Trout Recreant

More Tickets in Hard Times - MSN Autos

Cliff Notes: Police forces are beginning to openly consider traffic tickets a revenue enhancer rather than a punitive measure and a form of law enforcement.

I know this has gone on forever, but the fact of the matter is, that until recently, it was denied, and the vast majority of jurisdictions had a "no quota" policy - regardless of the fact that there may have been unwritten quotas. There was a recognition that the police should not be seen as having a conflict of interest between enforcing the law and raising revenue.

Apparently, the shift is now away from enforcing the law and towards raising revenue. It is understatement to call this bad policy. It's shameful.

Gigs

Related: More data is coming out that Red Light cameras are not profitable unless yellow lengths are reduced below engineering recommendations. Which more and more cities keep getting caught doing.

This, combined with other studies that show a 1 second longer yellow decreases collisions at an intersection by 40% means that governments are literally hurting and killing people in order to increase revenues.

I'm a member of the NMA, which seeks to make traffic enforcement about safety instead of about revenue. We don't need to kill people to collect taxes.

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jacqueline trudeau

Parking tickets have always been huge source of revenue for NYC. Why do you think they have those confusing, misleading signs?

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Trout Recreant

I could have sworn that the yellow lights in the next town over, have decreased substantially, but hadn't made the connection between that and their installation of red light cameras. It all makes sense now. The way those things are timed, if the light turns yellow, you either lock up the brakes and slide to a stop, or you blow the red light. There is no way to make it through a yellow safely, and with those damned cameras, i feel like I'm trying to sneak across the DMZ every time I drive through town.


I'll bet those bastards decreased the yellow lights so they could hand out more camera tickets.

Gigs

Most states require localities to follow engineering guidelines which are often codified into law by reference. If you time the lights and they are short, you can probably raise a fuss about them not following state law.

Trout Recreant

If I had any time on my hands, I would be tempted to do that, just to be obnoxious. I hate photo radar and photo red light cameras more than anything else they do for traffic control. I don't like hidden speed traps, but there at least they have the decency to send an actual cop over to give you the ticket.

mcgeeb Gupte

WTF, timed red light cameras for tickets? How does that work in the winter when you ain't stopping for shit in the snow and ice?

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Gigs

One of the issues is that they do give tickets to people stuck in the intersection.

mcgeeb Gupte

I hope we never see them around here. There has been times where I have tried to stop for that yellow light (turning red). With the snow and ice I couldn't, so I thought it would be safest to keep going through.

I like what they are doing in our town recently. We currently are now up to about 5 Round Abouts. Or whatever they are called. We didn't have them a few years ago. No need to worry about yellow/red lights or even those terrible 4 way stops that no one ever seems to know when its their turn to go.

Mocksoup Graves

*coughs*

http://www.phantomplate.com/


Excuse me, I had a tickle in my throat.

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Gigs

On a local level, your voice is more powerful. Try to keep an eye on local events and speak out against them if they get proposed (or installed without discussions!).

Merovigan

Does this mean that organizations like MAAD are terrorists, now? I mean, the fewer people who drink and drive, the lower the income for the police, the faster your county goes bankrupt...

OMG!!! The terrorists are trying to bankrupt us through good driving and responsibility!

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Roxie Marten

This is not news. I used to work with truck drivers who call the cops "armed tax collectors"

I got a ticket 3 years ago, first ticket I had gotten in years. He told me they are not allowed to write warnings anymore because "Jenny needs the money" Jenny being our governor

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"I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else"


Something has changed within me
Something is not the same
I'm through with playing by the rules
Of someone else's game
Too late for second-guessing
Too late to go back to sleep
It's time to trust my instincts
Close my eyes and leap

It's time to try
Defying gravity
I think I'll try
Defying gravity
And you can't pull me down...

jacqueline trudeau

Exactly. No one here's never been nabbed at the classic "speed trap" that you pass though close to every rural town center?

Move along... Or speed along, if you dare ... nothing to see here

Gigs

Not terrorists, but they do support checkpoints that are barely constitutional fishing expeditions.

Richie Waves

two penalty points on your license here if you are stopped in hatched yellow markings.

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Merovigan

[sarcasm]
Well, nothing excuses the suspension of constitutional rights like a mother's grief over a lost child/loved one. I mean, really she's got to fill the void somehow; she might as well spend it stripping the rest of us of whatever rights she can.
[/sarcasm]

Trout Recreant

You get a ticket.

That's one of the reasons I hate them. They don't have any sort of way to distinguish. When you get pulled over by the police, at least you have a chance to make your case that you were doing the safer thing by going through the yellow and you just caught the tail end of the red. With these things, you could be sliding sideways on the ice trying to stop and you would get a ticket. Or, choose to lock up your brakes and cause a 15 car pile-up behind you, and there's no ticket because you stopped in time.

They almost encourage unsafe driving because you have to stop at all costs to avoid the ticket, rather than use your judgment and take the safest course of action.

Plus, I think I can fashion an argument that they violate the due process clause of the Constitution. It would never go anywhere, but I'm pretty sure I could make it sound good.

Gigs

In localities where you must pay a court fee often higher than the ticket just to have the case heard by an actual judge... you might actually get somewhere with that.

Trout Recreant

Probably. I was thinking of it this way:

When you are pulled over by a police officer, you are given an informal administrative hearing, as that term is defined in the Administrative Procedures Act. Most people don't think of it that way, but that's what it is. By using photo radar and photo red light sensors, they are denying you the administrative hearing you had before. When you take away someone's right to an administrative hearing, potentially, you are not only violating the APA, but you are also denying them due process.

Like I said, it's a stretch, and it is pure theory - nobody that I'm aware of has actually put this in front of a court with the authority to make Constitutional determinations. You would spend $70,000 to fight a $90 ticket, so it's not exactly a practical move. I have nothing to back it up. But if I got one of these tickets, I might float the theory just to see what happened. Academically, the response would be interesting, but ultimately, I don't think the result would be good.

Roxie Marten

I could not remember the town when I posted my reply.

Macks Creek Mo went bankrupt after the state shut down their speed trap

CJ Online National News: Caught in a trap: When ticket writing stopped, Missouri town went broke 07/17/98

Gigs

I just remembered about these guys:

TruthNews.us » Blog Archive » National Anti-Radar Front Blows Up French Speed Cameras

Trout Recreant

Terrorism - You're doing it wrong!

As much as I hate speed traps, these guys just seem too nutty to believe.

They're all over the place! Come on guys, try to focus a little.



FOUR...MILLION...EUROS!

Xiomara Mendes

I've got to do some research and get the links, but I was reading at work yesterday about how in one city (Austin? Atlanta? I forgot), a bunch of red light tickets were overturned when the photos proved that the red and the yellow lights were displayed at the same time.

Also, in Fairfax County VA, the yellow lights were shortened by one second three days after the cameras were installed at the traffic lights.

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Merovigan

I live in Fairfax; I'm pretty sure they've disconnected the traffic light cameras here. We've got one of those feisty populations who do things like write letters, make phone calls, and actually show up in court to fight bullshit.

We rule or, as our facebook says "We're from the 703, so that kind of makes us a big deal."

PS - crap, did research and it looks like the cameras are going BACK UP. Fuck you very much, Virginia's government.

FUNNY!