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Eirik · 07-04-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet

In no way at all, a racist attack.

She mentioned an entire Ethnicity as being violent rapists. Even I haven't gone that far.

How about if someone replaces the word Yanomamo in her post with Somalians? Does it become racist then? Does it become racist if the word Yanomamo is replaced with Pakistanis? List goes on.

Hypatia Callisto · 07-04-2009, 03:53 PM

Witch-hunting among the Anthropologists

If you want to read a report from the esteemed evolutionary biologist John Tooby about the whole Tierney/Neel/Chagnon affair, do read it, it's enlightening reading.

And take everything Miss Catnap says with a liberal grain of salt

Lucifer Baphomet · 07-04-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eirik

She mentioned an entire Ethnicity as being violent rapists. Even I haven't gone that far.

How about if someone replaces the word Yanomamo in her post with Somalians? Does it become racist then? Does it become racist if the word Yanomamo is replaced with Pakistanis? List goes on.

Actually it was the Yanomamo she mentioned...

Probably the most studied people on earth because of their isolation until last century.

Anthropological studies of these tribes have shown their culture to be very violent.

Roughly a third of male deaths are caused by inter village warfare.

Domestic violence is institutionalised to the degree that after a woman is beaten by her husband, she will shave her head, and show off the injuries (He cares so much about me he did this)

If a series of studies over some 60 years said that Somalians or Pakistanis commonly beat their wives and raped them, then no it wouldnt be racist to say the somalian or pakistani people had integrated matrimonial rape and abuse into their culture.

We do, however know about shit like pakistani honour killings, and that subject is brought up often.

Bringing that up, for instance is no more racist than the Yanomamo rape and abuse.

Eirik · 07-04-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet

Actually it was the Yanomamo she mentioned...

Probably the most studied people on earth because of their isolation until last century.

Anthropological studies of these tribes have shown their culture to be very violent.

Roughly a third of male deaths are caused by inter village warfare.

Domestic violence is institutionalised to the degree that after a woman is beaten by her husband, she will shave her head, and show off the injuries (He cares so much about me he did this)

If a series of studies over some 60 years said that Somalians or Pakistanis commonly beat their wives and raped them, then no it wouldnt be racist to say the somalian or pakistani people had integrated matrimonial rape and abuse into their culture.

We do, however know about shit like pakistani honour killings, and that subject is brought up often.

Bringing that up, for instance is no more racist than the Yanomamo rape and abuse.

Just checking then, since I thank you for your explanation but still disagree with the going definition of racism on SLU.

Is any of this racist?

Google translation from a Swedish article:

Quote:

Many indications that the figures are the same as in the early 1990s: about half of the suspected rapists in the criminal statistics, are immigrants or have at least one immigrant parent.

Or this?

Family of teen Muslim invited men to rape her - Times Online

Or?

March to the Right You Penguins!: Proof: Blacks Commit More Crimes

Or?

Muslim Gang Rapes and the Left Blames Us

They're all based on real facts and mysoginistic crimes, just like your stories of these tribal societies.

Lucifer Baphomet · 07-04-2009, 04:12 PM

Newspaper articles reporting isolated incidents, and right wing blogs don't carry the same weight as over 60 years of anthropological studies.

Heres something for you to mull over Eirik..

The very anthropologists who have studied these people, and documented the violence are the selfsame people who advocate protecting their culture

They have no axe to grind against them

Eirik · 07-04-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet

Newspaper articles reporting isolated incidents, and rifght wing blogs don't carry the same weight as over 60 years of anthropological studies.

They're saying the exact same things though.

"culture X is violent and rapist"

The only difference is the X.

When does something stop being an isolated incident and move into statistics then?

Surreal · 07-04-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypatia Callisto

Witch-hunting among the Anthropologists

If you want to read a report from the esteemed evolutionary biologist John Tooby about the whole Tierney/Neel/Chagnon affair, do read it, it's enlightening reading.

And take everything Miss Catnap says with a liberal grain of salt

Awwww.. reading is hard and interferes with my already hardened biases.

