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**Cristiano** · 01-18-2009, 10:05 AM

So the EU is once again going after big bad Microsoft, responding to a complaint by Opera Software that including a web browser in Windows hurts competition. They are investigating Microsoft for anti-trust violations for including Internet Explorer with Windows. I'm sure some ridiculous fine will certainly follow.

EU regulating Microsoft like it's 1999 | Microsoft - CNET News

Here we go again. Never mind that anyone can download and use whatever browser they want, or that other OSes include browsers as well. Firefox has not had to resort to cheap legal tactics to try to compete - Opera is just pissed that no matter what they do, their browser remains a niche product.

Dancien Graves · 01-18-2009, 10:09 AM

Dear Opera,

Make a better browser and then maybe people will start using it again k?

Lewis Luminos · 01-18-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dancien Graves

Dear Opera,

Make a better browser and then maybe people will start using it again k?

I used Opera for ages. I stopped when it stopped being better than everything else.

Joshua Nightshade · 01-18-2009, 10:33 AM

I never saw the appeal of Opera.

I really dislike IE though, especially coming from a web development background. I like Firefox.

Harvey Swenson · 01-18-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dancien Graves

Dear Opera,

Make a better browser and then maybe people will start using it again k?

Their windows mobile browser is pretty good but firefox owns the desktop and IE basically sucks in all it's variants.

I tend to think the case is a bit pointless considering the take up of firefox.

CaleVinson · 01-18-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

So the EU is once again going after big bad Microsoft, responding to a complaint by Opera Software that including a web browser in Windows hurts competition. They are investigating Microsoft for anti-trust violations for including Internet Explorer with Windows. I'm sure some ridiculous fine will certainly follow.

EU regulating Microsoft like it's 1999 | Microsoft - CNET News

Here we go again. Never mind that anyone can download and use whatever browser they want, or that other OSes include browsers as well. Firefox has not had to resort to cheap legal tactics to try to compete - Opera is just pissed that no matter what they do, their browser remains a niche product.

This is awful, just awful.

How could the EU go after Microsoft, a company with a proud tradition of competing on the quality of its software alone? Has it really got to the point where those godless-commies at the EU are willing to vindictively assault the company that gave us PageUp and PageDown keys !!!!!!11111!!!!!!! :

Quote:

Microsoft has been granted a patent on 'Page Up' and 'Page Down' keystrokes.

The software giant applied for the patent in 2005, and was granted it on August 19, 2008. US patent number 7,415,666 describes "a method and system in a document viewer for scrolling a substantially exact increment in a document, such as one page, regardless of whether the zoom is such that some, all or one page is currently being viewed".

The patent's listed 'inventors' are Timothy Sellers, Heather Grantham and Joshua Dersch. However, Page Up and Page Down keyboard buttons have been in existence for at least quarter of a century, as evidenced by this image of a 1981 IBM PC keyboard.

(Microsoft patents 'Page Up' and 'Page Down' | Tech News on ZDNet)

Eirik · 01-18-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvey Swenson

Their windows mobile browser is pretty good but firefox owns the desktop and IE basically sucks in all it's variants.

Quote:

I tend to think the case is a bit pointless considering the take up of firefox.

I think the case has the same merits as the media player case a few years back, which definitely set a precedent. (I don't know if European Law uses precedents though ... national law where I live doesn't use them, but European law is some very weird concoction which I hardly understand)

On the other hand, Microsoft could also use the results of the Media Player case in their defense. After all, they claim that they sold only about 1000 boxes of their Windows XP without Media Player, across all of Europe throughout several years. Which is pretty much 0.

Then again, my opinion is that the only reason the sales of that one were so low, is that Microsoft refused to push it. I tried buying that version and it's fucking impossible because they send you from the cupboard to the wall and back.

I think they should just make short work of these cases though and just force Microsoft to publish a stripped down version without any of the bloat. Wordpad, IE, WMP, all that shit can easily be stripped.

Or at the very least, add a fricking uninstall button to WMP and IE!

Try installing Linux. Last time I did that, I got a very nice GUI on install that asked me what I wanted to install. Just the kernel and necessary files, or if I wanted to include bloat like browsers and media players (and each time properly giving me a choice between several Opensource Browsers and several Opensource media players).

caroline ra · 01-18-2009, 10:44 AM

This strikes me as rather peculiar. Not because the EU is investigating microsoft, which it is perfectly entitled to do....
but because Opera, the company that is making the complaint is a Norwegian company and Norway isnt an EU Member State.

