Colette Meiji

DO you not see the problem with your statement?

Let me translate how it comes across in the cold realm of text.

"I insulted people, but I left myself an out"

Hint #1.. if see that you have to leave yourself room for exceptions, you should re-evaluate how you are going to say something.

Otherwise you should take your lumps, since you should have known they were coming.

Ill take Dancien or Surreal any day over you. They let you know where you stand without playing games. And if they are going to insult you they just do it, they don't try to stealth insult you.

Hint #2: if you say something to the effect of - *if my comment didn't apply directly to you, then you shouldn't feel insulted* you are stealth insulting people.

Surreal

When I read debates over smoking, I'm often confused about how smokers react. I used to think overreact, until I realized that if you've been the target of a particular prejudice for any length of time, your "ear" for "some of my best friends are fat" and "I mean those other lazy fat people, not you" gets sensitized.

Bias is a range. One of the hand we have A Neko, which is frankly refreshing sometimes. On the other we have people who keep bogging down on "fat person stealing my space" which frankly is just a misdirection game by the airlines since they're the ones stealing your seat.

You can think that sensitized = oversensitive, but if that's the case, where's the denigration towards the other kinds of folks who take over your seat?

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Surreal

You have deeply offended me and I'm not sharing my leftover pizza with you.

Surreal

Nah.. I simply mean sometimes, I like my hate straight-up.

Colette Meiji

um Chip ..newsflash .. SLU has a large population of 30-50 year old women.

Did you not consider the fact that we probably have expanding waistlines and are not necessarily happy about it before now?

Willow Matthews

/me attempts to derail thread.

What about those people that won't stop TALKING the whole time?
I can understand the person that is terrified of flying and needs to yack about it, but the person that just sits and yack yack yacks for no reason?

I say charge them double or at least let us shoot them.

Joshua Nightshade

Don't judge me, I have rights too.

Sonja Aeghin

They're called earplugs. Find a really good set. But I hear ya. I had to put up with it on my last flight.

Chip Midnight

What particularly about the smoking issue? It seems that most of the smokers here agree with public smoking bans, but just think they go too far by not allowing for any smoking clubs. I doubt you'll find a smoker here who blames anyone but themselves for their habit. If/when I die of smoking related illness that'll be all on me. But on this issue it seems you can't suggest that anyone's weight problems (in general, not aimed at anyone specific in the thread), might be the result of their own choices without being accused of being a clueless prejudiced bigot, in a quite rude and dismissive way. Smokers apparently are awful stinky disgusting people that no one should ever have to smell. That's fine, apparently, but suggest that having someone next to you that encroaches on your seat space in an airplane is uncomfortable, and not really fair to that passenger, and you're a right bastard. That's not exactly rational. Sorry.

Quantum Destiny

Shhh.

Chip Midnight

Mostly I expect this crowd to be capable of rational discussion about sensitive subjects.

Surreal

My example was knees. That's because I've spent many a flight with the person behind me knees pressed so hard into my chair back that it was intensely uncomfortable. I don't see any backlash against people over 6' - although they're dealing with the exact same issue... less space.

Sonja Aeghin

Capable, perhaps, but not necessarily having the will. This is to me the 9th circle of forum hell

Surreal

Quoted separately to ensure clarity. I was using smoking as an example you might understand since you're a smoker when talking about subtle jabs and stealth bigotry.

• I don't know if you've noticed, but I tend to stay out of those discussions - for three reasons
• I doubt I've smoked a pack in my lifetime, so I really don't know what the addiction is like.
• Its obvious to me that smokers get a lot more shit than they should simply because they've become an acceptable target
• I recognize that this is an intimate personal issue for many of the posters involved and I'm going to steer widely clear to be considerate of their concerns.

Chip Midnight

If the airlines did something about that, like had tall seating that cost more and anyone over a certain height had to use it, would you support that? I'd be okay with it and I'm tall enough that I have to scrunch to avoid putting pressure on the seat in front of me. Same issue really, and people definitely can't lose height. I think the airlines should endeavor to make all of their passengers comfortable. This isn't the best way to go about it for sure but I can understand the reasoning.

Chip Midnight

Totally agree with all of that, and prejudice against weight is undeniable and truly lame, but this is the first time I've ever heard of a policy anywhere that puts special demands on the obese.

eku Zhong

the other night i went on a YouTube binge and watched a bunch of animal rights videos...
its all the chicken's fault... on many levels.

Chicken.. the once thought to be 'healthier meat', high in Omega 3 fatty acids (i might be talking out my arse here .. my mental altitude was higher than average when i was watching) and low in cholestrol... now has 80% more fat than ever and 80% less Omega fatty acids... chicken now makes you dumb and fat.

but anyway you look at it... smoking.. over eating... although they are both personal choices (personally i am a smoker of various substances and a some-time over eater of certain other various substances... particularly partial to custard.. not for smoking though) are originally someone else's fault.. as is everything bad in life...

just find someone/something to blame and you'll feel better. =^.^=

PS if you get really really freaked out by nicotine deprivation on long international flights.. fly Air France.. they have a secret little room (or they used to)

PPS i have always wondered why airline food gives you constipation.. but in restrospect it makes sense... i think they put something in it to keep you 'contained'... i mean, the onboard tanks can only hold so much.

Surreal

Well then, let's look at the arguments. We have one side posting lots of links to back up their assertions that there are mitigating factors. The other side just keeps reiterating that fat people are into blaming.

We have a couple of folks who have overshared the impact of illness, injury and drugs. Then we have the person who thinks they rock because they can lose 40 lbs.

If Arilynn and I were squaring off on this, I would have presented by experience. If she disagreed, she would have said "I'm so sorry you're having that experience, I agree that really sucks" Then she would have posted a link backing up her claim about the "other fat people."

That's how rational discussions here progress... which is why I call shenanigans on a couple of folks.

Surreal

I understand their need to find ways to make money in the face of steeply rising fuel prices and aging fleets.

But as I've said several times... they need to post their criteria if they're going to do something like this. Otherwise, we can have A Neko as the gatekeeper for our homewards flight.

Colette Meiji

I actually don't have an issue with the "if you cant fit in one seat there may be problems" part

People shouldn't have to share their seat with the person next to them.

My objections were entirely regarding the discrimination and insults.

-----------

I stuck up for smoker's rights in a recent thread already. And I don't smoke.

Surreal

Not for lack of trying. Just one example.

Mississippi May Ban Restaurant Sales to the Obese

Chip Midnight

Fair enough, but that brings up a question. Completely objectively speaking do you think for most very heavy people it's not something they can do anything about? I don't doubt that that's true for a great many people, but all? Most? Just some? Nothing I've ever read on the subject has given me the impression that it's most, but it's not a subject I've specifically researched.

Chip Midnight

Now THAT is unmitigated bullshit. Adults should be free to make their own choices, even if they're bad ones.

Colette Meiji

wow that isn't right.

The airline at least, owns the damn airplanes, so they are making a business decision with their own planes.

Not only that but wow could it make life difficult for some people.

I traveled quite a bit for work for 2 years. If this ban had existed in Indiana I'd have had a very hard time.

Fmeh

Jezus fucking christ! That's insane!

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