Cindy Claveau · 07-04-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eirik

I love how the liberals on this forum are allowed to attack other people's roots.

But that as a small aside, hypocrits. I guess this forum is the only place where the supposed nazis are the ones merely defending their own ancestry and it's the liberals being racist.

Anyway, minimum requirements for a perfect society imo:

1) Cultural and economical protectionism
2) Small scale
3) Large living space

What's this all have to do with paper labels like "liberal"? I'm hardly a rubber-stamp liberal politically, but I will toss this one into the list of things that make for a free, open society:

Freedom from superstition.

Medieval Europe (my ancestors) burned thousands of witches at the stake during the Dark Ages and perpetrated some of the most heinous atrocities in history against native peoples they encountered. I will never excuse that, but the fact is that their culture offered far more than merely violence against things they didn't understand.

Just like it can lead modern witch-hunting in places like Kenya, Sierra Leone and South Africa.

There may be a lot of positive things to recommend a culture, but I fail to see how violence and atrocity spawned by superstition should ever be one of them, regardless of the national origin. That includes places like Africa, South America, Borneo ...

Witch-Hunts: A Thing of the Past? Witches, Black Magic and Penis Snatchers | Suite101.com

BBC News | AFRICA | Congo witch-hunt's child victims

Quote:

Congolese children are being accused of witchcraft and made scapegoats for the country's many ills. Jeremy Vine reports from Kinshasa on the gruesome business of exorcism.

... and even secular America can be subject to this kind of dangerous nonsense.

Sarah Palin Linked Her Electoral Success to Prayer of Kenyan Witch Hunter | Election 2008 | AlterNet

Enlightened secular societies have a far better chance of forming working, benevolent governments than do primitive, superstitious ones. Then again, sometimes it's a matter of scale - it's easy to keep peace in a group of under 100 people. Once you get into the millions you'd better offer something better than superstitious fear, because that dark path tends to bend around on yourself.

Lucifer Baphomet · 07-04-2009, 04:45 PM

OK Eirik..

Lets look at your sources in sequence..

The first, A times article on honour crimes written by an asian.

I'na already said to you that yes, honour crimes exist, and theyre wrong, and yes institutionalised in traditional Pakistani culture.

The second... a pile of right wing bile on a blog... pile of shite Eirik, I'm sorry, but it is.

The third.. a wingnut who on other pages trashes evolution, and villifies atheists as immoral.

You have one credible source, and its from an asian trying to better his own culture.

You have two right wing wing nuts gathering in disparate information in a desperate attemt to validate their knuckle dragging worldview.

If you cant see the difference between that and the systematic study of a people for over half a century, I don't know what to say to you.

Surreal · 07-04-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eirik

When does something stop being an isolated incident and move into statistics then?

Umm... when it's not an isolated incident and is an entire culture?

Eirik · 07-04-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet

If you cant see the difference between that and the systematic study of a people for over half a century, I don't know what to say to you.

Except that the systematic study of immigrants in Europe is not allowed by the multicultural elite.

As shown many times. Like when a study here was ordered by the government by a reputed anthropologist to research if there was a link between ethnicity and crime. When the study proved that, yes, there was a link. The government decided to outlaw the study, censor it, and lock it up behind locked doors far away from the public. This was almost 10 years ago now. I remember because I was still in high school, and I would just be allowed to vote for the first time a few months after that incident came out into the news. That's when I vowed never to vote for a centrist or leftist party, because they made it clear they support censorship.

So don't claim for one moment that it's not a systematic occurence simply because there aren't any numbers. They're actively hidden by the government.

Cindy Claveau · 07-04-2009, 04:50 PM

Translation: I have no data, therefore it's a conspiracy.

Eirik · 07-04-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy Claveau

Translation: I have no data, therefore it's a conspiracy.

WRONG.

There IS data.

Quote:

a study here was ordered by the government by a reputed anthropologist to research if there was a link between ethnicity and crime. When the study proved that, yes, there was a link. The government decided to outlaw the study, censor it, and lock it up behind locked doors far away from the public.

