of the IRS tax-exemption statutes. I've written about this particular church before in the context of another friend of my daughter's whose previously reasonable parents fell into the Church of Mind Pollution through the side door and over a period of years have become so utterly involved in the church that we can longer have a coherent conversation. I don't mean a conversation about god or morality or politics, but about anything; it is as if we live on different planets. My kid misses her friend from long ago but the friend is only interested in talking about Jesus now which my kid isn't antagonist toward, she's just not interested. I only wish I was using hyperbole in these anecdotes.

What the hell does this have to do with Tracer's point on fascism? Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights, Identification of Enemies as a Unifying Cause, Controlled Mass Media, Religion and Government are Intertwined, Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts. This is happening in my own damn backyard with no state action at all and I have no idea if anything can be done about it.

As has been noted in other threads at SLU, Churches of Mind Pollution are the fastest (and nearly only) growing Churches in the US. Let me avoid some confusion, I call these entities Churches because that is what they call themselves. I don't consider them churches but rather business that use the trappings of religion to cheat people out of their lives; they have more in common with Jim Jones than they do Presbyterians. Unless you belong to a self-labeled "church" as I have described, I am not talking about your religion at all and apologize for the verbal confusion used by these predatory businesses.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:42 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau View Post
This is bickering over nits, but the point of singularity here is doctrine. Not all conservatives are redneck assholes. Not all liberals are flaming pansies. However, among Wahabi adherents as one example, variation from doctrine is not just frowned upon. It is punishable by death.

Just as it was in Germany in the 30s-40s. Just as it is today in North Korea.

It's more than mere "belief systems". It's rigidity of doctrine.
I see where you are coming from Cindy....

However I would say that the usurption and manipulation of established faiths, as in say, Franco's Spain (The appeals to god and country) are a different animal from replacing religion with a political doctrine, as in Soviet Russia.

It's the whole "God is on our side" bullshit.

Do you see my point?
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:54 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet View Post
I see where you are coming from Cindy....

However I would say that the usurption and manipulation of established faiths, as in say, Franco's Spain (The appeals to god and country) are a different animal from replacing religion with a political doctrine, as in Soviet Russia.

It's the whole "God is on our side" bullshit.

Do you see my point?
I see your point, but I don't think you see mine. Stalin's Communism (as well as Mao's and Jong Il's) usurped established faith with their doctrine of the State and punished the laggards with imprisonment, execution or expulsion.

See also: Gulag.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:02 AM   #18 (permalink)
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No I do see your point Cindy....

But to my mind
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8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -- Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
Is pretty specific.

as an example, the Soviets would have had to have used the Russian Orthodox Church as a tool for manipulation to comply with this, so saying Communist Totalitarian states comply (or complied) with this point is a misnomer.

The RussianOrthodox faith remained the most popular faith in Russia, albeit underground, as evinced by its rapid resurgence after the fall of Communism there.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:14 AM   #19 (permalink)
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as an example, the Soviets would have had to have used the Russian Orthodox Church as a tool for manipulation to comply with this, so saying Communist Totalitarian states comply (or complied) with this point is a misnomer.

The RussianOrthodox faith remained the most popular faith in Russia, albeit underground, as evinced by its rapid resurgence after the fall of Communism there.
Stalin reinstated the Russian Orthodox Church when it became politically expedient for him to do so, and in return he gained the political support of the church. It was never about stamping out religion. It was about stamping out a competing power until such time as it could be turned into an asset.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:22 AM   #20 (permalink)
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No... they fail (faied) to comply with point 8, as religion is (was) frowned upon by them.

Otherwise I agree with your post
I agree

While it is often said that Communism replaces religion, that really isn't the case. They preferred Atheism but it wasn't really successfully enforced.

Really the reason they were anti-religion was that
-It was what Marx said they should be ( mainly Leninist)
-It was an institution that organized people separate from the party, and thus needed to be discouraged (mainly Stalinist)



Also -

Religion didn't play a bigger role during Mussolini's Italy than it did in the preceding government.

Nor in Nazi Germany.

Nor Imperial Japan.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:24 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Stalin reinstated the Russian Orthodox Church when it became politically expedient for him to do so, and in return he gained the political support of the church. It was never about stamping out religion. It was about stamping out a competing power until such time as it could be turned into an asset.
I believe this is true - after such time had passed as the Church was seen as something less than the Party in everyday life.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:26 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I never really bought into the whole

"Totalitarian Governments are all Fascist" side of the definition of fascism idea.

----------------------------

I am more from the side that would say -

Fascism was one government. Then there were several other governments that followed similar ideals/methods.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:37 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Mussolini's Italy

Mussolini's Italy would have only scored a 10/14


1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Yes Definitely


2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to 'look the other way' or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Yes, but only by the regime.


3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -- The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Yes, Anti-communist


4. Supremacy of the Military -- Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Yes, The whole - restore the glory of Rome idea

5. Rampant Sexism -- The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and antigay legislation and national policy.

No, not any more than was typical for the time. In fact the fascists advocated giving the vote to women.

6. Controlled Mass Media -- Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or through sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common.

Yes.

7. Obsession with National Security -- Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Yes, but what else is this bigger military going to do. It wasn't an overwhelming situation before the war.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -- Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

No, The fascists did like to point to their rich cultural heritage, but there was no intertwining.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -- The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Yes, this was part and parcel of government.


10. Labor Power is Suppressed -- Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely or are severely suppressed.

No, Another part of their platform was Labor reforms.


11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

Definitely no, They were playing UP Italian culture. Although they did want it slanted to help with Nationalism.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses, and even forego civil liberties, in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

Yes, it was a Police State


13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions, and who use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Yes

14. Fraudulent Elections -- Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against (or even the assassination of) opposition candidates, the use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and the manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Yes
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:40 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colette Meiji View Post
I never really bought into the whole

"Totalitarian Governments are all Fascist" side of the definition of fascism idea.

----------------------------

I am more from the side that would say -

Fascism was one government. Then there were several other governments that followed similar ideals/methods.
I find this is an exclusively American idea... or at least predominantly.

Much like the "Nazi's were socialists" crap i hear from time to time
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:41 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I'd say the "Corporate Power" is the big one Colette.

Mussolini himself said that Fascism could easily be called Corporatism
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