Richie Waves

VOA News - France Moves to Impose Ban on Burqa

I find it quite Ironic that the Righties are all \o/ about this... freedom of religion and all that..

must be god dam warm in the things though...

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Ceiri

This is such a difficult issue, IMO. On one hand, it's not right to tell women they can't wear a symbol of their religion. It violates the principles of religious freedoms. But on the other hand, if you don't ban them, then many women will be forced to wear them by their families and communities.

Either way some women's freedom is taken away.

Edit: If I were a legislator and had to make the choice, I guess I would err on the side of libertarianism and refuse to ban the burqa. Even if women are being forced to wear it, they ARE still adults and can make their own decisions. I don't like morality legislation in most cases.

Aimee Weber

In a perfect world there would be a law preventing a patriarch from forcing a woman into a burqa, but allowing women who wear burqas or anything else they choose as long as its of their own free will. The problem is that the greater and more overwhelming the religious oppression, the more likely women will consent to this kind of creepy abuse.

Sure, she doesn't have to wear the burka if she doesn't want to. But she will bring shame upon her family, she will be divorced and disowned, her children taken away, and she might even be subject to beatings or an "honor killing" ... but it's her choice (and they always seem to agree!)

No, France has it right. Nobody in their right mind would consent to this BS of their own free will, so I think it fitting to disregard any consent given by somebody with a proverbial gun to their head.

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Richie Waves

yea, side effect though.. if these men are so forcible about "their" women wearing burqas, wont they just force to not ever leave the house once the ban is imposed?


pretty sure i could have worded that better but rush rush!

Ceiri

Heh, the American Right is so consistent. Christian stuff = should be put into law. Muslim stuff = should be illegal.

Lucifer Baphomet

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Isabeau Imako

Strange that I have absolutely no 'problem' seeing women wearing veils or headscarves (don't really notice it), but I feel a small aversion (not good English I know- like a ick in the pit of my stomach...) when I see a woman in a burqa. It almost seems like a human being walking around in their own prison. It affronts my idea of personal freedom, I guess. I also dislike having interactions with any stranger (man or woman) whose face is covered/masked. Unless it's Siyu, of course or at a masked ball...

Having said this, I still would be against making it illigal. If you are a woman living here, wearing a burqa becomes a personal choice. Even if your family/religion is strongly influencing you, the laws are on your side, and so is the decision.

The best way to combat 'lack of freedom' should be by exemples of freedom of choice, no?

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Ceiri

I don't agree with that at all. I've met several Muslim women myself who WANT to wear the burqa (and do), of their own free will, and that's here in the USA where they definitely don't have to.

Lucifer Baphomet

http://www.freewebs.com/submission3/burka.jpg

Aimee Weber

No I understood completely.

And my answer is, maybe? But isn't that a form of abuse already in the lawbooks? You don't even have to be Muslim, if anybody locks their wives in the home, that's a conventional form of abuse right there.

Lo Jacobs

This is incredibly anti-Muslim, I think it's ridiculous. Orthodox Jewish women have to keep their heads covered too, is anyone banning that?

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Lucifer Baphomet

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2038/...f55cd5.jpg?v=0

Lucifer Baphomet

I'm putting the sexy back into burqa in this thread, BTW

Chip Midnight

I'm not sure I'd support a ban, but there's not an iota of doubt in my mind that the burqa is degrading to women because ALL patriarchal religious traditions, be they Muslim, Christian, Jewish or anything ese, are degrading to women in my opinion.

Lucifer Baphomet

http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0507/BURKAImage1.jpg

Joshua Nightshade

It's deliberately anti-Muslim and an affront to freedom of religious expression.

Aimee Weber

Absolutely. Many of these women probably say they DON'T want to drive, or work, or indulge in any freedom at all. They may even read about the penalties for women caught driving in Islamic countries and nod approvingly ... of their own free will.

What I'm trying to say is that that kind of mentality really only comes from oppressive upbringing bordering on brainwashing. Women raised in a free and open environment don't gravitate towards an Islamic lifestyle. "I'm not Muslim, I just like wearing this thing, and not being allowed to do anything."

That's some serious BDSM play and they don't get a safeword.

Joshua Nightshade

It's degrading and an affront to women and a disgusting practice.

It's still their right, and if you want to change it, this won't do that. It will only cause problems and the women will still be too scared to disobey their husbands and wear it anyway.

Aimee Weber

I have a Jewish friend at the dog park. She covers her head with a baseball cap.

I'm not seeing the similarities.

Lo Jacobs

Well okay, but Orthodox Jewish men have to look like this



so I am not sure who is getting the better part of the bargain.

Joshua Nightshade

There's no similarities between what Orthodox Jewish women are required to wear and a baseball cap either.

Come on Aimee, you live in freaking New York City for god's sake.

Incidentally I went to school with a girl from Iran who was rather devoutly Muslim as well as a lesbian (out to her family) who wore a burqa because she felt it was a symbol of her beliefs and heritage. I didn't agree with her, but it was her right, and nobody could act like it wasn't something she had forced on her when her parents had her girlfriend over for dinner all the time.

Aodhan McDunnough

Off on a minor tangent. The burqa is supposed to prevent men from getting tempted. Makes sense to me because arousal is not symmetrical. Men are easier aroused and need only visual stimuli. Women in general can "hold it in" much better.

The irony is when I last visited Thailand I spotted a woman, a mother I think, in a burqa in a McDonalds. What caught my attention was that despite the near-plainness and thoroughness of the dress she was still alluring. BTW, she wasn't even slim.

I guess middle eastern women are just so damned alluring that they have to be covered up.

Ceiri

Isn't a restrictive religious lifestyle always irrational on some level? People do irrational stuff. It doesn't mean we should make that stuff illegal.

I really don't see how this is any different than believing you should be a virgin at the marriage altar, for example, yet I don't see a lot of legislation to force women to have premarital sex.

Lucifer Baphomet

Isabeau Imako

For Lucifer - another sexy burqa pic.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/...10_468x850.jpg