The chick later wrote a book about it AFTER she emigrated to the Netherlands to avoid Belgian persecution.

Joshua Nightshade · 07-04-2009, 04:55 PM

Quoting yourself doesn't suddenly manifest data.

I would love to see a reference to that study on someplace other than ihatemuslims.com, since I'm sure it'd be extremely amusing to see how you've misrepresented the situation to validate your own bias.

Lucifer Baphomet · 07-04-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eirik

Except that the systematic study of immigrants in Europe is not allowed by the multicultural elite.

As shown many times. Like when a study here was ordered by the government by a reputed anthropologist to research if there was a link between ethnicity and crime. When the study proved that, yes, there was a link. The government decided to outlaw the study, censor it, and lock it up behind locked doors far away from the public. This was almost 10 years ago now. I remember because I was still in high school, and I would just be allowed to vote for the first time a few months after that incident came out into the news. That's when I vowed never to vote for a centrist or leftist party, because they made it clear they support censorship.

So don't claim for one moment that it's not a systematic occurence simply because there aren't any numbers. They're actively hidden by the government.

Right.... so the study by the Centre for Social Cohesion which pointed out the problems in the UK's Asian community regarding honour crimes didn't happen then?

It's cited in your first link, Eirik.

Cindy Claveau · 07-04-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

Quoting yourself doesn't suddenly manifest data.

I would love to see a reference to that study on someplace other than ihatemuslims.com, since I'm sure it'd be extremely amusing to see how you've misrepresented the situation to validate your own bias.

Eirik · 07-04-2009, 05:15 PM

Source, interview with Marion van San, the person in question regarding her work, in the Dutch paper magazine Elsevier back in June 2002.

Here's a machine translated copy of the text. If I had any reason to believe it would be actually read and not just ignored because I posted it, I would bother translating it properly, but google is good enough for SLU as it stands.

Quote:

Marion Van San, getergd crimonoloog.

The labyrinth of political intrigue made her sick. But Marion Van San continued its investigation of immigrant youth in the juvenile through.
Meanwhile, there is a controversial new study on the shelf. "The censorship of politically correct thinking is unimaginable sadness."

Interview by Hugo Camps in Elsevier.

Criminologists and doctorate in sociology from San Marion is not assured.
The Belgian researcher at the Erasmus University has experienced how uninterested the police omspringt with problems such as disadvantaged, asylum seekers, migrant juvenile with signature. "After the hype Fortuyn is Den Haag, sooner or later, but again the order of the day. As the political caste in Brussels and Paris for many years to bury remains stoic in the order of the day.
The signal that Le Pen and Dewinter issue is not taken seriously.
A cynical man would be. "What remains is the memory of Fortuyn about? I am afraid not much. Every now and then a ritual rain dance maybe. Little is as tough as a political agenda.
The citizen is trained in forgotten and forgiven.
Soon the cameras as the final burial of Fortuyn in Provensano have registered will be thousands of Dutch people who had no holiday might think: Italy, which seems a bit this summer. The grave of Professor Pim as trip. But this latest upsurge of emotion will be far from the ideas are.

Fortuyn was just buried and the public debate about his death has shriveled to the question: who has demonized him, yes.
First he was ignored and then, when his followers ever found to grow, he was demonized. In the beginning you had to be anything Fortuyn claimed.
While everyone knew that the mugging in Rotterdam quasi exclusive trademark of Moroccan and Antillean youngsters.
As Fortuyn also said. But you could not say.
The censorship of politically correct thinking is an unimaginable sadness.

Belgium is another step forward with the sanitary cordon against the Vlaams Blok.
The result is that not only Filip Dewinter in verdomhoek is, but also the themes that touch the living society are taboo.

Marion Van San promoted in 1998 by Kees Schuyt at the University of Amsterdam on a thesis about crime in Antillean youth. The title of her thesis was provocative: "Steal and Stabbing.