Eirik · 01-18-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

or that other OSes include browsers as well

IMO someone should go after Apple as well

But for some reason people choose to sue Apple under national laws instead of European laws ... I seem to recall them once being sued in France for something related to iTunes or the iPod, long time ago. And they were refused in Belgium from selling the iPhone with simlocks active (just like any other cellphone. simlocks = evil).

Eirik · 01-18-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caroline ra

This strikes me as rather peculiar. Not because the EU is investigating microsoft, which it is perfectly entitled to do....
but because Opera, the company that is making the complaint is a Norwegian company and Norway isnt an EU Member State.

The suit over Media Player was originally started by Novell, and those are based in the US.

Phoenix Psaltery · 01-18-2009, 10:52 AM

Google Chrome (or, as I have dubbed it, Google Oooooh Shiny!) FTW.

But yeah, this is like Blauplunkt suing Ford for including Philco radios in its vehicles.

P2

Joshua Nightshade · 01-18-2009, 10:52 AM

I don't really get the appeal of Chrome either, personally.

Phoenix Psaltery · 01-18-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Nightshade

I don't really get the appeal of Chrome either, personally.

It's shiny!

Well, the main advantage I see is multiprocessing. I don't normally get bogged down in one tab when a web page on another tab decides to try to monopolize the world, which constantly happens to me in Firefox, particularly since 3.0.

Click here for more.

P2

Tyche Shepherd · 01-18-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caroline ra

This strikes me as rather peculiar. Not because the EU is investigating microsoft, which it is perfectly entitled to do....
but because Opera, the company that is making the complaint is a Norwegian company and Norway isnt an EU Member State.

But it is a member of EEA EFTA and is therefore covered by the internal market part of the EU and related legislation, and thus this investigation (Iceland and Lichtenstein are also EEA EFTA members).

Richie Waves · 01-18-2009, 12:02 PM

As far as I'm concerned windows comes with a portal internet window from which you download Chrome once you install it...

caroline ra · 01-18-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyche Shepherd

But it is a member of EEA EFTA and is therefore covered by the internal market part of the EU and related legislation, and thus this investigation (Iceland and Lichtenstein are also EEA EFTA members).

Hurrah for Tyche...I KNEW youd make sense of it all.

Tyche Shepherd · 01-18-2009, 12:26 PM

Yes - Norway have taken a very pragmatic pick and mix approach to Europe - A member of the internal market but not the Eurozone, In Nato but not part of the political side of the EU

Eirik · 01-18-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyche Shepherd

Yes - Norway have taken a very pragmatic pick and mix approach to Europe - A member of the internal market but not the Eurozone, In Nato but not part of the political side of the EU

All throughout setting a great example for the other European countries that sadly isn't followed by many others.

The union has no moral right to interfere in a nation's internal politics.

Walker · 01-18-2009, 03:00 PM

I think the EU should ban IE because it's a big pile of wank that facilitates terrorists onto our desktops.

Walker · 01-18-2009, 03:01 PM

Oh, and somebody should totally start a thread with the same title, but with "EU" replaced with "US", just so we can revisit subjects like WWII, ungrateful Europeans, and good old Mr Godwin -- all within the space of ten posts.

Wildefire Walcott · 01-18-2009, 03:17 PM

Perhaps Opera should just stop sucking, then? And maybe implement the ability to properly view web sites?

**Cristiano** · 01-18-2009, 05:00 PM

Microsoft: The EU’s ATM Machine

Quote:

EU’s chief Microsoft-taxer, errr, antitrust chief, Neelie Kroes, seems determined to make a name for herself by filling the EUs coffers. But perhaps it’s time for Europe to stop looking for the Microsoft handouts, and start promoting actual capitalism within their borders. Google, Apple and Mozilla, among others (including Germany’s SAP), seem perfectly able to compete against Microsoft without crying for help every time users decline to use their products.

Those who can, do. Those who can’t apparently live in Brussels and engage in a legalized shakedown of Microsoft every couple of years.

Watch out, Google. You’re next.

Lucifer Baphomet · 01-18-2009, 05:03 PM

Now do you see why America is financing it's bailouts all wrong..

They should be suing Microsoft like the smart countries do

Richie Waves · 01-18-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristiano

Microsoft: The EU’s ATM Machine

this comment pretty much sums it up for me...

Quote:

To suggest that a $15 trillion/a economy is enriching itself by a one-time charge of a billion and change strikes me as a bit daft. Perhaps more than a bit.

The simplest explanation usually being the correct one, perhaps this could be explained by saying that the EU is a much tougher regulator and MS’ couldn’t get past them like they got past the lax American regulators, then support it by evidence of how tougher the EU has been in a number of other industries (emission, chemical toxins, gm foods, mobile providers etc).

