Joshua Nightshade

Also, I thought you quit, again. So really, why the need to come by and always burn the bridges and insult people who'd rather see you here not flailing around insulting everyone who disagrees with your "strong opinions."

Psyke Phaeton

This seems to be a fair compromise. Half oppressed and half exposed. Life is all about compromises. I suggest we pass this idea onto the French government.*


* Besides it makes their asses easier to pinch! And the heels means they can't run away!

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Joshua Nightshade

Cris also never banned you for your opinion on anything, he banned you on how you acted. Like now.

Io Zeno

Yes, I'm sure, anyone reading my posts will consider me a total batshit lunatic, because you disagree with me, Mister Self Absorbed Personified.

I will say this for Vodka, it cuts out the bullshit. I have no desire to please you or anyone else.

I'm sick to death of this bullshit and handholding "aren't we all friends" crap while you, yes YOU Joshuah, wait for the moment to fucking stick a knife in people, you make me sick.

I can disagree with Surreal and still respect her, even if I'm drunk.

You make it a fucking drama, bannable offence, omg, you are EVOL shit.

I detest this shit.

I was lurking because of Luc but no more.

I would rather be SEALED IN A PIT OF MY OWN VOMIT, to quote Python, than to continue with this, Mother was right, just disappear, forever.

Joshua Nightshade

Scroll back to my post about you saying bullshit just to annoy people.

I think in some circles that's even qualified as trolling.

Psyke Phaeton

Io Zeno

And NO, Joshua will say different, you can say, this was Io's last post, for fucking real, forever, god strike me down, I mean it.

btw, I miss Mother.

Joshua Nightshade

I also wouldn't even know what that comment references, four years of vendettas to pull from is a lot, I don't know where to start. I'm certain though that it's a complete misrepresentation and totally inaccurate, but that won't stop you from saying it, much the same way you asserted (without apology or retraction) that I constantly accuse you of being an alcoholic to dismiss your opinions when you know that's not true, you've never said a word about it before then, nor have you ever complained about Cris or Lucifer or anyone else also making the same comments in just as much jest to you too.

Nobody I know thinks I've ever stabbed them in the back. I'm pretty upfront, if I'm gonna stab someone, they'll be facing me.

Edit to add: And as usual this has nothing to do with the discussion, but it's what you do; if someone disagrees with the way you rant and attack, you start pulling out shit from your file from years ago to try and intimidate them out of complaining about it.

Psyke Phaeton

Hang on, did I hear right? Is Io about to oppress herself?!?!?ellevnty!

Joshua Nightshade

For another week, just like last time she quit, for real, she means it, seriously.

CRIS NEEDS TO BURN SAGE ALREADY.

Joshua Nightshade

Incidentally when most people "quit," they either:

1 - Just quit without making a huge fucking spectacle about it
2 - Make a big "I HATE YOU ALL THREAD" and then leave.

I don't get why Io keeps doing the latter in threads that have nothing to do with it, or why she constantly has to drag down a discussion that's civil otherwise by cataloging every altercation she's had or watched someone else have with history going back to 1967 BECAUSE SHE REMEMBERS GODDAMNIT.

It's really tiring and disrespectful.

Hypatia Callisto

I miss all the fun while I am sleeping.

Anyway, since this seems to have strayed far from the original topic, its tiem for lolcats. This one seems more or less appropriate

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"To begin with," said the Cat, "a dog's not mad. You grant that?"

"I suppose so," said Alice.

"Well, then," the Cat went on, "you see, a dog growls when it's angry, and wags its tail when it's pleased. Now I growl when I'm pleased, and wag my tail when I'm angry. Therefore I'm mad."

"I call it purring, not growling," said Alice.

"Call it what you like," said the Cat.

Beezle Warburton

Let's send Io to France.

In a Burka.

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Hypatia Callisto

They are mostly isolated already. They can't communicate with men outside their families, and their interpretation of Islam is so restricted that they generally don't get a full education anyway.

Anyway, they do it to us in Saudi Arabia. Every Western woman has to wear Islamic dress - that means the full garb of abaya and hijab. Where's the outcry over that?