The politically correct intelligentsia fell on her. "I examined the heavy violence in Antillean youth between 14 and 17 years. What was bad for me, was the finding that the mothers of the violence their children could understand and in some cases even adopted and encouraged.
Antillian mothers are almost sacred, and in my research they were literally on their pedestal. "

'No, the results of the investigation by politics never arrested. My publication was seen as an unwelcome message. Scientists are still few illusions about the flow of their thinking to the political center.
We are happy if the media want to devote some attention to the social relevance of research. "

She has just finished a study on crime in Yugoslavians in the Netherlands.
About the likely response would not speculate. "It seems that most criminal Yugoslav war in the Balkans as an applicant came to the Netherlands. It is only an initial survey. Now we must formulate some real research. "

In the approach of the far-right crime among immigrants, acidification of the society and other modern scourges, Belgium is the champion of schizophrenia and hypocrisy, had also Marion Van San.

Over two years ago, she was by Justice Minister Marc Verwilghen asked to investigate the proportion of immigrant youth in the juvenile. They verzeilde in a labyrinth of political intrigue and was soon by all politically correct is demonized. If they do not know how deep the divide between citizens and government can be.

"During the elections had Verwilghen himself with the statement that, as minister he would be an investigation would be" to the relationship between ethnicity and crime. "
Ethnicity is a loaded concept in Belgium.

Who in his words, suggests that he wants skulls lights.

After his swearing was Verwilghen geïnterpelleerd immediately by the opposition, how fed up with that research?

I was asked by the Minister a proposal of research to resign. No sooner said than done.
In the first part of the investigation, I would look at the figures, the second part would deal with the perception of crime in two old neighborhoods, in part three, I would like to study an offender car.
So nuanced brought Verwilghen not: he stayed for the parliament that an investigation would come to the relationship between ethnicity and crime.

"Follow, I was by the science and a number of political parties declared persona non grata.

They talked about a study on the edge of racism. I was half Filip Dewinter put down.
While the investigation was very innocent. In short, I found a differential involvement of immigrant youth in juvenile delinquency.
For anything to as Moroccan boys scored two times higher than Turkish boys. The Eastern Europeans were particularly active in property crime.
Asian young people in the crime statistics a blank sheet. In short, I showed that crime is no uniformity.
And it broke the cliche of the prevailing public opinion that aangevuurd by Dewinter, to that time always had crime of migrant youth.

Marion Van San could know where they began. The taboo on asylum seekers, juvenile delinquency in immigrant neighborhoods and the lack of integration lust in Belgium in cast concrete. 'Figures on crime among immigrant youth were there, but they should not be indicated. In the eighties forbade the then Prime Minister Martens each numerical publication on this sensitive and ideologically charged issues.

I knew that the police in possession of statistics, but it made me sweat and tears to get our hands on this scientific material.
I was on all sides opposed. Prominent scientists at the Belgian universities, the first for me to shoot. Perhaps that they themselves passed and felt even more from ideological agoraphobia.

Gradually it became clear that Minister Verwilghen was increasingly reluctant to see the results of research to present. No excuse was crazy.
The attitude was unheard Verwilghen cowardly.
I had learned from the commotion surrounding the statements of Jacques Wallage after a report on asylum seekers in Groningen that he would not freely give.
I requested a presentation of my research and a book.
Verwilghen was under pressure from the press by the knees, though the presentation and a damper should be.

The demonization was growing stronger. San Marion was sick. "I dared not lift more, sat anxiously in the cafe. Yes, I am a couple of times threatened.
Still get the phone off the plug when I go to sleep. It lasted six months before I was back on top.
It was a Kafkaesque task, another word is not, she says again whole fight.
The legendary guerrilla between the party and friends Verhofstadt Verwilghen - which remains continues - caused ghost riders on the road.

