Brenda Archer

Yes.

I'd love to have the emotional, social and financial benefits of a permanent partnership. But the cultural baggage is insane. Many people are idealists of some type or another and will think you've rejected them if you don't follow their ideals. And immature people seem to be more in love with their idealized mate, then they are with each other.

Chip Midnight

It's hard to know who someone really is if they can't tell you, and it doesn't help that the cultural expectation of men is that we're supposed to suck it up, not cry, not let on that we have weaknesses, fears, insecurities, or needs. Every time I hear a woman say "I want a real man" all I can do is roll my eyes and think, no, you actually don't want a real man, because a real man has all the qualities you'd use as points against his manliness. It isn't courageous to hide emotions, fears, and insecurities. Quite the contrary. I think it's cowardly.

Lo Jacobs

Someone who walks all over other people because they can is not someone worth spending time with. I have zero tolerance for that behavior too and I stay away from people who do this (I think it hints at much deeper psychological issues. They're big red flags).

Insecurity is the scourge of all relationships. You've dated some doozies, Chip.

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Beau Perkins

Well as always I'll have to call out the part nobody wants to talk about.......

The woman who meet a guy who really they have nothing in common with, but he has the right connections, a nice bank account and fits the image she has in her head. In her little mind she can change him. She uses her putah as a tool to lure him in. Then when she realizes the guy cant be changed, she marries him anyways because then she is entitled to half of everything he owns.

I am sorry if this sounds angry. It isn't, I'm broke with a Beautiful wife so I made out. It's just that I see these types of woman everywhere around where I live. Connecticut is filled with these superficial woman.

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Carter-Madhu

You say this as if the man has no way to prevent it from happening. Last time I checked, both partners have to say "I do." If the man is marrying a woman he has nothing in common with because of the "putah," he's really no better than the woman in your scenario.

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Ingrid N

Oh, I despise women whose goal in life is marrying rich with the fury of a thousand suns, but they wouldn't exist in such numbers if there weren't rich men who are willing to marry someone who, as you said, is completely incompatible with them, just because she looks cute and makes a nice trophy wife.

Those things are business arrangements, not marriages.

Edit: one minute late .

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Malachi

Thanks all for some great food for thought. I've refrained from interjecting because I'm still quite divided on the matter.

I did read my original post to my daughter who, I'm pleased to report, enjoys the fantasy of being Bella and swept off her feet by the glorious Edward, but "I don't expect that to happen in real life, it's kind of unrealistic". She also thought Dumbledore was the most heroic figure in Potter and that Harry was "kind of tedious".

Beau Perkins

Oh these types of woman don't tend to be honest though. In their minds they will either get the guy to change as time goes on, or take half of what they are "entitled" to. The win either way.

I'm not sure if your in the US? If so you surely have to know the type I am talking about.

Lo Jacobs

You are giving women superpowers.

Beau Perkins

Malachi,

I look at it this way. I try to give my daughter very high self esteem. I don't want her to "need" anyone for any reason but happiness. No matter what we say, she is going to gravitate towards guys that treat her how she wants to be treated.

It said that daughters tend to fall for guys with qualities of their father. So I believe, if I treat my daughters with respect, understanding and treat them like the precious gifts they are. Thats what she will look for when she gets older.

Although I am prepairing for her to bring home some thuggish guys I don't approve of first just to act out in rebellion

Sophia Tantalus

I managed to escape the horse fascination as a girl-- perhaps only because my first crush (at the age of 5) was on Spock. Kirk was no challenge- who wants to be yet another woman on another planet? Nope, I wanted to be the woman who would free him from his emotional repression with my...


Thank god my development didn't stop at the hots for Spock, or I'd be destined for an emotional grinch. We get so many messages about gender roles from the moment we're born (I'd insert Free to Be You and Me clips here, but one embed is enough, no?)

In a traditional marriage both parties knew what was expected of them. In modern relationships we're writing the script from scratch. Best friend, business partner, helpmeet, therapist, lover... It takes a lot of figuring out what you want and need, what they want and need, and a lot of learning how to communicate those needs. Is it any wonder we mess it up so frequently?

Beau Perkins

Ok Lo, you can pretend it doesn't happen.....whatever. It is OK to admit sometimes woman are the slimeballs. Honestly, sometimes it really isn't the guys fault....at least not knowingly.

Just like some guys decieve some woman. It actually does happen the other way around to. Sorry to bust that bubble.