I agree with you, covering the skin with cloth is the best sun protection there is, but that's not the reason for the burqa. Also, it does nothing to cut down on rape. Afghanistan is ranking very high in the world for rape statistics. You're talking about a traditional dress in a country that has passed a law to legalise marital rape and where the orthodox harrasses, maims and even kills girls trying to get an education.

Legalized rape in Afghanistan - The Boston Globe

Afghanistan to change controversial 'rape' law - CNN.com

None of this is actually "Islamic", it's just a particular intepretation that one could say predates Islam itself. Most Muslims I have met are not ultraorthodox, in fact the ultraorthodox tend not to like associating with "heathens" like me. They don't tolerate me any more than I tolerate them.

I'm all for protecting the right to dress in Islamic style, provided it's moderate and those people believe in living in a tolerant society. I'm in no mood to protect the rights of the intolerant. I have a motto I tend to follow - I have no tolerance for the intolerant. I don't plan on changing that motto anytime soon.

Richie Waves

do not google with safe search off >.<;;;;;

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My lastfm

Oooh, Betty! the cat did a shit in the hat

Surreal

What positive outcome will there be for the women involved if the burka is banned.

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Tyche Shepherd

Without reading through the rest of this thread I'd just like to add that the wearing of the Burqha in France is extremely rare - It's never been a strong social custom amongst North Africans who's descendants make up much of French Muslims , Whilst still rare , it is more common in some British communities than in France. I understand that a very large proportion of current wearers in France tend to be women of european descent who have converted to Islam.

Personally I find legislating to forbid a style of dress is a dangerous step, no matter for what right reasons the legislation is made. Education and Social Support are much better ways of bringing about social change than placing restrictions on people.

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Richie Waves

They'll get a lovely tan for starts!

Hypatia Callisto

There is no positive outcome either way. *shrug*

France is just drawing a line in the sand. I can't say I blame them.

Hypatia Callisto

I have yet to see a single woman in my town wearing one in the entire ten years I have lived in it, and there's a full quarter of the town that is Turkish. Lots of Muslim women in the usual hijab and coat. Nothing wrong with that, and it's what one sees 99 percent of the time.

I did see women wearing full abaya and niqab in Hamburg, but they had a very radical sect of Islam in a certain section there. (some of them provided support for the 911 bombers *shrug*)

Less tolerance for that down in Bavaria.

While I agree with you, I think it's important to stress that France has a particular culture that puts the citizen first.

Surreal

I don't blame them either, but I don't think it should be confused with "we're doing this for the women so they can be liberated" as some seem to think in this thread.

CaleVinson

Drawing a line against what, precisely?

If an article of clothing is worn voluntarily, how does banning that piece of clothing "put citizens first"?

And if its not worn voluntarily (in a country like France I mean), shouldn't we treat the cause (that power is being unfairly directed at the women concerned) rather than the symptom?

Hypatia Callisto

Drawing a line against ultraorthodoxy, which preaches worldwide domination of Islam. That's pretty much saying, no more France. I can see why France doesn't agree with that.



Erm, compare France to Saudi Arabia and draw your own conclusions there

I can't even travel to Saudi Arabia while France hasn't even got a border with Germany, I can drive right over it. France is a very open society in comparison.

Even Egypt when I visited there, is a police state. Checkpoints and police everywhere, and even more so when a state visit is scheduled. It was positively creepy when I arrived the same day Condi Rice was due in on a state visit. Police every three meters. You'll never see that in France.

Well, you could choose the option that Dan Dennett espouses, teaching all children about all the religions in school, just the facts, but I suspect that all the ultraorthodox kids will be drawn out of school then, even the male ones


I'm sorry, but I don't recognise the right of people to stop half their population from freedom of speech simply due to their sex, maim little girls going to school, kill cartoonists and filmmakers who disagreed with them, hang gay and lesbians for loving someone, or blow up buildings while killing a couple thousand of people in the name of their religion, and I feel no remorse discriminating against people who do believe in these things.

I do believe in trying to understand why people believe in these things though. But I will never agree to it.

Hypatia Callisto

damn the lag in this forum right now, is there a denial of service going on? I could barely post my last post. So if my replies are sparse, don't take it as agreement, just assume I got tired of the lag while posting a reply.

Joshua Nightshade

It's loading okay for me? o_0

For once.