The topadviseur of Guy Verhofstadt, Professor Brice the Ruyver, also appeared to interfere with the investigation. During dinner he said to me: "I have given you the command because I my colleagues at the University is not awarded." Subsequently, he made every effort to my work boycott. Indeed! The Ruyver wanted me liquidate.
Behind the backs of Verwilghen he tried to change my job description. Why?
Maybe as you say, because the intermediate Verhofstadt and Verwilghen been cold war. It is inconceivable that a topadviseur of the Prime Minister, a survey of the main obstacles in society frustrates.
It went so far as to the gendarmerie he played under a hat for me the figures and statistics to remember. After research, I of The Ruyver no longer heard: he is now afraid that I have given a booklet opendoe. "

She was so against the government said, you should research as a way to debate. But politics was not. "After the presentation of my report was all stiff lips together - Justice Minister Verwilghen the most. Everyone is silent about it as a grave.
Purple, the investigation made taboo.
The result is that the only party with the only winners again the Vlaams Blok is. Again it was politically correct thinking a nuanced approach to the migrant problem in the road.

It is also cheap to keep cursing at the Vlaams Blok. Like the messenger responsible for the abscess of the multicultural society. "

Arilynn · 07-04-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

As we found that an unselected sample of delinquent adolescents show a great number of psychiatric disorders, we suggest that psychiatric screening of delinquent adolescents should be done systematically. The predictive value of psychiatric assessment and subsequent treatment in delinquent adolescents should be investigated by future, prospective research.

- "A Descriptive Survey of Flemish Delinquent Adolescents," R. Vermeiren, A. De Celippele, and D. DeBoutte, Journal of Adolescence, Vol. 23, Issue 3, June 2000, pp. 277-285.

.

Joshua Nightshade · 07-04-2009, 05:21 PM

Curious why you didn't provide a link, again, for that article.

Googling the name of the journalist returns this website.

hugo

I'm sure I can trust the integrity of his work. Geocities will never die!

Joshua Nightshade · 07-04-2009, 05:24 PM

And the publication in question:

Elsevier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Parent organisation links to weapons industry

An editorial in the medical journal The Lancet in September 2005 sharply criticized the journal's owner and publisher, Reed Elsevier, for its participation in the international arms trade.[16] Specifically, Reed Exhibitions organized the Defence Systems and Equipment International Exhibition (DSEi), a large arms fair in the U.K. The authors, appealing to the Hippocratic oath called for the publisher to divest itself of all business interests that threaten human, and especially civilian, health and well-being.[17]

In the March 2007 issue of the The Lancet, leading medical centers including the UK Royal College of Physicians urged Reed Elsevier to sever weapons ties. Doctors spoke out against Reed's role in the involvement of the organizing of exhibitions for the arms trade.[18] Reed Elsevier’s chief executive responded in June 2007 with a written statement agreeing to do so [19], welcomed by authors of the petition,[20] announcing that it would sell the part of the company which handled military trade shows. The sale was completed in May 2008[21].

Chaos, Solitons and Fractals

There has been some recent controversy over the journal, Chaos, Solitons and Fractals. There is speculation that the editor-in-chief, M. El Naschie, is misusing his power to publish his work, without peer review. The journal has published 322 papers with El Naschie as author since 1993. The last issue in December 2008 featured 5 of his papers. The controversy has been covered extensively in the blogosphere.[22] According to the journal's website, El Naschie was replaced as editor-in-chief beginning January, 2009.[23]

Fake journals

At a 2009 court case in Australia where Merck & Co. is being sued by a user of Vioxx, the plaintiff alleged that Merck had paid Elsevier to publish the Australasian Journal of Bone and Joint Medicine, which had the appearance of being a peer-reviewed academic journal but in fact contained only articles favourable to Merck drugs.[24][25][26][27] Merck has described the Australasian Journal of Bone and Joint Medicine as a "complimentary publication", denied claims that articles within it were ghost written by Merck, and stated that the articles were all reprinted from peer-reviewed medical journals.[28] In May 2009, Elsevier released a statement by Michael Hansen regarding the Australasian Journal of Bone and Joint Medicine Journal, conceding that these were "sponsored article compilation publications, on behalf of pharmaceutical clients, that were made to look like journals and lacked the proper disclosures." The statement further acknowledges that this "was an unacceptable practice."[29] Also in May 2009, The Scientist reports that according to an Elsevier spokesperson, there were five further sponsored publications that "were put out by their Australia office and bore the Excerpta Medica imprint from 2000 to 2005," namely the "Australasian Journal of General Practice, the Australasian Journal of Neurology, the Australasian Journal of Cardiology, the Australasian Journal of Clinical Pharmacy, the Australasian Journal of Cardiovascular Medicine".[30] Here, Excerpta Medica is a "strategic medical communications agency" run by Elsevier, according to the imprint's web page.[31]