Aimee Weber

DADDY! Meet Curtis!!! Isn't he great?!

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Lo Jacobs

Excuse me? Women have faults too and I have always defended our right to be every bit as horrible as guys can be. I am disturbed by the regularity of your misogynistic posts. You're the one who consistently posts jokes at the expense of women.

Serene S.

I agree with this, Chip. It doesn't bother me in the least if my husband shows some emotion. Instead, it validates that I'm not the only one in the marriage with feelings.

I do think there are some women who are mainly interested in bad boys, but let me clarify by saying, some girl-women. I was there once, mostly because I suffered from low self-esteem and thought I didn't deserve better. I've since learned otherwise, and am mature enough to know that nice guys are good guys are good boyfriends are good husbands. Nice does not equal "wimpy" in my book. Men can be nice, good, honest men who are also strong, with their own minds. I found one and believe me, others are looking.

If a woman only wants a man who is manipulative, dominating, controlling and/or abusive, then she has a real problem. The problem isn't the nice guy she thinks she doesn't want, but why she dislikes herself so much that she thinks she wants the bad boy.

Edited to Add: There's a simple saying which completely says it all for me, and I hope one my daughter takes to heart "No boy is worth crying over, and the one who is won't make you cry"

Carter-Madhu

I am in the U.S. I know the stereotype, but not the type - I can't really say for sure that I know any women who have done this.

I'm not sure what you mean with your honesty comment. Are you saying that these women somehow dupe the men into thinking they really do have something in common when they do not? Who are these men who are smart enough to become rich zillionaires but too stupid to judge the personality and character of a woman with nice "putah"? Shouldn't they "know the type" too?

Beau Perkins

Lo, what are you refering to? THe one joke thread I made a month ago. It's humor, get over it.

Or do you not like me asking to see Io's breast? THey are lovely breast, ever see em? If you did I bet you would ask to see them a second time.

Although here I am pointing out a reality. If me pointing out the reality of some woman bothers you....I am sorry.

Beau Perkins

1.......2.......3.........(this is me waiting for the attack)

CrossingStyx

Ya, it happens both ways, but I think where she is going is that for that type of deception to work one has to want to be deceived.

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Beau Perkins

What??? That is the most insane thing I've heard. You are saying men are to smart to be decieved? We are knuckle heads.

No, some times people, both sex's are just fooled. They thought they knew someone but it turned out they did not.

Lo Jacobs

I don't care about Io's breasts, I care about your inability to take my point of view seriously. It's true I've never met a genuine gold digger. Just because I disagree with you on a certain point about women (in fact, it would help if you explained yourself better rather than accusing me of believing women to be blameless) does not mean I am wrong. It just means I disagree.

Beebo Brink

So many good points and interesting insights that I hardly know where to jump in. But it's worth noting that both men and women are capable of really bad judgment about romantic partners. For every woman who swoons at the thought of being swept off her feet by an arrogant asshole who will abuse her, there's a man agonizing about being overlooked by the shallow, insipid, twits who like the assholes. Why would you want a man like that? And why would you want a woman like that?

Like Madhu, I feel like being a lesbian makes so much of this dance of the genders unfathomable to me. I spent high school watching guys make fools of themselves over vain, arrogant girls while interesting, funny girls stood against the wall never being asked to dance and pining over the boys who didn't give them a glance. The cloud of phermones clouded everyone's brains.

I happen to find masculine men attractive, but what I consider to be masculinity is what Wilde described for Atticus Finch. A man who is confident (not arrogant), who is kind and generous without being fawning, who can be decisive without being dictatorial. I find women with these same qualties to be devastatingly attractive, and I married one because of that profile.

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Aimee Weber

So ... Jim from The Office.





*swoons in puddle of her own butterfly lust*

Beau Perkins

I did make a serious point, and I was very respectful to you honest woman while doing so. You tried writing it off with some stupid super hero comment.

I took that as you saying THAT could NEVER happen for real. Maybe you should practice what you preach and try to make a serious point to counter mine instead of one line zinger to dismiss something you dont agree with.

How about this. If you hold a grudge because of thing I have posted in the past, and do not have the ability to read what I am saying at face value. Just dont read or respond to me? I made a very valid point, no matter how unpopular it may be with some of you to admit.

badkittybeth

OMG yes!!!


my fav. Though i can honestly say, id do Dwight in a heartbeat over Jim.

Dwight is a kinky bastard.