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**Bard Jameson** · 04-22-2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip Midnight

I'd "accidentally" try and put my elbow through your ribcage.

Oh hey - You didn't say what happened after you solicited the guy for a drink. Did he punch you out, or buy you that drink?

You cad, you

Joshua Nightshade · 04-22-2009, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip Midnight

I'd "accidentally" try and put my elbow through your ribcage.

A few weeks ago at the bar the guy sitting next to me surrendered his bar stool to a woman he was having a drink with. Kudos to him for that, but he then proceeded to wedge himself between her and I and his ass was basically in my lap. There was room on the other side of her and they both could have moved down a bit, and I'd even have been willing to let him have my stool if he'd asked. I nudged him just to make him aware that there was someone RIGHT THERE behind him, but he was oblivious, so I elbowed him a little harder. Oblivious. So finally I outright shoved the fucker and said "look dude, if you want to sit in my lap you had better at least buy me a drink first." Inconsiderate twat. There's a big difference between someone invading your space because they simply have no choice and someone who does it because they don't give a shit about anyone but themself.

I have had that happen CONSTANTLY.

Including one evening in New Orleans where Adam and I were making out at the bar (because the bartender wanted to watch

) and this guy next to us put his hand on my crotch twice before I finally told him to fuck off.

Though I suppose that's a little different.

Adam Zaius · 04-22-2009, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

I have had that happen CONSTANTLY.

Including one evening in New Orleans where Adam and I were making out at the bar (because the bartender wanted to watch

) and this guy next to us put his hand on my crotch twice before I finally told him to fuck off.

Though I suppose that's a little different.

Is it wrong that I only have vague memories of that 3 week period?

Joshua Nightshade · 04-22-2009, 01:52 AM

It's expected behavior for New Orleans.

Chip Midnight · 04-22-2009, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bard Jameson

Oh hey - You didn't say what happened after you solicited the guy for a drink. Did he punch you out, or buy you that drink?

You cad, you

He turned around and glared at me and then went right back to what he was doing without moving an inch. I was considering my next move which likely would have involved me setting him on fire or something when the bartender (bless her) offered me another stool elsewhere.

RandoymRandt · 04-22-2009, 05:17 AM

Thinner is better to curb global warming, study says - CNN.com

Merovigan · 04-22-2009, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivianne Draper

yes. you are supposed to treat her differently because she cannot hear. if you are speaking directly to her you should face her so she can read your lips. tty devices are expensive. she prolly doesn't have one. point me to the united page where it has instructions on texting for the deaf?

why are you being so mean?

I'm not being mean intentionally, and I think threads about people's weight brings out the "Sensitivity" in some. You especially.

But about the deaf thing, I really meant no offense, I just am flabbergasted that being deaf would present an obstacle to gathering information, especially in the twenty first century. She repeatedly mentioned that the information was not on the website, as if the company's primary information vehicle was its website. It was my mistake in arguing the point, and I should have handled it differently.

I also felt like Arilyn was being intentionally obtuse about finding the information about weight - I really didn't think it's very difficult to find.

Merovigan · 04-22-2009, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colette Meiji

There is something insanely ironic about someone who refused to read the entire thread, saying people are lazy for not reading 50 page carriage documents.

Yep.

Reading your contract before purchasing tickets is exactly like reading threads on the internet.

At least to some people.

Merovigan · 04-22-2009, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bard Jameson

/envisions himself in a center seat on a flight between Neko and Mero.

I'm not huge, but I'm tall and wide enough that, if I work at it, I could encroach on both of them. Then I would fart uncontrollably, and nudge Mero with my elbow.

And wait for either of them to say anything.

/Wonders how it would turn out

I'd draw cartoons on your elbow.

It would be an awesome flight.

Merovigan · 04-22-2009, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivianne Draper

I think talking to your cat would be both more useful and more fun at this point.

But srsly if he won't read the thread I'm not seeing any reason to debate this with him. I'm not going to repeat myself just cause Mero wants to be lazy.

I have no interest in debating it with you. It would be like you debating cheating at internet video games with me.

There's no point because there's only one conclusion I'm ok with.

Merovigan · 04-22-2009, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

So far, your arguments are specious.

Just out of curiosity, I called United today and spoke to a reservation agent about a flight to NYC. I asked what the dimensions of the seat were and they weren't able to tell me because they don't guarantee the particular plane style and therefore, can't tell you which seat size of several you'll encounter.