detrius · 07-04-2009, 05:25 PM

I love how the guy who wants to kick every Muslim out of Flanders and advocated for the de-Wallonification of Brussels feels persecuted when someone points out that tribal societies aren't composed of saints.

This thread delivers.

Eirik · 07-04-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

Curious why you didn't provide a link, again, for that article.

Because it comes from a paper magazine. I had it cached on my hard disk together with a thousand or so other articles. It used to be mirrorered at Politics.be on this link: http://www.politics.be/modules.php?o...tid=104&page=1

But it doesn't work anymore.

Quote:

Googling the name of the journalist returns this website.

hugo

Wow. So that means he's from the old generation that existed before the internet and who was still taught journalistic integrity by actually working on paper magazines. Awesome.

He's a fucking old journalist. Not a goddamn web designer. When was that website made anyway?

Besides, he's just the interviewer, not the inverviewee. Just proving you didn't pay any attention. Marion van San, the sociologist/criminologist is the one that matters.

Joshua Nightshade · 07-04-2009, 05:31 PM

Islam in Europe: Belgium: Asylum seekers

Quote:

The Belgian Interior Minister Patrick Dewael (Flemish liberal) and his Flemish counterpart Marino Keulen (liberal) have commissioned a new report to find out how many people are staying in Belgium illegally.

The work has been entrusted to the Belgian sociologist and criminologist Marion Van San, who will do the job together with two colleagues at the Erasmus University in Rotterdam (The Netherlands).

The sociologist has been asked to find out how many people are staying in Belgium illegally, how they arrived here, what their motives are and how they live.

The team will also examine whether the accession of new member states to the European Union has triggered a new influx of illegals.

The Belgian ministers also want to know how often illegals deal with the police and in connection with which kinds of crimes this happens.

The Belgian-Dutch team is also looking at who provides help, shelter and support for illegals and in which way this happens.

So far the scientists got interviewers to speak with 120 families of people staying in the country illegally. The research involves people from Antwerp, Ghent (East Flanders) and Brussels.

The interviewers have the same nationality as the illegals and as a result were able to contact these people more easily via pubs and non profit organisations.

The report should be ready by the spring.

The decision to involve criminologist Marion Van San has raised an eyebrow in certain quarters. In 2001 the scientist examined the crime share immigrant youngsters had in the total crime statistics.

At the time several politicians were unhappy with the way this report dealt with the issue.

Wonder why when she's seemingly handled these issues so gracefully before.

Caring mothers and their 'innocent' sons: On justifying the criminal behavior of CuraÃ§aoan youths in The NetherlandsÂ =Â Sur la justification du comportement criminel des jeunes de CuraÃ§ao aux Pays Bas

Quote:

For quite a few years, Curaçaon youngsters have been causing serious crime problems in the Netherlands. Researchers have mainly been occupied with protracting the nature and prevalence of crime within this group. No study has been conducted so far in which Curaçaon perpetrators are interviewed about the meaning of their behavior. In the study on which this contribution is based, attention is given to the ways in which Curaçaon boys talk about their behavior and the ways in which they justify it. In addition attention is paid to the influence of 'significant others' - i.e. their mothers - on the criminal behavior of the boys. Interviews were taken with sixty boys, half of which had already come into contact with the police whereas the other half had not. Thirty mothers were also interviewed. The main conclusion of the study is that the youngsters, as well as their mothers, justify delinquent behavior. The boys tend to justify delinquent behavior in similar ways even if they did not actually engage in crime. The article shows how this can be accounted for.