But no, let’s go with the far-flung theory about a mighty EU vs US showdown featuring greedy evil beaurocrats, envy, jelousy, corruption… Kroes is a woman, perhaps you should’ve thrown in a love intrigue in the story as well?

Eirik · 01-18-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Psaltery

But yeah, this is like Blauplunkt suing Ford for including Philco radios in its vehicles.

Not really. You can always ask your car dealer to sell you a car without the radio, or to install another radio into it before you buy it. I've never been forced to accept a Blaupunkt radio or a Sony radio with any car ... and yes, if it came with a Sony radio I WOULD demand it to be replaced before paying for the car. (or at least get a priest to exorcise it)

Probably won't even cost you a penny extra, definitely not in the current economy where they're aching to sell cars.

Try asking Microsoft to sell you a version of Windows without extras though?

01-18-2009, 10:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Dancien Graves What? Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 6,997 My Mood: SL Join Date: 12/2006 Awards: 1	Dear Opera, Make a better browser and then maybe people will start using it again k? __________________

01-18-2009, 10:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
caroline ra Hell is other people MYOB Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Zummerzet Posts: 2,270 SL Join Date: Dec 2006	This strikes me as rather peculiar. Not because the EU is investigating microsoft, which it is perfectly entitled to do.... but because Opera, the company that is making the complaint is a Norwegian company and Norway isnt an EU Member State. __________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/tia_darcy/

01-18-2009, 10:52 AM	#11 (permalink)
Phoenix Psaltery Sansarya's Firebird Derailer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Rosebud Posts: 3,964 My Mood: SL Join Date: 02-25-2005 Business: Five59 Graphic Design	Google Chrome (or, as I have dubbed it, Google Oooooh Shiny!) FTW. But yeah, this is like Blauplunkt suing Ford for including Philco radios in its vehicles. P2 __________________ Five59 Online Graphic Design Phoenix's Plurk \| Phoenix's Flickr\| Phoenix's Rarely Updated Blog

01-18-2009, 12:02 PM	#15 (permalink)
Richie Waves Joie de vivre! Is Three apples Tall Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Between Iraq and Israel Posts: 8,949 SL Join Date: 27/06/2005	As far as I'm concerned windows comes with a portal internet window from which you download Chrome once you install it... __________________ My lastfm Oooh, Betty! the cat did a shit in the hat

01-18-2009, 03:17 PM	#21 (permalink)
Wildefire Walcott Baby Baroness Pew pew pew. Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,991 My Mood: SLShopper Ads: 4 SL Join Date: 2005.10.28 Business: Desperation Isle Estates	Perhaps Opera should just stop sucking, then? And maybe implement the ability to properly view web sites? __________________ Desperation Isle Estates: Great prices, great neighbors, great service! New Desperation Isle: The prettiest BDSM Playground and Fetish Mall in SL! Desperation Isle Productions: Scripted skyboxes for lots (and budgets) of all sizes! Wildefire Walcott's Mistressy Musings: My blog about D/s and BDSM in Second Life.

01-18-2009, 10:33 AM	#4 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	I never saw the appeal of Opera. I really dislike IE though, especially coming from a web development background. I like Firefox.

01-18-2009, 10:52 AM	#12 (permalink)
Joshua Nightshade Account Closed Unedited Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 33,567 My Mood:	I don't really get the appeal of Chrome either, personally.

01-18-2009, 12:26 PM	#17 (permalink)
Tyche Shepherd Fortuna vitrea est enjoying the victor's spoils Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK Posts: 5,396 My Mood: SL Join Date: 26th April 2007 Awards: 1	Yes - Norway have taken a very pragmatic pick and mix approach to Europe - A member of the internal market but not the Eurozone, In Nato but not part of the political side of the EU

01-18-2009, 03:00 PM	#19 (permalink)
Walker Account Closed Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10,322 Doom Rider Champion!	I think the EU should ban IE because it's a big pile of wank that facilitates terrorists onto our desktops.

01-18-2009, 03:01 PM	#20 (permalink)
Walker Account Closed Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10,322 Doom Rider Champion!	Oh, and somebody should totally start a thread with the same title, but with "EU" replaced with "US", just so we can revisit subjects like WWII, ungrateful Europeans, and good old Mr Godwin -- all within the space of ten posts.

01-18-2009, 05:03 PM	#23 (permalink)
Lucifer Baphomet Pampers Io Zenophile Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Darkmere Posts: 12,227 My Mood: Business: Radio Free Darkmere Awards: 1	Now do you see why America is financing it's bailouts all wrong.. They should be suing Microsoft like the smart countries do __________________

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