The only way to tell if you can't put the armrests down is to get on the plane and try it.

See, no need for debate - flying is hard when you're obese.

Got it.

Thanks for the effort on this, Surreal!

Persephone Milk · 04-22-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

I'm not being mean intentionally, and I think threads about people's weight brings out the "Sensitivity" in some. You especially.

But about the deaf thing, I really meant no offense, I just am flabbergasted that being deaf would present an obstacle to gathering information, especially in the twenty first century. She repeatedly mentioned that the information was not on the website, as if the company's primary information vehicle was its website. It was my mistake in arguing the point, and I should have handled it differently.

I also felt like Arilyn was being intentionally obtuse about finding the information about weight - I really didn't think it's very difficult to find.

You're doing it wrong.

The words you were looking for are "I'm sorry."

Merovigan · 04-22-2009, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Persephone Milk

You're doing it wrong.

The words you were looking for are "I'm sorry."

I should have handled it differently.

Merovigan · 04-22-2009, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surreal Farber

I should get bonus point for not calling a particular person in this thread an oozing cunt...

You should get something.

I'm not sure if it's bonus points but...something.

Merovigan · 04-22-2009, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie Waves

Looks like it's time for cheese burger partys across the US..

Seriously though, there's fat and there's FAT... I agree the FAT people should pay more... everyone has to pay more for extra luggage.

Joshua Nightshade · 04-22-2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

I should have handled it differently.

SOMEONE MARK IT ON THE CALENDAR, THIS IS AS CLOSE AS WE'LL EVER GET.

Ewan Took · 04-22-2009, 07:41 AM

Ryanair considers 'fat tax' for obese air passengers - Telegraph

But then you deserve it if you choose to fly Ryanair.

Arilynn · 04-22-2009, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

I also felt like Arilyn was being intentionally obtuse about finding the information about weight - I really didn't think it's very difficult to find.

What information am I being obtuse about? I was saying that United should provide seat and seatbelt measurements so people can determine whether this policy might affect them. You first suggested that the information was available in the contract of carriage and then by phone from United. But seat and seatbelt measurements aren't provided:

- anywhere on United's website;
- anywhere in United's contract of carriage; or
- to Surreal when she called and asked United.

Merovigan · 04-22-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilynn

What information am I being obtuse about? I was saying that United should provide seat and seatbelt measurements so people can determine whether this policy might affect them.

Not about this, and you were saying more than just this. This I agree with but, as Surreal pointed out, it's simply not possible because there is no way to predict what sort of plane you'll be on. I don't disagree with you on this point - United could do more to inform their customers and perhaps saying "Our seats range from X to Y" is something they "should" do.

Personally, I think it's best to NOT say that because it's not the company's strong point. "We have really small seats" is not something I'd want up in lights. I realize that some of their customers will be surprised by the smallness of the seats, but in all businesses there's a class of customers that feel as if the company doesn't do enough to meet their needs. This is not new, nor limited to the obese. It's business reality.

What I do disagree with is the NEED to inform them - if you're going to trip up on this policy, you should know it. If you don't, then I think you deserve whatever embarrassment comes your way because you obviously need a wake-up call.If you knew it and gambled, and lost, that was a "you" decision, not a "them" decision. This goes for being too fat as well as for being a stinky smoker or for any other reason you can get booted from a plane.

Quote:

You first suggested that the information was available in the contract of carriage and then by phone from United. But seat and seatbelt measurements aren't provided:

You're absolutely right, Arilynn, and if this was all you were trying to say then we agree - they could do more.

But, they don't have to. You can judge them for it, as you should, but there's no law. There's no rule or regulation. It would be nice; but it's not required. And when a company has to choose between what's required, and what they "should" do, they tend to base their decisions on profit.

Say what you will, but surely we can agree that this is a profitable decision, at least in the short-term? Perhaps it will have long-term costs but this decision seems to be all about increasing profit - which is exactly what businesses are supposed to do.

Arilynn · 04-22-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

Not about this, and you were saying more than just this. This I agree with but, as Surreal pointed out, it's simply not possible because there is no way to predict what sort of plane you'll be on. I don't disagree with you on this point - United could do more to inform their customers and perhaps saying "Our seats range from X to Y" is something they "should" do.

Personally, I think it's best to NOT say that because it's not the company's strong point. "We have really small seats" is not something I'd want up in lights. I realize that some of their customers will be surprised by the smallness of the seats, but in all businesses there's a class of customers that feel as if the company doesn't do enough to meet their needs. This is not new, nor limited to the obese. It's business reality.