Cindy Claveau · 07-04-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eirik

He's a fucking old journalist. Not a goddamn web designer. When was that website made anyway?

If it isn't on Wikipedia, it didn't happen.

Joshua Nightshade · 07-04-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eirik

Because it comes from a paper magazine. I had it cached on my hard disk together with a thousand or so other articles. It used to be mirrorered at Politics.be on this link: http://www.politics.be/modules.php?o...tid=104&page=1

But it doesn't work anymore.

Wow. So that means he's from the old generation that existed before the internet and who was still taught journalistic integrity by actually working on paper magazines. Awesome.

He's a fucking old journalist. Not a goddamn web designer. When was that website made anyway?

Besides, he's just the interviewer, not the inverviewee. Just proving you didn't pay any attention. Marion van San, the sociologist/criminologist is the one that matters.

It makes no difference. In searching through google to make your argument for you, after several hundred results and me trolling through four forums, seven blogs and countless other citations I can come to the following conclusions:

1) I can't find any documentation of the study itself. Only one article, the aforementioned interview, of one of the people involved (who is a criminologist, not a cultural anthropologist) complaining about her work being politicked. There are several rebuttals from people involved in commissioning the study complaining that she handled it badly and that's why it was removed, not the results. I would think if it was as you said then people would be all over that, reprinting it as evidence that the brown people ruin the world. The one interview with this woman was printed in the aformentioned potentially skeevy journal.

2) Being unable to find any evidence of said study, that hasn't stopped it from being brought up numerous times by bigoted individuals using it as validation that "they're right." No discussions about it anywhere else or its contents, just a bunch of attempts to do what you're doing with it.

So mark me incredulous, and unimpressed.

07-04-2009, 03:53 PM	#77 (permalink)
Hypatia Callisto is a pussy. lickin' ur status Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,698 My Mood: Blog Entries: 2	Witch-hunting among the Anthropologists If you want to read a report from the esteemed evolutionary biologist John Tooby about the whole Tierney/Neel/Chagnon affair, do read it, it's enlightening reading. And take everything Miss Catnap says with a liberal grain of salt __________________ "To begin with," said the Cat, "a dog's not mad. You grant that?" "I suppose so," said Alice. "Well, then," the Cat went on, "you see, a dog growls when it's angry, and wags its tail when it's pleased. Now I growl when I'm pleased, and wag my tail when I'm angry. Therefore I'm mad." "I call it purring, not growling," said Alice. "Call it what you like," said the Cat.

07-04-2009, 04:12 PM	#80 (permalink)
Lucifer Baphomet Pampers Io Zenophile Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Darkmere Posts: 12,227 My Mood: Business: Radio Free Darkmere Awards: 1	Newspaper articles reporting isolated incidents, and right wing blogs don't carry the same weight as over 60 years of anthropological studies. Heres something for you to mull over Eirik.. The very anthropologists who have studied these people, and documented the violence are the selfsame people who advocate protecting their culture They have no axe to grind against them Last edited by Lucifer Baphomet; 07-04-2009 at 04:17 PM.

07-04-2009, 05:25 PM	#96 (permalink)
detrius Senior Member notorious subversive Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Germany Posts: 2,234 My Mood:	I love how the guy who wants to kick every Muslim out of Flanders and advocated for the de-Wallonification of Brussels feels persecuted when someone points out that tribal societies aren't composed of saints. This thread delivers. __________________ "V Pravde net izvestiy, v Izvestiyakh net pravdy."

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07-04-2009, 04:45 PM	#84 (permalink)
Lucifer Baphomet Pampers Io Zenophile Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Darkmere Posts: 12,227 My Mood: Business: Radio Free Darkmere Awards: 1	OK Eirik.. Lets look at your sources in sequence.. The first, A times article on honour crimes written by an asian. I'na already said to you that yes, honour crimes exist, and theyre wrong, and yes institutionalised in traditional Pakistani culture. The second... a pile of right wing bile on a blog... pile of shite Eirik, I'm sorry, but it is. The third.. a wingnut who on other pages trashes evolution, and villifies atheists as immoral. You have one credible source, and its from an asian trying to better his own culture. You have two right wing wing nuts gathering in disparate information in a desperate attemt to validate their knuckle dragging worldview. If you cant see the difference between that and the systematic study of a people for over half a century, I don't know what to say to you.

07-04-2009, 04:50 PM	#87 (permalink)
Cindy Claveau Cheap but never free "-ish" Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 12,465 My Mood: SL Join Date: May, 2005 Awards: 2	Translation: I have no data, therefore it's a conspiracy.

07-04-2009, 04:55 PM	#89 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	Quoting yourself doesn't suddenly manifest data. I would love to see a reference to that study on someplace other than ihatemuslims.com, since I'm sure it'd be extremely amusing to see how you've misrepresented the situation to validate your own bias.

07-04-2009, 05:21 PM	#94 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	Curious why you didn't provide a link, again, for that article. Googling the name of the journalist returns this website. hugo I'm sure I can trust the integrity of his work. Geocities will never die!

07-04-2009, 05:24 PM	#95 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	And the publication in question: Elsevier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Parent organisation links to weapons industry An editorial in the medical journal The Lancet in September 2005 sharply criticized the journal's owner and publisher, Reed Elsevier, for its participation in the international arms trade.[16] Specifically, Reed Exhibitions organized the Defence Systems and Equipment International Exhibition (DSEi), a large arms fair in the U.K. The authors, appealing to the Hippocratic oath called for the publisher to divest itself of all business interests that threaten human, and especially civilian, health and well-being.[17] In the March 2007 issue of the The Lancet, leading medical centers including the UK Royal College of Physicians urged Reed Elsevier to sever weapons ties. Doctors spoke out against Reed's role in the involvement of the organizing of exhibitions for the arms trade.[18] Reed Elsevier’s chief executive responded in June 2007 with a written statement agreeing to do so [19], welcomed by authors of the petition,[20] announcing that it would sell the part of the company which handled military trade shows. The sale was completed in May 2008[21]. Chaos, Solitons and Fractals There has been some recent controversy over the journal, Chaos, Solitons and Fractals. There is speculation that the editor-in-chief, M. El Naschie, is misusing his power to publish his work, without peer review. The journal has published 322 papers with El Naschie as author since 1993. The last issue in December 2008 featured 5 of his papers. The controversy has been covered extensively in the blogosphere.[22] According to the journal's website, El Naschie was replaced as editor-in-chief beginning January, 2009.[23] Fake journals At a 2009 court case in Australia where Merck & Co. is being sued by a user of Vioxx, the plaintiff alleged that Merck had paid Elsevier to publish the Australasian Journal of Bone and Joint Medicine, which had the appearance of being a peer-reviewed academic journal but in fact contained only articles favourable to Merck drugs.[24][25][26][27] Merck has described the Australasian Journal of Bone and Joint Medicine as a "complimentary publication", denied claims that articles within it were ghost written by Merck, and stated that the articles were all reprinted from peer-reviewed medical journals.[28] In May 2009, Elsevier released a statement by Michael Hansen regarding the Australasian Journal of Bone and Joint Medicine Journal, conceding that these were "sponsored article compilation publications, on behalf of pharmaceutical clients, that were made to look like journals and lacked the proper disclosures." The statement further acknowledges that this "was an unacceptable practice."[29] Also in May 2009, The Scientist reports that according to an Elsevier spokesperson, there were five further sponsored publications that "were put out by their Australia office and bore the Excerpta Medica imprint from 2000 to 2005," namely the "Australasian Journal of General Practice, the Australasian Journal of Neurology, the Australasian Journal of Cardiology, the Australasian Journal of Clinical Pharmacy, the Australasian Journal of Cardiovascular Medicine".[30] Here, Excerpta Medica is a "strategic medical communications agency" run by Elsevier, according to the imprint's web page.[31]

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