What I do disagree with is the NEED to inform them - if you're going to trip up on this policy, you should know it. If you don't, then I think you deserve whatever embarrassment comes your way because you obviously need a wake-up call.If you knew it and gambled, and lost, that was a "you" decision, not a "them" decision. This goes for being too fat as well as for being a stinky smoker or for any other reason you can get booted from a plane.

You're absolutely right, Arilynn, and if this was all you were trying to say then we agree - they could do more.

But, they don't have to. You can judge them for it, as you should, but there's no law. There's no rule or regulation. It would be nice; but it's not required. And when a company has to choose between what's required, and what they "should" do, they tend to base their decisions on profit.

Say what you will, but surely we can agree that this is a profitable decision, at least in the short-term? Perhaps it will have long-term costs but this decision seems to be all about increasing profit - which is exactly what businesses are supposed to do.

So you can't support your statement that "I also felt like Arilyn was being intentionally obtuse about finding the information about weight - I really didn't think it's very difficult to find."? Ok.

**Io Zeno** · 04-22-2009, 09:02 AM

I think the seating getting smaller is about profit and the reaction to complaints is the cop-out, they don't want to make the seats bigger and make less money, they want larger people to buy and extra seat or more expensive seats like business class. This creates a win-win for them, in terms of money and at the expense of their customers.

You may please some customers and piss off a bunch of others.

When a company is only about profit and not customer service they will lose the very customers they are making money from, Mero.

**Io Zeno** · 04-22-2009, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilynn

So you can't support your statement that "I also felt like Arilyn was being intentionally obtuse about finding the information about weight - I really didn't think it's very difficult to find."? Ok.

Mero was wrong and he apologizes.

DON'T YOU MERO?

**Sarah Nerd** · 04-22-2009, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

What I do disagree with is the NEED to inform them - if you're going to trip up on this policy, you should know it. If you don't, then I think you deserve whatever embarrassment comes your way because you obviously need a wake-up call.

Yes there's no fuzzy room here. Even if you have never flown, or haven't flown in a long time you should just "know" if you will or will not fit into the ever shrinking plane seats.

Merovigan · 04-22-2009, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilynn

So you can't support your statement that "I also felt like Arilyn was being intentionally obtuse about finding the information about weight - I really didn't think it's very difficult to find."? Ok.

Well at least I'm getting better at seeing this sort of post coming. I had a hunch you'd go this direction with it. When I was writing the last post I had to decide if I was going to let myself get caught in the "Defend the one-off statement" game. Obviously I decided against it because it seems like a no-win situation.

Now I need to work on not getting into that spot to begin with.

Arilynn · 04-22-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan

Well at least I'm getting better at seeing this sort of post coming. I had a hunch you'd go this direction with it. When I was writing the last post I had to decide if I was going to let myself get caught in the "Defend the one-off statement" game. Obviously I decided against it because it seems like a no-win situation.

Now I need to work on not getting into that spot to begin with.

Here's a hint on how not to get into that spot: Don't make insulting accusations, such as saying someone was being intentionally obtuse, unless you can back it up. It's not difficult.

04-22-2009, 07:41 AM	#817 (permalink)
Ewan Took watch out for that..... ............ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ......... Posts: 2,983	Ryanair considers 'fat tax' for obese air passengers - Telegraph But then you deserve it if you choose to fly Ryanair. __________________ "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."

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04-22-2009, 01:52 AM	#804 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	It's expected behavior for New Orleans.

04-22-2009, 05:17 AM	#806 (permalink)
RandoymRandt Senior Member Consumable Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: AU Posts: 3,411 My Mood: SL Join Date: Originally June 5, 2007	Thinner is better to curb global warming, study says - CNN.com

04-22-2009, 09:02 AM	#821 (permalink)
Io Zeno Meh SLU Supporter Stoking the fires of Hell Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 17,182 My Mood: Blog Entries: 1 Awards: 1	I think the seating getting smaller is about profit and the reaction to complaints is the cop-out, they don't want to make the seats bigger and make less money, they want larger people to buy and extra seat or more expensive seats like business class. This creates a win-win for them, in terms of money and at the expense of their customers. You may please some customers and piss off a bunch of others. When a company is only about profit and not customer service they will lose the very customers they are making money from, Mero.

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